NORMAN (Goldstar 31) new sieg C4 lathe tips

[bazmak]

Hi Buck,can you post some photos of your lathe.The 918 ref is i believe from Warco and it may not be identical to the sieg C4.The large knob at the front disengages the drive to the chuck for when/if you are using the milling attachment.
When i say more torque i mean at the lowest speed about 100rpm the variable speed motor bogs down easily under load and its not slow enough for screw cutting. A hi/lo gear system would be good in lieu of the disengage. Tumbler reverse gears would be also good to reverse the leadscrew for LH threads etc

 

[JCSteam]

I'm interested in your brake idea, I suppose something could be rigged up similar to a spindle handle with the disc mounted to the expanding mandrel instead of the handle. Maybe a multi tool with both options.

Disc brakes from bikes would be extremely sufficient at stopping the lathe spindle even with a large piece in the chuck. (I've had enough times over the handle bars on my push bike to know that one). I dont however know what would happen to the lathe, wether long term use could damage something like the electronics board, trying to pump power to the motor while it's not turning due to the disc brake been applied. As an emergency brake I like the idea, but im sure there are other means.

 

[goldstar31]

Im going to apologize in advance for all the questions I have for you!
The gib screw that you intend to modify, it it on the operators side or the back side ?

What is the 918/920 and 9180 number stand for? Is it a particular series or model number or production number for the lathe?

Mine rungs at 100 rpm as verified by a separate hall effect sensor I have.
As I stated above in the other post, cant we just cahange the ratio of the drive belt/pulleys? If we can will the rpm readout be off or does this machine get its signal from a preprogrammed setting?

Lastly, could you show me where to find this info on the gearbox and dogclutch f from Marting Cleeve?




Again, sorry for all of the questions. I am eager to learn more about these machines and want to absorb anything I can find as there isnt much info on the web on the SC4. If there is, then I just dont know where to find it or how to search for it.

The three gib screws are on the rear of the slide of the saddle. So it is quite sensible to interspace 2 between them.

The 918/920 is for yet another 'Chinese' lathe that swings 9" and has either 18 or 20" between centers. However, it has a gear box- a bit clumsy but a gearbox. nevertheless. As it comes in the box, it has both chucks, a faceplate and both steadies as well as the ability to cut metric and imperial threads-- a bit too fast for me.

So Martin Cleeve. He had a ML4 beloved of JC Steam and did a lot of improvements which featured in Model Engineer and one was a dog clutch which appears both in Model Engineer and later in his excellent book 'Screwcutting in the Lathe' and this is still in print!

The gearbox mentioned is because the old Myford ML4 never had a gearbox and when Cleeve got fed up swopping cogs he made an outrider gear box which was published a long time ago in Model Engineer.

On the subject of the newer( then ML7) Cleeve appears to be unable to purchase a full blown ML7 but persuaded to get Myford to sell him a part machine so that he could use fast and loose pulleys drive a big 1HP motor but also a 1/3rd one.

What isn't so well known( now) is that he utilized lots of fabrications to make bits for both lathes and descriptions appeared in both Model Engineer and later in Engineering in Miniature.

We - that is Jim Early and myself tried to put this work on the 'net after Cleeves death but ran into copyright problems with the new masters of Model Engineer

Alas Brother Jim has reached the Grand Lodge above and I'm near enough the journey at almost 88 now to continue.

However, I hope that this information might be constructive.

So there you have it
Kind Regards

Norman

 

[JCSteam]

Beloved??? Cursed sworn at and very nearly belted with a hammer lol Norm I think the beloved is too strong a word

However the overdrive that Norm mentions is a clever device and would be able to be fitted as an add on to the sieg lathe with a modified cover, and an extra pulley added lower in the gear chain, an expanding mandrel that fits into the end of the spindle and carries a pulley, which can be engaged and disengaged by a quick slip of a vee belt.

Have a look here for the article of screw cutting in the lathe.
http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/news/article/martin-cleeve's-screwcutting-clutch/20508

 

[BucksMachinist]

JCSteam, you’re absolutely right. I didn’t think about the electronic break. I wonder if it will be of any harm to the electronics or the motor. I do not know enough about electronics to rig up a switch that would deactivate the electronic braking while the disc brake is applied.
As far as any drawings or components go, I don’t have any yet. I got the idea from a machinist or hobby forum, I’m not sure which one it was, I’ll have to look and post it here. Also ChrisB257 has two YouTube videos on adding a Bicycle disc brake to his lathe. He has an older lathe though.

