Shop layout, necessities

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Rayanth

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I've finally stumbled on the possibility of obtaining a place where I can set up a shop. As I have never actually done so, and presently don't have machinery yet anyway, I figured I'd ask around and see if anyone has ideas for ideal setups for efficiency's sake.

My goal is to obtain a Sherline mill and lathe, though I haven't decided yet if I want them to be CNC right away or converted later...(can they run be run manually after they're made into CNC? Without reconverting to manual?)

In the meantime, I could get myself a head start on setting up workbenches and the like, anything I can make out of wood I have ready access to the tooling to do so.

Assuming a one car garage, how would you set up a shop? Lathe/mill/drill press all in a row along one wall? Workbenches as an island in the middle, or along a wall? Lighting considerations? Protection for the concrete floor (it would be a rental)? Anything I can plan for in advance would be handy knowledge to have ;)

As far as tooling, I believe I can make do with a lathe, mill, drill press if I can't use the mill for drilling operations, and a tabletop grinder ($50 for an 8 inch at the home depot, those are easily affordable)

I suppose I might need a vice, and probably a handsaw, though I can make do with a hacksaw at first. We all need our exercise, right? :D

What else should I consider?

I am very eager to get into this hobby, and will probably also use the shop for other hobbies (r/c cars, planes, maybe even boats as I live on a large lake)...but your inputs will be invaluable, as always.

Edit: I apologize in advance for anything strange in the above posting, i'm on my cellphone and it loves to substitute the wrong words (I fought for five minutes to get CNC instead of INC, stupid autocorrect)

Also, I realize there are probably other posts with similar questions, but it's almost impossible to work the search feature from my phone :(
 
Welcome to the forum. Sherline CNC machines CAN be used manually without changing anything.

JIM
 
Hi,
Welcome to the forum,

When you get involved in this hobby, enough to where you would like to stay with it, then a benchtop, horizontal bandsaw may be a good investment.

Or a harbor freight portable bansaw, which they put on sale quite often.

All these protable bandsaws seem to take the same size length of blades.

If you can afford one of those 4x6 horizontal/veertical bandsaws so commonly used, they are really great for doing scrollwork with.
I just discovered how conveniently easy it is to scroll aluminum plate 1/4" thick with my 4x6 unit, in its vertical position, with the table it comes with.

Tooling: Measurement:
dial calipers, dial indicators (both travel, and test), are nice to start with.

'littlemachineshop.com' has starter sets for test and measurement instruments.
They also carry some accesories and parts for sherline line of equipment too.

They also put together basic starter sets for the mini mill and lathe, but you could look over what they put together, and put together your own set of tooling for sherline products.

One of the real enjoyments that comes with this hobby of machining parts, is the ability and the means to which you could fabricate your own tooling.
When you build your own tooling, you get a lot of experiance in machining to tight tolerances as well as allows you to be creative in redesigning it to fit your particular need, in your shop.

Toolmaking and learning how to design and make fixtures and jigs is all part of model building, be it engines or anything else, there is always challenges to learn new techniques and ways to hold parts foer accurate operations to be done on it, and I have found that a lot of jigs (one off kind) can be made from wood, a hardwood that can be machined to accurate angles, and made properly to be able to hold workpieces securely, with the aid of clamps and such.

Have fun in this new venture.
 
The things you mentioned for tooling? Tip of the iceberg. :big:

Of course you need the lathe and mill, etc. but you also need the hardware to make them work, fixtures, measuring tools, bits, and much much more. In fact, added up, these items will likely cost more than the machines themselves.

There are many posts on here with long lists of what these tools are. Some simple searches will find them and no doubt some of the more industrious/helpful posters to this forum will post their list in response to your query. I would but I'm feeling lazy today...doesn't say much for me, does it? *beer*
 
