I forgot to mention that one of my first lessons in welding during my youth was filling in a hole that burnt through. It can be done using multiple short loops with time for the puddle to set before adding the next loop. It's a skill that saved my first welding project when my uncle showed it to me on the farm. Cold welds are not strong and with higher heat there is the risk of burn through. If you can deal with an occasional hole the process is much more forgiving.
Setting up Shop Questions - from an NZ learner
- Thread starter joco-nz
- Start date
Help Support Home Model Engine Machinist Forum:
This size I use works great
I did raze the saw 6" [152mm] it very low to use. I set to height of my saw horses
Dave
I did raze the saw 6" [152mm] it very low to use. I set to height of my saw horses
Dave
Bandsaw locked and loaded.
Its the same model as the starting hafco. Just from a local shop in Petone. Delivery on Tuesday.
Budget kept the model options to the lower limit. Originally I wasnt going to get a bandsaw and was going to rely on a home made powered hacksaw. So this was an unplanned expense. I think ultimately worth it but still unplanned.
I am going to need to come up with a quick and accurate way of setting the clamp at some key angles to the blade. 90 and 45 being the obvious ones. Sounds like a litte jig project. :thumbup:
Having looked at this in store I already intend to upgrade the "table" that is used when in the vertical position. It needs a bit of plate steel, pobably ~4mm instead of the whussy pressed sheet stuff that comes with it.
XD351 - for the upgrades to the bandsaw, do you have that on a thread? If not would you be able to take some pics of what you feel are the best improvements you made and post them with and relevnat commentary?
Cheers,
James.
joco-nz
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2016
- Messages
- 566
- Reaction score
- 209
While I wait for the bandsaw to arrive (ETA Tuesday) I spent some more time today organising the garage and practicing running welding beads.
Managed to clear out a good square of space today and once I sell some surplus desks I will have room for the lathe. Yeeeha!
In the mean time I experimented with some settings on the welder. Started out still DCEP but at 80 amps. It worked but again not a very smooth bead. I then rewatched the first parts of ChucKE2009's Learning to Stick Weld series and noticed he was using DCEN with 6013. The BOC electrodes I have can do either polarity so I switched over to DCEN at 80amps. Not sure if I was just more calm/practiced but man what a difference. And boy does the slag come off much easier when you get a smooth and consistent bead. Also got some tips from my vastly more experienced neighbour on what to look for in the weld puddle.
Managed to clear out a good square of space today and once I sell some surplus desks I will have room for the lathe. Yeeeha!
In the mean time I experimented with some settings on the welder. Started out still DCEP but at 80 amps. It worked but again not a very smooth bead. I then rewatched the first parts of ChucKE2009's Learning to Stick Weld series and noticed he was using DCEN with 6013. The BOC electrodes I have can do either polarity so I switched over to DCEN at 80amps. Not sure if I was just more calm/practiced but man what a difference. And boy does the slag come off much easier when you get a smooth and consistent bead. Also got some tips from my vastly more experienced neighbour on what to look for in the weld puddle.
You can switch between the two dcep gives less penetration , useful for thin stuff .
Dcen is the normal polarity .
Give the pieces a metal a good clean up with a grinder first , any rust or crap on it will make life more difficult than it needs to be .
Welding is a little bit like painting - preparation is everything .
Also be careful where you buy your rods from hardware stores sell them but they may have been sitting on a shelf for years if they have a white powder on them they have gone past their use by date .
You can still use them but nice fresh rods are better .
Cheap rods can have you pulling your hair out , they will nib on you ( a chunk of flux breaks off one side and the arc blows out where it came off ) instant slag hole !
I usually stick to satin craft 13 rods also like WIA and Lincoln rods , recently i bought some JBS rods (blackwoods own brand) they seem ok also .
Dcen is the normal polarity .
Give the pieces a metal a good clean up with a grinder first , any rust or crap on it will make life more difficult than it needs to be .
Welding is a little bit like painting - preparation is everything .
Also be careful where you buy your rods from hardware stores sell them but they may have been sitting on a shelf for years if they have a white powder on them they have gone past their use by date .
You can still use them but nice fresh rods are better .
Cheap rods can have you pulling your hair out , they will nib on you ( a chunk of flux breaks off one side and the arc blows out where it came off ) instant slag hole !
I usually stick to satin craft 13 rods also like WIA and Lincoln rods , recently i bought some JBS rods (blackwoods own brand) they seem ok also .
When you get your saw, cut that sample weld across and examine it for penetration and an estimate of strength holding the two pieces together. You will see why great welds start with ground out edges and have multiple passes.
Another thing to practise is tack welding to hold the pieces in position while the long bead progresses. Distortion is a common problem that ruins a welded assembly. I have also found that tacking a corner allows me to tap the pieces into perfect alignment before I start welding.