I'm interested in your brake idea, I suppose something could be rigged up similar to a spindle handle with the disc mounted to the expanding mandrel instead of the handle. Maybe a multi tool with both options.

Disc brakes from bikes would be extremely sufficient at stopping the lathe spindle even with a large piece in the chuck. (I've had enough times over the handle bars on my push bike to know that one). I dont however know what would happen to the lathe, wether long term use could damage something like the electronics board, trying to pump power to the motor while it's not turning due to the disc brake been applied. As an emergency brake I like the idea, but im sure there are other means.

 

[BucksMachinist]

I will try and post some pictures tonight. Being Valentine's Day, I might get in trouble with the Girlfriend tho!! It’s a little machine shop part number 3595.

Hi Buck,can you post some photos of your lathe.The 918 ref is i believe from Warco and it may not be identical to the sieg C4.The large knob at the front disengages the drive to the chuck for when/if you are using the milling attachment.
When i say more torque i mean at the lowest speed about 100rpm the variable speed motor bogs down easily under load and its not slow enough for screw cutting. A hi/lo gear system would be good in lieu of the disengage. Tumbler reverse gears would be also good to reverse the leadscrew for LH threads etc

 

[goldstar31]

As far as I can deduce, the 918/920 is not listed by Warco or Chester Hobby any more.

I can assure you that it is/was NOT a Sieg C4 lathe.

I'm now trying to browse the USA market

Regards

N

 

[BucksMachinist]

That you for answering my questions. Some of it I have never heard of. I am going to start searching the web for these other lathes and people you speak of. Sorry for my last post. It was a bit hard to read which I just realized now. I was trying to respond to you on my cell phone and it didnt work out so well!
I do agree that more gib screws need to be added to the saddle. I will eventually add more gib screws to the cross slide and the compound.
There is a youtube video by dans-hobbies on change gears for the Chinese lathes. In the video he makes a new and improved bango for the change gears. He then added a set of gears to it so that he can more quickly switch between gear setups. While its not as fast as a gear box it is a little quicker. The lathe he has I believe is the next size of but most of the components are identical.

The three gib screws are on the rear of the slide of the saddle. So it is quite sensible to interspace 2 between them.

The 918/920 is for yet another 'Chinese' lathe that swings 9" and has either 18 or 20" between centers. However, it has a gear box- a bit clumsy but a gearbox. nevertheless. As it comes in the box, it has both chucks, a faceplate and both steadies as well as the ability to cut metric and imperial threads-- a bit too fast for me.

So Martin Cleeve. He had a ML4 beloved of JC Steam and did a lot of improvements which featured in Model Engineer and one was a dog clutch which appears both in Model Engineer and later in his excellent book 'Screwcutting in the Lathe' and this is still in print!

The gearbox mentioned is because the old Myford ML4 never had a gearbox and when Cleeve got fed up swopping cogs he made an outrider gear box which was published a long time ago in Model Engineer.

On the subject of the newer( then ML7) Cleeve appears to be unable to purchase a full blown ML7 but persuaded to get Myford to sell him a part machine so that he could use fast and loose pulleys drive a big 1HP motor but also a 1/3rd one.

What isn't so well known( now) is that he utilized lots of fabrications to make bits for both lathes and descriptions appeared in both Model Engineer and later in Engineering in Miniature.

We - that is Jim Early and myself tried to put this work on the 'net after Cleeves death but ran into copyright problems with the new masters of Model Engineer

Alas Brother Jim has reached the Grand Lodge above and I'm near enough the journey at almost 88 now to continue.

However, I hope that this information might be constructive.

So there you have it
Kind Regards

Norman

 

[goldstar31]

I still have a "Pelman-istic' Memory and Chester Machine Tools has/had a Chester920 manual and-- it is still on the internet.

Again both Grizzly and Harbor Freight SOLD them .

I hope that this helps

Cheers

N

 

[BucksMachinist]

Wow! You guys have given me so much information! At the moment I need to get back to making a new spindle pulley for my Sieg X2 mill with a treadmill motor. I will read all of this and post back here. I almost torn between working on the lathe/mill or reading up on this new found info! Thanks!

Beloved??? Cursed sworn at and very nearly belted with a hammer lol Norm I think the beloved is too strong a word

However the overdrive that Norm mentions is a clever device and would be able to be fitted as an add on to the sieg lathe with a modified cover, and an extra pulley added lower in the gear chain, an expanding mandrel that fits into the end of the spindle and carries a pulley, which can be engaged and disengaged by a quick slip of a vee belt.

