Shop-Built Slip Roll

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awake

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Here's one of the projects that has been diverting me from my half-built Modular Tower Engine - a slip roll, now completed. I made this to be able to handle up to 18" wide material. I'm not sure what the maximum thickness would be. As you can see in some of the pictures below, my first (and so far only) use of the slip roll was with a 2" wide strip of 16 gauge (1.5mm) sheet metal. It handled this with complete ease, making me wonder how much thicker it could go. I was aiming to build it strong ... probably over-built it ... but not sure what the pressures would be on the various components if I went up to, say 13 gauge (2.4mm). I'd hate to try it out and find out that I wrecked it after putting so much work into it!

One thing that impressed me was that the trial piece was not very flat when I started out, but by the time I finished, it was dead flat. Well, except for being rolled up into a circle!

If there is interest, I'll be happy to share the plans. While I looked at many different designs and adopted ideas, the overall design is entirely my own ... as are all of the mistakes!
 

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awake

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Basically, the GHT design, beefed up ?
Definitely took the basic arrangement from George's design, but quite a few differences in detail. (I actually had to go back and look to remember - I looked at so many different designs even to get to the basic arrangement, and then spent a good bit of time trying out different things ...
 

MRA

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Very Nice! Are a pair of rolls geared together, or do you just drive the sheet using one?

I have a small (about 12" wide from memory) set of home-made bending rolls someone gave me, where two of the rolls are geared, and they work better than a larger set I acquired more recently where only one roll is meant to push the sheet - these ones tend to skid. I've been wondering, on and off, what to do about it.
 

awake

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MRA, I have designed it to be able to take a pair of gears to synchronize the top and bottom rollers. I have not yet made those gears, as 1) I was impatient, and 2) I have seen varying opinions on how necessary they would be. In the sample piece that I rolled, I adjusted the top roller down to give me some pressure on the steel sheet as it passed between the rollers; consequently, the friction caused the upper roller to roll ... most of the time. There were times that it slipped, and I can see where the gears will be advantageous. My initial conclusion is, "usable without gears ... but gears would be better."
 

MRA

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I think we're in the same boat Andy (but yours is a much nicer fabrication - I'll try to get around to adding pictures of the sets I am talking about). From memory the gears on my small one are a little unusual - perhaps an elongated tooth form to allow for mesh over a range of centres corresponding to sheets of various thickness. I might be imagining that, having thought about it too much. I'll dig them out and take a photo. I've made aluminium gears with a home-made cutter before - I wonder if they would be up to this high-torque / low speed application. Or indeed if my cutter (mild steel, Kasenit) would be up to cutting something tougher.
cheers
Mark
 

awake

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Mark, in my designing of this project using FreeCAD, I wound up deciding that a pair of 16 tooth, module 3, 25° PA gears would work, allowing sufficient mesh even at the greatest stock thickness I could imagine using. Yes, non-standard, and I don't recall now why I decided why the PA needed to be 25°, but my plan was to cut them using a custom ground fly cutter - these are obviously not high speed gears, so don't need to be ultra precise.

However, I'm going to have to go back and re-examine the gear parameters. The as-built product wound up with rollers of a slightly smaller diameter than I had used in my design, and consequently the minimum distance that the gears must allow will be slightly less than I had calculated.

Petertha, I'll incorporate these tweaks into the plans and publish them here in a week or so.
 

MRA

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I must be losing it - here's the pics. On the small rolls, the design is rather nice - the two driven rollers are always at the same centres, and its only the top (un-driven) one which moves to change the bend radius. My larger ones are primitive - no nice bearings and carriers like yours, the clamp bolts bear directly on the roller spindles, so perhaps it is no surprise that they skid. I think a fair degree of rework might be needed here...
 

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ajoeiam

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Here's one of the projects that has been diverting me from my half-built Modular Tower Engine - a slip roll, now completed.

snip

If there is interest, I'll be happy to share the plans. While I looked at many different designs and adopted ideas, the overall design is entirely my own ... as are all of the mistakes!

If - - - he says!!!

I don't have enough life left to do everything I would like to do and I really don't mind borrowing - - - - so - - - - please - - - - - some plans.
 

