Shopwares Machines

[metalshaper]

Wonder if anyone could help??

Was just given a Shopwares Machines inc., SM1500 benchtop CNC "Teaching" lathe. The school it came from had only the machine left ( and it had been sitting on a shelf for nearly 10 yrs! ) No software, no link card, no manuals.. basically no nuttin'! it had been removed from their inventory many years back and they finally decided it had to go.

I was in the right place?? : to have the opportunity to take it home. < not sure if it was lucky or not > I can use the lathe in a manual mode, as all the feed controls work,,, the DRO's function.. the Step motors do their thing.. it just lacks any computer link/cotrol. of course the company is LONG gone!!

Would really like to get the thing running as a CNC.. anybody have an ideas or suggestions?? and to make matters worse, I know nothing about CNC/ step contollers!!

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

 

[Tin Falcon]

If the stepper motors work you should be golden .
you will need an off the shelf PC and software
a controller board and power supply.
A gecko 540 will drive 4 small steppers and is almost plug and play.



I put this thread together for those wanting to do a cnc retrofit. http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=9787.0
Tin

 

[Tin Falcon]

a picture maybe. sounds like you have a working machine just needs input.
Tin

 

[stevehuckss396]

I'm with Tin. Pictures might help out alot.

When you say manual mode do you mean moving with buttons or do you mean cranking hand wheels?

 

[metalshaper]

I'll get some pictures taken !

the unit comes with it's own power unit. turn it on and dial up the spindle speed. When I mentioned "manual mode" that would be by jogging the motion using the buttons on the lower right of the the machine/cabinet.< no crank handles on it! > The step motors and DRO's work fine and other than some cleaning up and finding a place for it to land in my shop.. it could be turning today?? Think I just need some sort of program software and maybe an interface???

Sherline used to sell some of their lathes to companies, that turned them into small CNC units for schools. the ways look very much like a Sherline, but that doesn't mean too much I know. I've contacted the Sherline company, to see if they knew anything or could provide some suggestions < guess what??? they want picture too >

I'll post pics later tonight or on the weekend!

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

 

[Tin Falcon]

one option is to hook up a mpg (Manual Pulse generator) these emulate handles and allow you to simulate manual machining . you do not have the feel but if careful it will work fine. sounds like your controller is in place and working fine. Does this machine have a DB25 connector AKA parallel port.??
If so you should be good to go
1) select a software package
a) EMC2 free runs on Linix
http://www.linuxcnc.org/
b) turbo cnc a dos program try before you buy free download Licence is $60
http://www.dakeng.com/turbo.html
c) Mach 3 Windows base also you can download and examine for free licence $175 free upgrades.
http://www.machsupport.com/

then select a computer to run the program you choose. you will have to set up the pin assignments on any of the software packages to match what is on the machine.
Any of the above programs you can download and read the manuals without paying out the cash.

Mach 3 has add on wizards that act as conversational programing for the lathe.

 

[metalshaper]

I have some phots taken, just need to get them onto my photobucket,
so I can send them or the links.

Tim,

The machine has manual buttons, so it is a running piece of equipment. I can jog the carriage and the cross slide using the appropriate buttons on the lower right side of the case. Like the MPG I'd lack any feel, but the steps are not that fast, so with experience and care I should be able to turn something that way.

My bud found the start up video for the machine. basically a "this is this" and "that is that!" explaining from the opening of the box.. how to set the machine up to begin operating. the port is a 25pin serial port if I remember what the vid said?? I think it might talk in linux?? since these machines were typically run off of an apple type computer?? the code system is G and M, as mentioned in the video..

I'm still waiting to hear back from Sherline, as to whether or not they think the Shopware machine was based on Sherline's lathe/equipment... and what if any operating system they think it might run from?? or at least they could possibly help identify which pins are what??

then I can figure out something??

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

 

[metalshaper]

here are the links to my machine

Not the best pics :-[ but it should give you an idea!

Shopware Machines inc. SM5100 ( lil dyslexic on my earlier description )
this is how it was, when given to me..


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y181/metalshaper/P6060510.jpg
front of machine.. all CNC controls to the left and manual controls on the right
DRO's on upper back, left side

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y181/metalshaper/P6060511.jpg
shot in over the top of the bed

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y181/metalshaper/P6060512.jpg
side view of bed and carriage.. Look like a Sherline to anyone else??

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y181/metalshaper/P6060519.jpg
lower left side panel..25pin serial port <?> and cooling fan

Let me know what you think?

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

 

[Tin Falcon]

Let me know what you think?

Looks like you have a nice little CNC lathe in an enclosure.
Should be just a matter of sorting out the pin designations and hooking up a computer with a db25 parallel port .
if you want to run Mach 3 and really want to run it on a laptop you will need a smooth stepper.
But if you want to run on dos or linix you should be able to get off cheap.
IIRC that is based on the Sherline . That is actually a good thing since Sherline is still in business and supports there machines.
Tin

 

[Tin Falcon]

John (Hope it OK to call you that) the first think I would do is download and read the manuals of the three programs I mentioned. look at the computer requirements for each one . Consider witch operating system you want to work with. Consider the cost of each option. then make a decision.
From talking to folks and what I have seen the order of popularity is
1)Mach 3
2) EMC2
3) Turbo CNC
Tin

 

[metalshaper]

Tin and the gang!

