pre drilling for holes

Discussion in 'Tools' started by Luiz Fernando Pinto, Sep 30, 2019.

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  1. Oct 8, 2019 #41

    tornitore45

    tornitore45

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    There is some seriously wrong with that drill bit.
    The cutting edge are ragged
    The flutes have a terrible finish.
    The metal smear behind the lands indicates the they were not releaved for clearance. And that is the worst offense because rubbing and galling generate heat more than rough edges and flutes.
    Let's face it Dormer of fake, whether it missed several manufacturing steps by accident in a quality plant or is a cheap imitation of a drill the result is the same. A poor drill like that may work on some plastic or Styrofoam but should never come near metal or wood.
    I am really curious to see what the response from Dormer is.
     
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  2. Oct 8, 2019 #42

    tornitore45

    tornitore45

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    Odd, the company is in the UK but prices are in $
     
  3. Oct 8, 2019 #43

    Harry.

    Harry.

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    It shows in pounds for me because I'm in the UK, so it must change to $ for people in the USA.
     
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  4. Oct 8, 2019 #44

    goldstar31

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    I can't see a firm as big as Dormer bothering about one bad drill which is only worth a few dollars.

    I would send the guy an apology and a generous sample of drills-- and start living again.

    I got mixed up with a rather large problem- a damned sight bigger than this - and my bank sent me a couple of vouchers worth £50 in all to buy my grandchildren some pizzas.:D

    For the record, I'm a shareholder of the bank and if I had played awkward had access to the bank's annual general meeting!

    Life if I may remind, isn't the dress rehearsal it's the once only affair so let's move on.o_O

    Norm at almost 90!
     
  5. Oct 9, 2019 #45

    ALEX1952

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    If the knee of the machine is to be used as a method of feed as suggested previously, lock the quill as it can still pull it through.
    I think this method is a terrible and potentially dangerous idea, as it can bring your face nearer the work piece if you have to bend to do the feeding. I have never seen this used in a professional environment. Discuss!
     
  6. Oct 9, 2019 #46

    chrsbrbnk

    chrsbrbnk

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    Drilling with the knee is a reasonable approach just really sorta slow, might want to clamp the work down , might want to wear safety glasses, and of course clamp the quill. might want to keep your hair out of the fray too. Drilling under power feed is ultra common in the professional shop and for all intents and purposes the same as cranking up the knee or the tailstock on the lathe. just easier to keep the feed constant. its pretty easy to give too high a feed rate when drilling out very small amounts leading to tip failure.
    while I was working we would find brand new drill bits with messed up cutting angles once in a while you would get a whole dozen that were soft .
    best test sharpen the messed up bit and try drilling again that will show if its the bit or material or practice
     
  7. Oct 9, 2019 #47

    tornitore45

    tornitore45

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    The method suggested was for special situation where the manual feeding can not guarantee a constant feed rate.
    Specifically it was suggested to remove a broken tap with a carbide bit.
    The irregular fracture and the tap flutes will bounce the drill or end mill chipping the fragile carbide edge if the operator arm is all that define rigidity.
    In that case one has to proceed at glacial speed anyway.

    My mill has no knee, the head moves down, the practice is safe but is used only when the alternate feeding method is troublesome because of the bouncing.

    Knee type milling machine usually have a fine feed crank operating on the quill.

    As anything in life danger and risk can be controlled or pursued.
     
  8. Oct 10, 2019 #48

    Wizard69

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    I’ve have had this issue happen to me and have seen other suffer in the same way. If you don’t like the term tool abuse we can call it something else. In general drill bits will tear up the margins when you try to drill close to size. Yes drills made with better steel might tolerate it better but the fact remains it is hard on the drill.

    As for the steel I’m not certain it is low carbon. It could be structural steel with a hard spot for all we know.
     
