Newbie Burner and Boiler

[Gemhund]

Well, I am a complete newbie to this craft . I have for the last while been trawling this site with wide eyes at all the beautiful work that is shown here. And I also have learnt an immense amount. There is nothing like seeing a picture of a process on a lathe for instance to light the AHA bulb.
I bought a Liney RV-1 motor on E bay and it arrived yesterday. So now I am figuring out what to do and to convert all the measurments to metric, being South African/Dutch.
I decided to buy one because getting the raw material on ST Maarten, where I live, is almost impossible.
At the same time I have been building a vertical boiler. This is something I can get my head around quite easily unlike the Liney. I still have to figure out how it works
I have worked on two and four stroke motors lots, but I have never even seen a live steam engine ever. All very interesting.
I made a gas burner yesterday. I have an OK set of hand skills, being a goldsmith, so I approach anything hands first and then machine.

I made a brass ring out of 1mm sheet and silver soldered it to a brass base.

I made a domed ring and drilled the holes with my hanging motor.

I turned out all the mixer stuff. I had to play around with the holes and jet a bit. Eventually I made a .4mm jet and that worked.

Here it is running on propane. 50mm by 25mm.( 1 x2 inches)
Ok, so far so good, I am not in low orbit yet ;D
My boiler has a brass body and copper top and bottom. I had to cast a plate of copper yesterday, because one can't get 2mm copper on the island. So today I will roll it out on my mill. I will post pictures of that if it works.
Cheers, Hans

 

[Longboy]

....That burner looks fine! When you have a trade as a goldsmith and apply it to modeling , you are just alittle more ahead of others getting into the hobby. Your avatar photo engine is too small to identify. Can you tell us something about it? By the way, have you stood on the beach at the runway watching the airliners coming in to St. Maarten airport? Dave.

 

[Deanofid]

What a nice looking burner! Nice looking ring of flame it puts out too.
Did you need to put a baffle in the base piece, or is it hollow?

Dean

 

[xo18thfa]

Nice burner Hans. I think it will do the job for you.

Bob

 

[Gemhund]

Thanks everyone.
Dave, my avatar is an electric motor that I made. A bit of an 'arty' thing.
For sure have I stood on the beach when the 747 takes off or lands. Mind blowing stuff. Especially the takeoff, because you only 150 meters from the engines.
They generate a serious wind storm
Dean, I thought I would have to put a baffle in but it works just fine as is.
Beginners luck maybe? It's hollow and the domed ring fits in loose. I brazed a thin circle of brass wire inside on which the ring rests.
BTW I came across an interesting pdf file on Joint testing--Sub miniature boilers.
http://sgcox.site.net.au/ritg/boiler-tests.pdf
I hope it's ok to post here and apologies if it has been posted before.
Cheers, Hans

 

[xo18thfa]

Hans: It looks like it is burning with a very nice blue flame. What is the thickness of the dome top? What are the diameter of the burner holes? Do you have a picture of drilling the 0.4mm jet?

I think that burner could fire a horizontal steam boiler, maybe with a little blower help.

Nice work, Bob

 

[doubletop]

Hans

This looks great. You'll need to give it a good bit of air in the base of your vertical boiler otherwise it may flash back when installed. I had an issue with mine burner like this that was sorted with more air holes. I'd like to see what you have for a gas tank and regulator as I found this to be another key to success, if you try to push too much gas into the burner it will flash back. No doubt you've read through those threads.

Casting and rolling your own copper sheet sounds serious so I'm keen to see that process. However, using brass for the boiler body is bound to attract the attention of the forum. It's a no-no but I'll leave the details to the experienced members who can advise you on the safety aspects.

Pete

 

[Gemhund]

Bob, the top is made out of 1mm brass plate and the holes are 1,5mm in diameter.

Ahem, now don't laugh, but I drilled the jet with my hanging motor on my bench peg. All I did was to take an existing jet and I used a ball frazer or ball burr as they are also known and enlarged a smaller hole.

Nothing fancy.
Pete, I am using a 20 pound propane gas tank with a variable regulator.This is part of my goldsmithing workshop so I will replace it with a small tank when the time comes.
I have cast copper twice now but I get porosity in the middle. Copper is tricky to cast unlke gold or silver. It is just that to buy copper sheet and tubing takes 6 weeks lead time and I don't want to wait so long.
That is why I am messing around with a brass boiler body. It is the only piece of tubing that I have.
I read about zinc depletion and corrosion, but this is just a test thing I am building. If I can get it working I will build a decent one.

 

[Gemhund]

I have a bucket of copper scrap that a buddy gave me.

So I melted about 150 grams and cast it into my plate ingot.

I use an oxy propane cutting torch for melting and brazing.

This cast came out well. Last time I got some flux (boric acid) in. Copper can be a bit finicky to cast. I melts at about 1080C (1980F ) and at this temperature it absorbs oxygen readily. Thus I use a reducing flame ( more gas than oxygen ) when I pour.

A nice clean plate. The thicker top will be cut off prior to rolling. It acts as a reservoir as the copper cools down after pouring, because it remains molten longer than the body of the plate.

My flat section on the roller is a bit small for the plate, so as I roll it I flip it around to keep everything more or less even, with lots of annealing in between.

One plate of copper turned to size and the other still to be done. To get two pieces of copper like this to the island would have cost me about $100, so this certainly pays me for about two hours work.
Cheers, Hans

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Wow.
I just find casting your own to be amazing.
I don't know if I'll ever get to that point.

Wow.

 

[doubletop]

Hans

Impressive and a serious piece of kit there but I think I'll stick with a trip to the scrap yard. I must ask where did the bucket of offcuts come from? Somebody must be using copper sheet somewhere near you or are they all scrap from previous hand rolled sheets?