Have a look here for the article of screw cutting in the lathe.
http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/news/article/martin-cleeve's-screwcutting-clutch/20508

 

[BucksMachinist]

I just added 3 additional gib screws to my SC4 lathe compound to make a total of 7 gibs screws. I also added 2 thrust bearings to my modified leadscrew housing. Its not all finished yet. I have to trim the gib screws and I am not sure if I want to put a point on the end or a dog-point. I also have to put a marker on the housing for the dial mark. I just tore apart the cross-slide and am adding 4 gib screws for a total of 7 as well. I”ll have pics of it hopefully tomorrow. If you notice I have a bell crank on the cross-slide and a handwheel on the compound. I cant decide which one I like better. I am leaning towards the bell cranks for fine feeding be the handwheel traverses so much quicker and smoother. If I can add a rotating handle to the bell cranks then I’ll stick with them. I also want to get rid of the nylon locking nuts that hold the bell cranks on. They rip the skin right off of your knuckles! I have been thinking about making flush mounted nuts like are found on the south Bend lathe bell cranks

 

[goldstar31]

As you will appreciate, I also advised readers of yet another source of SiegSC4 information. In fact, all 152 pages of the stuff and so far, it has all been a wasted effort on my part. Seemingly, no one but perhaps a trio can be minded to comment.
It becomes yet another "Love' s Labour Lost' and sensibly, I've moved on. I hope that you will find a solution to your 'gib' problem.

Briefly, I hit yet another gib problem but this time on my recently acquired Deckel clone Asiatic Tool and Cutter grinder- with one of yet again a miserable piece of 'cost cutting'.
I cannot see me having the patience of constantly readjusting gibs when changing the various useful functions available on this otherwise invaluable machine.

Quite simply, I don't really want to 'go into print' yet again.

So that is it?

Regards

Norm

 

[BucksMachinist]

I’m sorry, what 152 pages of Sieg SC4 information? Maybe I do not see the link

Robin Renzetti on youtube has started a series of videos (well one video so far) on fixing and improving the Grizzly tool and cutter grinder (Deckel clone). I’d Love to get one of these

As you will appreciate, I also advised readers of yet another source of SiegSC4 information. In fact, all 152 pages of the stuff and so far, it has all been a wasted effort on my part. Seemingly, no one but perhaps a trio can be minded to comment.
It becomes yet another "Love' s Labour Lost' and sensibly, I've moved on. I hope that you will find a solution to your 'gib' problem.

Briefly, I hit yet another gib problem but this time on my recently acquired Deckel clone Asiatic Tool and Cutter grinder- with one of yet again a miserable piece of 'cost cutting'.
I cannot see me having the patience of constantly readjusting gibs when changing the various useful functions available on this otherwise invaluable machine.

Quite simply, I don't really want to 'go into print' yet again.

So that is it?

Regards

Norm

 

[goldstar31]

After some problems- health, holidays and a rather impossible jam up on my SiegC4, I have traced and partially cured the problems. which are no more that 'seized' bits because the lathe is 2007 and no one has removed old grease and whatever has accumulated since then. A judicious hammer in the offending places.

Everything now works provided I can do a sort of 'double de-clutch' which I learned on a 1935 Morris 8!

So the autumn /winter fogs and mists have returned and I fancy a milling facility-- in the WARM!

So has anyone tried one or other of the 2 milling attachments on the SiegC4 or SC4- assuming they are much or a muchness?

I simply do not have room in my little study for anything else. but to go 'vertically'--- onwards and upwards- Per Ardua Asbestos and that sort of thing.

For those who haven't read earlier but I am not short of the other accessories such as in 2 and 3 Morse taper.
Any comments please?


Norm

 

[goldstar31]

I have now purchases, taken delivery, assembled and am now commissioning the smaller of the two milling attachments. Seemingly, if I stick to 10mm mills etc and a 20mm face mill that all will be well.

So 3 more things will emerge. The first is to add more gibscrews, the second is to add the subtable to take a miscellany of things like rotary tables, dividing heads and a variety of vices- one of which is a rather ancient turret job which is capable of holding all sorts of diameters. The third is to add a selection of variously threaded draw bars.

I might make a pump to blow cows into a spherical shape

It seems to be the latest thing- if you believe some!

Norm