Bentwings

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Definitely took the basic arrangement from George's design, but quite a few differences in detail. (I actually had to go back and look to remember - I looked at so many different designs even to get to the basic arrangement, and then spent a good bit of time trying out different things ...
I built a small one years ago for a specific project it got lost somewhere
Byron
 

awake

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I must be losing it - here's the pics. On the small rolls, the design is rather nice - the two driven rollers are always at the same centres, and its only the top (un-driven) one which moves to change the bend radius. My larger ones are primitive - no nice bearings and carriers like yours, the clamp bolts bear directly on the roller spindles, so perhaps it is no surprise that they skid. I think a fair degree of rework might be needed here...
MRA, in the geared version you show, what is the smallest diameter you can roll? As I was designing mine, I was thinking that, to get the smallest diameter, I needed to wind up with all three rollers as close together as possible. Not at all sure that is correct, but my test piece above showed that I can indeed roll a pretty small diameter, so I was pleased with that. (Actually could go to a smaller diameter than that test piece ... I need to experiment to see what is the smallest diameter it will roll.)
 

wazrus

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I also made a set of the GHT-designed rolls, but substantially beefed up and the pinch rolls are geared together. It's a fact that if the gears 'chosen' (mine were from a scrap pile) are of a fairly fine pitch, then they won't mesh as the rolls are adjusted. Mine use two idlers to allow for this and when the gears/axles themselves move, there is an eccentric adjuster to keep the gears in mesh. I routinely roll 4mm copper and 2mm steel and a friend, who reckons they're the best rolls ever, rolls 3mm aluminium chequer plate. I have rolled 6mmx30mm steel bar, but that's pretty much dependent upon the armstrong type motor. The rolls are all 50mm diameter hollow bar, 600mm long, running in plain steel bearings, on 25mm axles. I have rolled brass down to 0.8mm., steel to 0.4mm. The rolls would 'do' thinner stuff, but I simply haven't tried. I think a lot of roll 'skidding' is the rolls themselves actually bending ever so slightly. The 50mm rolls don't seem to do that.
 

awake

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I also made a set of the GHT-designed rolls, but substantially beefed up and the pinch rolls are geared together. It's a fact that if the gears 'chosen' (mine were from a scrap pile) are of a fairly fine pitch, then they won't mesh as the rolls are adjusted. Mine use two idlers to allow for this and when the gears/axles themselves move, there is an eccentric adjuster to keep the gears in mesh. I routinely roll 4mm copper and 2mm steel and a friend, who reckons they're the best rolls ever, rolls 3mm aluminium chequer plate. I have rolled 6mmx30mm steel bar, but that's pretty much dependent upon the armstrong type motor. The rolls are all 50mm diameter hollow bar, 600mm long, running in plain steel bearings, on 25mm axles. I have rolled brass down to 0.8mm., steel to 0.4mm. The rolls would 'do' thinner stuff, but I simply haven't tried. I think a lot of roll 'skidding' is the rolls themselves actually bending ever so slightly. The 50mm rolls don't seem to do that.
Cool. Got any pictures?
 

