Remanufacturing a Packard V12 engine

Discussion in 'The Break Room' started by petertha, Aug 1, 2017.

  1. Aug 1, 2017 #1

    petertha

    petertha

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  2. Aug 1, 2017 #2

    goldstar31

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    Surprisingly, the Packard Merlin was positively hated in the real world.

    At least there is one genuine Merlin engine basher left. Another 'Goldstar' out of RAF 31 Squadron from 1949 days- when we were conscripts or convicts. There wasn't much difference in the treatment.

    There is still a Spit out in Canada somewhere. SL-721 and lettered JM-R after the then 'boss' of Fighter Command, James M. Robb.
    Boothman of the Schneider Trophy Supermarine S6B 'bent it' and someone else 'bent our ears' with the unsilenced exhausts.

    Probably worth a bit more research

    Norm
     
  3. Aug 1, 2017 #3

    DICKEYBIRD

    DICKEYBIRD

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    Hey Norm, watch the video. It's about a Packard flathead V-12 auto engine; not an aircraft engine.

    Great video Peter, thanks!
     
  4. Aug 1, 2017 #4

    10K Pete

    10K Pete

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    Rolls Royce made the Merlin, not Packard.

    Pete
     
  5. Aug 1, 2017 #5

    goldstar31

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    Packard made Merlins under licence.


    Britain was desperately short of engines to go into Spitfires, Hurricanes, Lancasters, Manchesters and Mosquitos. In the question of the P-51D, the Allison was crap and a further need was for Merlins for long range fighter escort for our bombers.

    I can see a number in my head despite the passage of nigh 70 years.
    Perhaps a phone call to my Merlin mate might reveal what 266 means

    Meantime

    Cheers

    N


    It's actually 626. What about that?
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2017
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  6. Aug 1, 2017 #6

    goldstar31

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    A few corrections for JM-R and the Report by Vintage Wings of Canada.

    There is a photo of a Percival Proctor and whatever and a write up regarding Robb's Spit.

    It was NOT a Metropolitan Communications Flight aircraft but one of a trio of Spitfires which RAF 31 Squadron stationed at RAF Hendon under the command of Group Captain Terence John Arbuthnott as Station Commander looked after. He was a former P-51 jockey before this. Sl/ldr Arthur Fane De Salis OBE was the Commanding Officer of RAF 31 Squadron and Commanding Officer of the Flying Wing of Hendon.

    Of course, Hendon was the Taxi rank for the British Air Ministry officers who wanted to keep their log books of flying hours up to date.
     
  7. Aug 2, 2017 #7

    10K Pete

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    Yep, you're right, Norman. Thanks for setting me right!

    Pete
     
  8. Aug 2, 2017 #8

    goldstar31

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    The important thing was that Packard was available to supply much needed engines- onto airframes that we- Brits hadn't got.

    It meant that long range escort US aircraft were there to defend Allied bombers- and bring the final result.

    So my kind regards-- and thanks

    Norm
     
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  9. Aug 2, 2017 #9

    dairwin

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    Please excuse a newby member butting in! A Merlin 266 is a Packard version of the Merlin 66 (Spitfire low altitude/ground attack). A Merlin 626 is a civilianised post-war transport engine benefitting from late improvements for longer service intervals.

    Regards,

    David
     
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  10. Aug 2, 2017 #10

    goldstar31

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    Thank you for reminding me of the relevance of seemingly obscure numbers. A gap of 67 long and very eventful subsequent years.

    I suspect that it is all to do with something called 'Pelmanism'

    Thanks for the memory

    Norman
     
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  11. Aug 9, 2017 #11

    goldstar31

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    The news broke that 'more than 20,000 workshop drawings have been discovered for the Wooden Wonder, the De Havilland Mosquito which used two R.R.Merlins.

    Few aircraft could equal this aircraft in many, many roles in WW2.

    Amazing what could be done with seaweed and balsa wood.

    Cheers

    Norman
     
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  12. Aug 9, 2017 #12

    kvom

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    The Packard plant in Detroit, where the engines were assembled, is a still-standing ruin that occasionally serves as a movie set.

    It was the first automotive plant that used steel reinforced concrete for the structural components, the main reason it has resisted demolition since the plant closed in 1958.
     
  13. Aug 9, 2017 #13

    dairwin

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    Hi Goldstar,

    The Mossie was certainly a multi-role aeroplane and the fastest for 2 years during WW2. Hosted both RR built and Packard Merlins.

    DAI

    ps I had to look up Pelmanism!
     
  14. Aug 9, 2017 #14

    dairwin

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    The Packard factory produced nearly a third of all Merlins made: 55,523 of a grand total of 168,176. The three RR plants in the UK and the UK-Ford factory at Trafford Park manufactured the remainder.

    I understand that on VJ day, newly machined crankshafts were being tossed out the Detroit factory window into loading bins for recycling :-(

    DAI
     
  15. Aug 10, 2017 #15

    Hopper

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    So, did the US-made Packard Merlins use BSW/BSF threads and fastener hexagons, or UNC/UNF threads and AF hexes? Either way, one side or other would have been cursing that their spanners did not fit.
     
  16. Aug 10, 2017 #16

    dairwin

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    Packard fully adopted the thread forms as defined by Rolls-Royce (BA, BSF, BSP and BSW). BA (1BA and 2BA) and BSF (1/4 BSF, 5/16 BSF) extensively used.

    Some ancillary devices (e.g. internal screws of the later magnetos made by North East) did use US threads.

    Additionally, RR modified some threads to their own spec which I have found an occasional challenge (e.g. the outlet union adaptor of the supercharger changeover valve has BSP one side and RR thread the other) .

    Inter-compatibility was key during the war years, hence the Packard adoption.

    DAI
     
  17. Aug 10, 2017 #17

    kvom

    kvom

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    One reference I read said they used Whitworth threads too, and ended up making all their fasteners, as they were unavailable in the US in quantity.
     
  18. Aug 10, 2017 #18

    ShopShoe

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    Maybe it was here, maybe it was on a TV documentary, but supposedly RR experts visited Ford and Packard and decided that the machining capability at Packard would be better able to handle the work.
     
  19. Aug 10, 2017 #19

    dairwin

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    There are some BSW as mentioned. Two that come to mind is the drain fitting to the fuel pump, and the ullage drain pipe from the priming rail to the carb (on RR built engines).

    DAI
     
  20. Aug 10, 2017 #20

    kvom

    kvom

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    Actually Henry Ford refused to make the engines in the US (although a Ford plant in the UK did so). Whether it was Packard or RR that initiated the deal I hadn't discovered, but in any case Packard had to redraw all the plans. That took a year.
     

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