I have friends who wanted to be welders so they bought small machines and I gave them an intro. They didn't practise so the welder remains a tool with which they have no comfort. I commend you for practising and practising more.
Try some thin pieces and smaller rods next. The challenge is much harder in my experience and it justifies having both stick and mig welders.
Another thing to practise is tack welding to hold the pieces in position while the long bead progresses. Distortion is a common problem that ruins a welded assembly. I have also found that tacking a corner allows me to tap the pieces into perfect alignment before I start welding.
I have friends who wanted to be welders so they bought small machines and I gave them an intro. They didn't practise so the welder remains a tool with which they have no comfort. I commend you for practising and practising more.
Try some thin pieces and smaller rods next. The challenge is much harder in my experience and it justifies having both stick and mig welders.
joco-nz
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2016
- Messages
- 566
- Reaction score
- 209
DJP - funny you should mention the cutting of the weld. I have kept the piece for exactly that reason. Also to see how straight the saw cuts in the vertical.
I have seen mention of "etching" the weld to assess penetration. Not sure if I can do that or not. Suspect it needs some nasty chemicals. But I will cut it and see what I can see.
I have seen mention of "etching" the weld to assess penetration. Not sure if I can do that or not. Suspect it needs some nasty chemicals. But I will cut it and see what I can see.
I wouldn't expect a perfectly square cut from that saw. Its value is in cutting pieces from stock to be machined or welded together. Best success for me has been with slow feed, lubricant and a new blade. As the blade teeth become worn it will wander and eventually a new blade is required.
Still, that little saw has done a lot of rough cutting for me and I love it.
Still, that little saw has done a lot of rough cutting for me and I love it.
joco-nz
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2016
- Messages
- 566
- Reaction score
- 209
Agree, not expecting cold saw grade cuts. But I want to understand how good a cut it can do when shown some TLC. .i.e. A slow cut so that the blade isnt being forced which would make it more likely to wander, given some lubricant periodically through the cut to help things along.
I also want to check that its not operating in a manner that would suggest a fundamental manufacturing flaw. This is a chinese sourced machine and I have read enough stories to understand that quality control can appear to be a bit hit and miss.
I'm confident that cleaning up some rough edges and using shims where necessary the saw can be made to operate correctly. I had a problem with the pulley retaining screw and had to drill and tap for a second allen screw. I should have checked when noises started and maybe tightening of the single screw would have been enough.
Your plan to make a larger flat table when using the saw vertically should be considered carefully. There is very little clearance between the blade and the frame so cutting sheet metal has limits. For that reason I never made a bigger table.
Just a few more thoughts for your consideration.
Your plan to make a larger flat table when using the saw vertically should be considered carefully. There is very little clearance between the blade and the frame so cutting sheet metal has limits. For that reason I never made a bigger table.
Just a few more thoughts for your consideration.
rodw
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2012
- Messages
- 1,146
- Reaction score
- 340
I've attached a PDF and DXF file that should work for you. This is a direct replacement for the OEM pressed metal table. If you can get it laser cut out of 5mm plate steel, all you'll need to do is to countersink the two holes.
You might get caught with a minimum order price but when I snuck this through with an order for a part I get cut regularly, I got 2 of them for $10 each.
I know this table works on the 6 x 4, 6 x 5 and also my 7 x 5 swivel saw. Just check the dimensions against your saw before using.Enjoy!
View attachment Saw Table.PDF
View attachment Saw Table.zip
joco-nz
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2016
- Messages
- 566
- Reaction score
- 209
Rod - awesome!
Now, due to the vast continental distances NZ has to deal with between cities the saw hasn't managed to make it from Hamilton to Wellington yet. So I'll call the store today to find out what is happening. :wall: :rant:oh:
Now, due to the vast continental distances NZ has to deal with between cities the saw hasn't managed to make it from Hamilton to Wellington yet. So I'll call the store today to find out what is happening. :wall: :rant:
oh:
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2012
- Messages
- 2,220
- Reaction score
- 1,285
Photos please
joco-nz
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2016
- Messages
- 566
- Reaction score
- 209
The saw on the stand. Still no pulleys etc in place at this stage.
Pulleys all in place
Looks like this model has some marks for different angles.
And a cutting we go!
My first couple of cuts on the saw. Looks pretty good. I used some cutting oil to help the process along.
The last "good" weld I showed a few posts back, now cut to see what it looks like on the inside. The "good" side is on the right hand side of the longer portion. The upper fillets look ok and they were the ones I was most confident with.
Pulleys all in place
Looks like this model has some marks for different angles.
And a cutting we go!
My first couple of cuts on the saw. Looks pretty good. I used some cutting oil to help the process along.
The last "good" weld I showed a few posts back, now cut to see what it looks like on the inside. The "good" side is on the right hand side of the longer portion. The upper fillets look ok and they were the ones I was most confident with.