Bentwings

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I also made a set of the GHT-designed rolls, but substantially beefed up and the pinch rolls are geared together. It's a fact that if the gears 'chosen' (mine were from a scrap pile) are of a fairly fine pitch, then they won't mesh as the rolls are adjusted. Mine use two idlers to allow for this and when the gears/axles themselves move, there is an eccentric adjuster to keep the gears in mesh. I routinely roll 4mm copper and 2mm steel and a friend, who reckons they're the best rolls ever, rolls 3mm aluminium chequer plate. I have rolled 6mmx30mm steel bar, but that's pretty much dependent upon the armstrong type motor. The rolls are all 50mm diameter hollow bar, 600mm long, running in plain steel bearings, on 25mm axles. I have rolled brass down to 0.8mm., steel to 0.4mm. The rolls would 'do' thinner stuff, but I simply haven't tried. I think a lot of roll 'skidding' is the rolls themselves actually bending ever so slightly. The 50mm rolls don't seem to do that.
I think you have similar thoughts mine didn’t use gears at all it was purely frictional. Probably more of a press roller. It had bearing and plates on the sides so the rolls had to track without sliding around. I built it just to form race car fuel tanks. I could adjust the radius by how close the top roll was pushed between the bottom rolls the rols were split steel 1 3/4” dis. I could get tightest radius by forcing the top roll between the two bottom rolls the tightest radius was the upper roll diameter. I drove it by hand crank. Actually I was more press rolled by squeezing the bottom rolls together and forcing the sheet between them by cranking it probably force stretched the metal is had a screw arrangement to force the top roll down. I just counted the turns and kept track of them so the sheet remained straight . I made a bunch of tanks generally 3000 series aluminum but sometimes anything available was a victim. A simple piece of plastic garbage bag kept scratches and skid marks to a minimum. Also used a plywood or press board form to check bend angle and radius. It’s been 20 some years sun ice I did this so memory is a little dim. For other radii it was a matter of setting the top roll at some distance above the lower rolls then just cranking one of the bottom rolls. Gears or chain would have been better but this was something needed “right now ” I did a few heavier gage thing but it was too hard to crank so I just pressed it instead. Actual thoughts came from a job I had at the time. That was making big heavy round parts they were pressed between 3 hydraulically driven rolls picture 1”x 6” bent or rolled the hard way as it was called. It was an extremely dangerous job the bar had to be supported by overhead traveling crane holding its controller in one hand and the roller controller in the other. The machine had solid carbide rolls. Changing those required two guys. They were heavy in them selves I don’t remember how big the drive mots were 20+ hp probably

here is a thread size . See if you know what it’s called and little history

1/4 40 TPI ME ans next email LOL

BYRON
 

MRA

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MRA, in the geared version you show, what is the smallest diameter you can roll?
Not sure - the rollers are only about an inch dia, so I guess it will get down close to this. For model purposes I think a foot long is OK - but it would be handy for me to sort out the larger ones for doing more general stuff (bits of flue for my woodburners is an odd job which comes to mind). Any old pair of (similar) gears and then a chain - that's an idea to make it easy, I might have stuff laying around for that.
 

awake

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Okay, here are the promised plans. Hopefully everything is self-evident ... but if not, please let me know! I make no claims to be a draftsman (draftsperson?), so if there is something that is way off or that I could improve, please let me know!

The first attachment is a .pdf file with all of the pages; I've also included each page as an image for anyone who prefers that.
 

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wazrus

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My apologies in not replying, as we've had a storm which took out our internet for over week, but I'm now back on the air on 25th. January. I'll shoot a couple of pikkies of the geared rolls. I dug 'em out of a pile the other day. I had forgotten how heavy they are! They were built in they days before I possessed a mill, (30+ years ago) so the adjuster roll 'ways' look a bit overdone.
 

wazrus

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As mentioned, I've attached ( I think) some pix of my rolls. They have had a lot of use, there's not a lot of paint left on some bits and the user with the chequer plate nearly always brings the rolls back with a coating of rust. Bloody annoying, that. But he's a good bloke. I have cleaned the rolls up for the pikkies. The gearing and its housing are shown, surprisingly enough, quite clearly and the eccentric adjuster is the largish steel 'knob' on the gear housing pivot. Most times, the adjustment can be done by hand, but occasionally I use a pair of locking pliers. Roll adjusters are very evident and to begin a job, I sandwich a couple of narrow strips of the material to be rolled, a piece at each end of the pinch rolls and then set those rolls down to a point where I cannot pull the pieces out by hand, when the pressure 'feels' even. Then I set up the lower bending roll to contact the full-width job piece and roll away, increasing the bend by simply counting the turns of each side's adjusting screw. As my rusty-roll friend finds, the rolls do a really good job: one of those more pleasing projects.
I have taken the 'pyramid' roll setup a little further, in that I have made another nest of rolls specifically for rolling 25x12mm MS bar, for 5" railway track. These are a real challenge for a one-man band, as the rolled bar, 6 metres of it, spits out at quite a good clip and one must be quick to steady the 'other' end. A lot of bar can be rolled in a very short time! These ones are driven from a (smallish) LeRoy Somer motor, through a worm gearbox and a spur gear reduction train. I did try the armstrong method, but found the power wasn't up to speed, so the setup was duly motorised.
 

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ajoeiam

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Like you I'm finding my armstrong method torque capabilities have started to decline - - - bummer that always getting younger crap it is!!!

Nice work - - - thanks for sharing!!!!
 

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