BTW do you plan to just butt join the end caps or are you going to flange them?

Pete

 

[Gemhund]

So after I turned out the disk I marked it out.

Then I domed the disk in a large doming die.

Which I am going to braze in with hard silver solder. I don't use commercial solder. I make my own. The formula is 73% fine silver, 18% copper and 9% zinc. This is a high temperature solder, very strong too.

This is my chimney/flue thingi. I didn't have and 5mm copper wire/rod.

So I melted some and cast a bar in a ingot.
I have a number of students that I teach jewellery on the internet, so I have quite a few tutorials on my website. How to make an ingot is described in this link
http://www.meevis.com/jewelry-making-class-making-a-ingot.htm

Then I draw out the wire to the right diameter.
How to make a drawbench like this is described in this link
http://www.meevis.com/jewelry-making-class-making-a-hanging-draw-bench.htm

Then I brazed the rods into the chimney.

Then I braze the bottom plate, the chimney and four heat transfer pegs into the bottom of the boiler body.

Then I braze the two flues in.

The next step is going to be to braze the top on. But I got to think a bit about it.
Cheers, Hans

 

[Gemhund]

Sorry, I forgot to answer the questions.
Pete,
There is no one that has copper plate on the island so I make my own.
I am not using a flange. There is no difference in strength, between flange or butt ends according to the tests done by the Aussies.
Cheers, Hans

 

[Blogwitch]

I have to give you great credit Hans, almost anyone else would have given up by now because of lack of materials, but because you are a true metalworking artisan, you just make your own.

It really shows that your metalworking skills and centuries old techniques still have a place in modern model engineering.


Fabulous work. Please keep showing us.


Bogs

 

[doubletop]

Hans

Outstanding; and truly can be said to have started from first principles

Pete

 

[mklotz]

Make your own ingots, roll your own sheet metal, draw your own wire, make your own solder!

As they say in the American vernacular...

Man, you rock!

(and, if you're unfamiliar with the expression, that's a big compliment).

Obviously, being a jeweler gives you skills that are a real benefit in the model engineering arena. I can't wait to see what happens when you start blinging your work. I can see it now, four carat sapphire cabochons set into the rim of the gold-plated flywheel with platinum filigree spokes and vermeil escutheons on the steam chest.

 

[Gemhund]

I made the top and bottom base. I tested this boiler the other day with my burner and it heated the water to boiling in seven minutes. Is that normal?

This is the top cover removed showing the four threaded flanges for the safety valve, pressure gauge, filler nipple and steam outlet. The copper plate was brazed in along with the three heat flues. Believe me, that took some soldering gymnastics to get all that nicely melted and the solder flashed around the separate parts. The next day I tested the boiler to 200lbs per square inch (1500 kPa ) and there were no leaks and I didn’t put myself in low orbit, so all is well. It is only going to operate at 60 lbs ( I think) so I am quite happy with the leeway.

This is the bottom shot where the burner will be fitted.

I needed to have some brass rod on Sunday last week. And I had none, so I cut a piece of 15mm gas copper tubing and positioned it as shown and then I melted brass and poured it into the tubing. There is a clamp holding the copper tube and a magnet holding the clamp to the metal melting table. The picture shows the brass just poured.

I put it into the vice and peeled off the copper tubing. I had blackened the copper tubing inside prior to pouring, so that the brass would not stick to the copper. You can see the black on the brass.

And it actually worked. I can buy some rod on the island, so I just did this to see if it is actually possible, not because it was absolutely needed. ;D

And the flanges being turned.
So now I am at the stage where I want to make a water level thingi.
I have a few questions and maybe someone can help.
Is the glass tube sealed with rubber o rings?
I see some have a little on/off handle on them, what is this for?
Then there is another thing.
I want to make a single cylinder steam machine the could turn a 6-12 volt dynamo.
Are there any suggestions as to where I could buy the plans and what machine would be ok with my somewhat limited machining skills?
Thanks all for the nice comments and interest.
Cheers Hans

 

[bentprop]

Hans,the glass tubes are as you say ,usually sealed with o-rings.In a pinch,you can use a short piece of silicone tubing if you have that.
The tap/valve is a drain valve,to empty the boiler out.Some even fit two valves,so they can totally isolate the boiler if the glass tube breaks.
Here is a very useful site for model engine building:
http://www.john-tom.com/html/ElmersEngines.html
You must have a very well-equipped workshop.I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like to see some pics of it.Your workmanship makes me ashamed to look at my pitiful metal murdering. :big:
Another Hans.

 

[SAM in LA]

Hans,

I just read your build thread.

It neat reading and seeing how you make the materials that you need.

All you need to do now is grab a shovel and dig up the ore. :big:

It can't get any more basic than that.

Keep up the good work.

SAM

 

[Blogwitch]

Hans,

Just a little comment on the use of materials.

All boiler fittings and their mounting flanges should be of bronze or gunmetal rather than brass, preferably bronze.

Under the heating stresses that the boiler has to go thru, coupled with the hot, wet atmosphere, brass will leech out some of it's zinc content, and will become very porous and brittle, maybe leading to failure of the fittings or joints.

Just a cautious reminder.

Onto other things.

You mention a working pressure of 60 psi.
I very much doubt that the burner you have made will be able to keep the boiler at that sort of pressure, even with a very small simple engine. Aim for around 20 to 25 psi, and that should be ample to keep a little engine running constantly. The engine will be a lot happier at that sort of pressure, maybe even with a lot less. With these little engines, volume is more important than pressure.

John