Charla at Sherline confirms it is one of their lathes, at least at the core!
although none of the technicians or specialists can identify who put the rest of it together?

the lathe portion is an older 4000 series lathe. She needed to confer with a couple of other
guys, to decide it if could be upgraded to one of their CNC packages?? but doubted it would prove very cost effective. She also mentioned the idea to just bring it back to a manually operated machine by fitting it with the appropriate parts?? also for a few $$'s I would assume..

Can't say enough good things about Charla!!!! She has done quite a bit for me, trying to help figure this out. if nothing else, Sherline's customer service is one of the best,, from my experience anyway!!

Now, that doesn't mean I'm done with the CNC idea, I just need to figure a 'way around'. I guess I need to research port connections/wiring systems, to see if I can figure out how the 25 pin port is configured??.. or a way to test them?? this is certainly proving to be a Learning experience! :big:
I appreciate the help and need to take some closer looks at the op systems Tin Falcon mentioned in his messages..

and yeah, calling me Jon is fine!!

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

 

[Tin Falcon]

John do not let all those 25 pins intimidate you the mach 3 manual explains the basic breakdown of the parallel port.
Also in my experience with have cnc and as a scale mechanic most printed circuit bards have connection points labeled.
each motor will have a step and direction pin if lucky the dros may each have a pin out. You have a working machine so be careful not to damage anything.
The other thing with older electronics is get a can of canned air electronics cleaner and clean the breakout board and power supply. Crud can do funny things.
As far as a Sherline cnc upgrade. The would likely sell you a computer pre loaded with linux of some verion and EMC2.
Where are you located. Pm me with a phone #

Tin

 

[Admiral_dk]

Hi John

You can check what kind of interface you got, if you have a voltmeter and a bit of knowledge about how to use it.

Start by connecting the common (aka minus) to the chassis of the unpowered CNC.

If your meter has a continuity test - try and locate the ground pins (you might be unlucky - no connection between chassis and ground, but not likely). If the ground pins are something like 1 and 7 => it's most likely a serial RS232 - If they are pin 20 to 25 => chances are it's a Parallel Printer port. Few programs will work with the former and most with the later.

If you only are able to measure voltage, check it on all pins. Old RS232 ports had the (used) pins at +12 volts or -12 volts - never RS232 runs at lower voltages, but are still using both positive and negative voltages. The Parallel Port have all it's pins between zero and +5 volts (or with the wrong Common connection on the meter - Zero to -5 Volts).

This should certainly point you in the right direction.

Best wishes.

Per

 

[metalshaper]

DK and Tin,

Thanks to you both!! I'll be opening the back of the case in the next night or two! IF I'm lucky?? there might be a diagram attached to the panel?? if not, I'll at least be able to see the board(s) and do some tracing.. I'll also check the port/pins and report back!!

Appreciate all the help! :bow:

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

 

[n4zou]

I think this machine is setup to operate from a standard parallel printer port. I could be very wrong of course but I would open up the case an look at the control circuits. The simple and thus best way to design one of these machines is to put the stepper motor driver circuits in the machine along with an optic isolator hooked up to the port connector to protect the computer and the stepper motor driver circuits. The stepper motor driver circuits only need 2 of the 8 parallel lines for each stepper motor. This allows 4 stepper motors to be controlled from a single parallel port. A few other lines available on the port could be attached to position indicator switches on the stepper motors. These would only be used when starting the machine up when it calibrates itself. The DRO readings are most likely calculated in the software. This machine may run simply by hooking it up to the parallel (printer) port and setting up EMC2 for it.

 

[metalshaper]

Guys,

here is the latest! took the back panel off and looked at the 25 pin port from the inside.
this is what I found -- based on what I could find concerning pin configurations??

black wire to the #2 pin -data0
Red wire to the #3 pin -data1
Jumper from pin #4 to pin #5
White wire to #6 pin - data4
with a jumper line from #6 to the #8 pin data6
Green wire to #7 -data5
orange wire to #20 - ground ( if I'm not mistaken?? )

pic of the port in position from the back
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y181/metalshaper/P6080513.jpg

main computer board for the CNC operation?? <The 5 wires come in at the lil port top left of pic>
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y181/metalshaper/P6080519.jpg

Not sure what these are ?? these are off the main board but are tied in lower of previous photo!
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y181/metalshaper/P6080520.jpg

 

[Tin Falcon]

well if you have 4 data in and a ground the data should be a step and direction for each motor
The things on the bottom are are resistors. Large ones but resistors.
Tin

 

[Tin Falcon]

John:
Here is another suggestion download one of the CNC programs. one that will run on a computer you have.
set it up to output on one pin then try to jog through the computer. both x and y. if you are inputting to a direction input nothing will happen if it is a step pin a motor should turn . once you figure out witch ones are the step pins and which ones are direction then you need to figure out what pairs are together. then you should be in business.
you do not need an input on the direction pin for a motor to run. one direction will be active high and the other active low ie +5v logic or 0v logic 1 or 0 once you decipher you pinout this is an easy software switch.
Hope this helps
Tin

 

[DICKEYBIRD]

Can you post a closeup picture of the text shown in the upper right of picture #2:

main computer board for the CNC operation?? <The 5 wires come in at the lil port top left of pic>
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y181/metalshaper/P6080519.jp

 

[metalshaper]

DB,

at that 5 wire port connection it says - Serial I/O port..

I can try to get a pic later if you still need one??

Respect Always
Jonathan