Ray:
there probably have been books written on shop layout. Though none immedeatly come to mind. While similar questions have been asked before do a search but do not sweat it.
1) it is near impossible to have too many electric outlets. Recptacles on the back of the bench for machine and a good idea to have a separate circuit for lights. Also a couple of outlests on the front of the bench for a vacume and portable power tools .
2)Plenty of lighting
3) I like lots of drawers for storage.
4) store lathe tools under the lathe mill tools under the mill.
as far as work flow for manual machining this is pretty much Standard order of operations .
metal storage, saw, debur, layout then to the lathe mil shaper etc. a mobile cart with measuring and standard tools can be moved near the machine you are on.
The saw and grinder should be away from computer lathe , mill layout area and drawing are. But not too far that you have to make lots of steps.
This should give a starting point at least.
Tin
 
don't forget to leave some of your budget for materials.
no point in having lots of tooling and nothing to cut :big:

given the size of the machines you want, a 4" bench vice should be ideal. A couple of files as well.
I bet even those with CNC workshops still occasionaly reach them.
I personally wouldn't rate a band saw a high priority as your unlikely to be cutting thick sectioned steel.
A hand hacksaw is fine so long as you remember it's not a race to cut through as quickly as possible, but do buy quality blades.

any idea what sort of engine you want to build?
I'm sure there's somebody here who's already built it and could advise you better as to what to purchase.

all the best with this hobby

peter
 
Hi Ryan.A heavy island type workbench (old solid core doors make great tops ) would be nice if you have room for it.You can work on all sides of a project without moving it(comes in handy when working on boats and airplanes).I would put a GOOD,as in Wilton, bench vice at the top of the tooling list.Bill
 
peatoluser said:
don't forget to leave some of your budget for materials.
no point in having lots of tooling and nothing to cut :big:

given the size of the machines you want, a 4" bench vice should be ideal. A couple of files as well.
I bet even those with CNC workshops still occasionaly reach them.
I personally wouldn't rate a band saw a high priority as your unlikely to be cutting thick sectioned steel.
A hand hacksaw is fine so long as you remember it's not a race to cut through as quickly as possible, but do buy quality blades.

any idea what sort of engine you want to build?
I'm sure there's somebody here who's already built it and could advise you better as to what to purchase.

all the best with this hobby

peter

Thanks Pete!

I am a radial freak, plain and simple =) I have a passing interest in v blocks, but nothing in the world beats the sound of a radial being fired up at any scale.

I have been doing extensive CAD work from a set of plans for an Edwards Radial 5 (plans available freely and quite a few have been made to run)... One thing I love about CAD is that if you're so inclined you can use it sort of as a virtual machine shop. There are countless ways to build a part in CAD, but one fun one is to simply do it how you would machine it, keeping tool paths in mind, and 'remove' material from a solid block

This has kept me thinking about how a process would work in the shop, and led me to design a few custom tools for specific parts of the build

So in short answer to your question- I intend to build radials, possibly starting with the Edwards. I am also designing a 1/6 scale R4360Wasp Major ( 28 cylinder radial, 7x4) which is my ultimate ambition.
 
Wilton? who are Wilton? Guess i'm from the wrong side of the pond. for me it has to be a Record LOL
but seriously, radials? especialy 7 by 4!!

just remember th_wwp th_wwp

all the best with your building

peter
 
Don't forget the Shop Vac.

Please reassure us you'll have safety equipment in your plan.

In all seriousness, Welcome to the hobby and all the fun you'll have. Reading some of the build logs here can help you think of what processes you will need to do in addition to using your machines and where you might want to do put them in your shop. If you start with the idea that you'll go through several shop layouts you'll be ahead of the game when it changes. I try to use modular design: Common height of bench tops whenever possible and fit to my preferred posture, dimensions that fit nicely together as you move things around. Do you like to sit or stand or some of each?

--
ShopShoe
 
Well, as far as equipment..

First decide on subject of project and scale. A Tiny IC engine is one thing and a 1.5" scale Mikado locomotive is entirely another!


If small is where your going, based on your comments about Sherline products, then a 1 car garage is positively CAVERNOUS. You'll have all kinds of room. With a 16" Monarch lathe and K&T mill....you'll be done right there!

I THINK the Sherlines can be run in manual mode...but I'll let others confirm that.

They have a lathe-mill-tooling package that is wonderful...if your going all in, go for it!

But think about what you want to build. The Sherlines hold their value pretty well, so you could do worse.

The next step up in size is the MINI mill and MINI lathe.....tool around the forum and you will find all kinds of information on them



Dave
 
Thanks for the response, dave!