I run my saw at the slowest speed and have never changed it. The saw works at its own pace while I do something else and wait for the clang when a piece falls to the floor. Oil sprayed on the moving blade is a good idea and normal procedure for me. It sounds better while cutting with oil.
From the results of your first cuts, the saw is working just fine. Now for the next 30 years it can cut and cut and cut although I expect it to not look this clean ever again.
Take care and thanks for sharing the journey. It brought back memories.
From the results of your first cuts, the saw is working just fine. Now for the next 30 years it can cut and cut and cut although I expect it to not look this clean ever again.
Take care and thanks for sharing the journey. It brought back memories.
joco-nz
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2016
- Messages
- 566
- Reaction score
- 209
Looks like I should do a little tuning on the saw based on some inspection of the test cuts with an engineers square. How to describe this ...
Putting the angle iron in the clamp so that it has a flat side on the bed and a side vertical to the bed. After the cut is completed the flat side is square, meaning the pivot of the saw is correctly aligned with the length of the bed.
The vertical side is not square. It's out around 0.5mm to 0.75mm across the length the of the cut. Meaning that when the saw drops down the blade is cutting back towards the bed slightly. I think this means the blade has a slight twist in it. The adjustment needed seems to be document by this youtube video: https://youtu.be/0Z-xRzI6nEI
It's going to be a small adjustment so will be fiddly to get right but now I have found it it's going to bug the heck out of me. I HATE tools that are not correctly aligned. :wall:
On the "fun" side I'm looking at a coolant system I found on the yahoo groups ( https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/4x6bandsaw/files ). Its nice and simple and seems pretty simple to put together. A bit of fun.
Putting the angle iron in the clamp so that it has a flat side on the bed and a side vertical to the bed. After the cut is completed the flat side is square, meaning the pivot of the saw is correctly aligned with the length of the bed.
The vertical side is not square. It's out around 0.5mm to 0.75mm across the length the of the cut. Meaning that when the saw drops down the blade is cutting back towards the bed slightly. I think this means the blade has a slight twist in it. The adjustment needed seems to be document by this youtube video: https://youtu.be/0Z-xRzI6nEI
It's going to be a small adjustment so will be fiddly to get right but now I have found it it's going to bug the heck out of me. I HATE tools that are not correctly aligned. :wall:
On the "fun" side I'm looking at a coolant system I found on the yahoo groups ( https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/4x6bandsaw/files ). Its nice and simple and seems pretty simple to put together. A bit of fun.
That is not unusual for a thin vertical section being cut. The blade can wander. Better to place the angle iron with edges on the bed so that it looks like an inverted 'V'. The blade will have more support.
Slowing the feed rate and moving the blade supports closer to the work piece may also help.
Slowing the feed rate and moving the blade supports closer to the work piece may also help.
joco-nz
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2016
- Messages
- 566
- Reaction score
- 209
True, but the same observations was found after checking the angle iron as cut in the original picture posts. Ie in the inverted V position. I have been very concious of feed rate so have cranked the spring up. Im almost suspicious its too light. But I'm pretty comfident I'm not over feeding it. Blade speed is set at the middle speed 29m/min which is according to the manual correct for mild steel and brass, bronze etc.
The other check i did was to stand an engineers square on the bed hard up against the fence and with its "blade" in the vertical very close to saws blade. Starting with the saw in the down position and slowly lifting up, all good but as I get to within 50-70mm or so of the adjustable support the blade edge teeth start to interfere with the square. Also when using the Mark I eyeball looking down at the top of the blade it appears slightly "fatter" towards that support end. All this makes me suspect the blade has a very slight twist in it towards the extensable support arm.
Anyway, I'll do some tweaks and see if I cant make it better. I want to get some progress on it this morning as I want to get some traction on the first welding project today and having good square cuts will help with that.
On the guide rollers you will find the roller bracket is bolted to the extension shaft and sits in a slot , this is so it can be moved forward or backward to adjust the back roller which rides on the back of the blade .
The fit of the bracket in that slot is usually pretty sloppy , what i had to do to mine is get a hold on the roller bracket with a shifter and give it a tweak( don't gronk on it) just a light twist in the opposite direction to where the cut is drifting .
While you have a hold of the bracket give the retaining bolt i tighten up , what happens is when they tighten that bolt at the factory they don't hold the bracket and the force of tightening the bolt twists the bracket in that slot it sits in.
Ian.
The fit of the bracket in that slot is usually pretty sloppy , what i had to do to mine is get a hold on the roller bracket with a shifter and give it a tweak( don't gronk on it) just a light twist in the opposite direction to where the cut is drifting .
While you have a hold of the bracket give the retaining bolt i tighten up , what happens is when they tighten that bolt at the factory they don't hold the bracket and the force of tightening the bolt twists the bracket in that slot it sits in.
Ian.