  9. Oct 10, 2019 #49

    Wizard69

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    I learned this approach from an old tool and die maker. In the right materials you are at a greater risk of shattering a diol or damaging it from Quill feed as you can control for cork screwing and other effects. With the quil clamped and feed coming from the knee a drill bit would have to grab enough to lift the knee before anything bad happens.

    Frankly using the knee for drill feeding can be ideal in the right situation. There ware problems though, the lack of feedback being one, so maybe not a widely used technique. As for your face where is your safety glasses and shielding.

     
  10. Oct 11, 2019 #50

    xpylonracer

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    Not all mills have a quill on the vertical function, the first mill I had was a Victoria U1 universal horizontal machine, the vertical head fitted to the rear dovetail and was driven from the 3MT horizontal arbor drive, this gave double the spindle speeds of the horizontal function.
    The vertical head was a hefty lump but had no quill although it could rotated either side of vertical.
    To drill or add DOC when milling it was done by using the 10" handle on the knee drive which was low geared and raised 1/8" per rev of the drive, the movement was silky smooth but tiresome on the arm when multiple holes needed drilling.
    The Victoria also had a slotting head that was fitted in place of the vertical head, useful and used to slot some gears for my Colchester Bantam lathe.
    All of the milling and drilling to make my avitar 5 cylinder radial engine were done on the Victoria.

    xpylonracer

    http://www.lathes.co.uk/victoria/
     
  11. Oct 11, 2019 #51

    larryg

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    As said above on a HZ mill the knee has to be used if one wants to drill with the vertical head on. On my HZ mill I have power feed on all three axis so powering up to drill is not a problem. I also have an old index #40 mill with only a hand wheel on the quill, no quick handle. There is a lot of back lash in the quill drive so the spindle can drop ~.200" when breaking through or self driving. I use the knee at various times if some precision is needed. In a recent vid from Abom79 he also used the knee for some precision drilling. So it is used at times by various people amateur and professional alike.

    lg
    no neat sig line
     
  12. Oct 12, 2019 at 5:04 PM #52

    awake

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    It sounds like some of you are using a power quill feed when drilling - ? I'm curious about this, as on my Bridgeport it specifically says not to use the power quill feed for drilling - it is to be used only for boring. Presumably, other types of mills do not have this limitation - ?
     
  13. Oct 12, 2019 at 6:38 PM #53

    mcostello

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    Bridgeport says 3/8" capacity when drilling.
     
  14. Oct 12, 2019 at 7:04 PM #54

    tornitore45

    tornitore45

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    I recall reading somewhere that there is weakness, like a pin, in the quill power feed drive chain that limit the allowed force/torque.
    I can see that boring on a BP will always have a DOC less than 3/8" so boring is safe.
     
  15. Oct 13, 2019 at 11:39 AM #55

    awake

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    I could have sworn that the manual said not to use it for drilling, but when I checked, sure enough, the limit is no more than 3/8".

    I'm thinking now I must have picked up the "no drilling at all" from reading on the PM forum ... maybe in response to comments about people messing the quill power feed by trying to drill too large a drill? Or something like that. Not sure if someone there said "no drilling," or if that was my interpretation.

    In any case, thanks for catching the mistake!
     
  16. Oct 13, 2019 at 6:13 PM #56

    petertha

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  17. Oct 13, 2019 at 6:15 PM #57

    petertha

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  18. Oct 13, 2019 at 11:05 PM #58

    Badhippie

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  19. Oct 13, 2019 at 11:10 PM #59

    Badhippie

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    Sorry I am new to posting on this site. It looks like to me this drill bit has been spun backwards. If you look at the pic. The burr I circled would not be facing this way also I circled the relief cut. I can assure you that this bit was spun backwards everyone of us has done it at sometime. The burr is the proof it’s going the opposite direction.
     
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  20. Oct 14, 2019 at 8:03 PM #60

    chrsbrbnk

    chrsbrbnk

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    in the way back days in the shop if you left your machine running unattended, the jokesters in the shop would off then turn on the quill on backwards so that when you came back and started using it , it would wreck the tool just like that
     

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