I can't imagine making anything bigger than the 1/6 scale 4360 that is my ultimate dream. That engine all told would be a bit over a foot long, but that's from five separate pieces to the crankcase...and diameter less the cylinders would probably be in the 4 inch range if not less. So I believe a Sherline will suffice.
I have my eye on the CNC lathe and mill combo, with accessories kit, for 5,000....it will take me a while to save that up, with other financial obligations at the moment, but a man can dream ;D

I suppose down the road there might be a reason to go bigger, but by then my income will surely support it.

Speaking of income- does anyone actually make money off of their hobby or tooling?

Ryan
 
Ryan,

Besides the lathes and milling machines, My most used tool hands down in the shop is my metal cutting band saw!
http://www.harborfreight.com/horizontal-vertical-metal-cutting-bandsaw-93762.html

I would skip the drill press for the saw. The mill can double as a drill press. Even though I have 2 drill presses in the shop they get very little use. Most of the time I do my drilling in the mill.

Dont forget some kind of roll around tool box. Keeping things organized and handy is very important.

As you are just starting out I would recommend skipping the Sherline, and the CNC. They are fine machines but I think you will find that you will outgrow its size quickly. I started out with the Taig which is about the same size as the Sherline lathe. I purchased a Harbor Freight 7x10 minilathe next and I find it a much more capable machine, and it is cheaper as well. My first mill was a Grizzly Mini Mill which served me well, but I also out grew it and now have a Clausing 8520 knee mill. CNC is great but I find it way more usefull on the mill than on the lathe. For hobby stuff manual is more usefull when you are doing one offs and the like. I would recomend spending your money on a good DRO for the mill instead of CNC for now.

I just went through this with a friend that was looking at the Sherline machines. What I recommended to him was the following mid size tools. It was less money then the Sherline lathe and mill he was looking at, and gives you much more capacity.

Grizzly G0463 Milling Machine $1000.00
Grizzly G8688 7x12 Mini Lathe $600.00

Dont forget at a minimum you will want a 4 jaw chuck, face plate, and HSS tooling for the lathe.
For the mill you will need endmill holders, a vice, a clamping kit, and a good selection of endmills.

Other than the saw and the grinder you mentioned, and the shop vac that was already mentioned Minimum hand tools would include.

Digital Calipers 6 inch.
1 inch Micrometer.
Set of machinists squares.
Set of center drills.
Full set of drill bits.
6 inch ruller.
Threading fishtail gauge.
Set of good files with handles.


My most used suppliers are
Enco
Little Machine Shop
Grizzly Industrial
Harbor Freight
Local Metal Recyclers for materials.


Hope this helps, welcome to the hobby!

I do need to warn you though. It is a disease. Once you get it, there is no known cure. The only treatments are spending time on the forumns and internet, reading lots about machining, and spending time in the shop making chips! ;)


Dale











 
Web's comments resonate with me a bit. I think a Sherline might be small for what you have in mind.

I suspect you will need to do some machining of subassemblies "in situ" which means a bigger swing lathe.

Make sure you can swing that crank case anyway....

Dave
 
Hey I just tried out that Grizzly shop layout software....works slick!

Dave
 
The Edwards crankcase needs 4" diameter stock, so I'd want a lathe with a larger swing than a Taig or Sherline. Assuming that you would mill the facets of the crankcase, a 4"+ HV rotab would likely be needed with a mill large enough to support it.
 
I guess I don't understand the numbers on Lathes like I thought I did... could someone explain them?
 
When I set up my shop a 11 ft x 14 ft room off the backof my house I did a layout with graph paper I drew the room to scale on it including windows doors and the radiator . I then cut out scale pieces from another sheet to represent work benches and machines. a piece of paper is easier to move than a machine or bench.
Tin .
 
Tin Falcon said:
When I set up my shop a 11 ft x 14 ft room off the backof my house I did a layout with graph paper I drew the room to scale on it including windows doors and the radiator . I then cut out scale pieces from another sheet to represent work benches and machines. a piece of paper is easier to move than a machine or bench.
Tin .

Tin, I usually do that with my bedroom layouts and the like =) But as It may be a while before I get the machines, I was hoping to get some input on what I might do to prepare in advance, building workbenches etc.
 

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