New to The Amateur Machinists World

[terryd]

WE live a far more quiet life. So we do not have parties or event which require any official being called to attendance as witness to the excessive festivities. ha ha
I have several projects in my head and parts and pieces in the shop.
1. The Acute Tool Sharpening System
2. Dual Dial Gauge Mill Tramming Tool
3. Flywheel based Fly Cutter using a Tangential tool cutter.
Currently I am looking into refinishing the Workbench tops with a clear Epoxy Resin surface.
Has anyone use this type of finish in their shop and if so do you have any recommendations.

Hi Cdog,

Sorry I don't have a name to address. TYhe acute system looks ok but I've never tried one. I built and use a T&C grinder designrf by Harold Hall in the UK as described in the book 'Milling' in the 'Workshop Practice Series', (click link) no. 35. It uses a standard cheap double ended (modified) bench grinder and works exceptionally well. It also demands arange of milling operations to manufactur. It is basically and adjustabel platform on which various tool carriers can be use for grinding HSS lathe tools, side and face cutters, slitting saws, slot drills and end mill. There is even an attachment to grind screwdrivers to get accurately parallel sides (almost impossible by hand) and centre punches to any angle necessary. With a bit of inginuety it could be milled on the lathe, without a milling device - see Sparey's book 'The Amateurs lathee'.

This is mine following the workhop fire, I managed to rescue quite a lot of equipment once the place had cooled and dried out after the firefighters had finished.

Devastating fire

Aftermath

















T&C after fire

I then spent a while restoring it



After restoration with new bench grinder

The fixture has full range of movement and is solid and vibration free. It can be moved macro distances left and right on the slotted base angle - lower front locking lever (although on his website he now attaches it to a couple of 'on/off' magnetic blocks and the grinding set up is mounted on a steel sheet covered ply base for more versatility). Micro adjustment made with the RH cente knob. The table can be rotated to any angle. The tool holder on table is guided by the guide in the slot and moved backward and forwards. For milling cutters the top front micrometer knob is for precise grinding on such as milling cutter or jobbers drills etc and when 4 facet grinding drills. I made several other accessories for milling cutters but they were lost and I've not yet got round to rebuilding them but I'm on to that now.

I could do a photo essay of the individual parts and re-assembly if anyone would be interested

TerryD

 

[Richard Hed]

Hi Cdog,

Sorry I don't have a name to address. TYhe acute system looks ok but I've never tried one. I built and use a T&C grinder designrf by Harold Hall in the UK as described in the book 'Milling' in the 'Workshop Practice Series', (click link) no. 35. It uses a standard cheap double ended (modified) bench grinder and works exceptionally well. It also demands arange of milling operations to manufactur. It is basically and adjustabel platform on which various tool carriers can be use for grinding HSS lathe tools, side and face cutters, slitting saws, slot drills and end mill. There is even an attachment to grind screwdrivers to get accurately parallel sides (almost impossible by hand) and centre punches to any angle necessary. With a bit of inginuety it could be milled on the lathe, without a milling device - see Sparey's book 'The Amateurs lathee'.

This is mine following the workhop fire, I managed to rescue quite a lot of equipment once the place had cooled and dried out after the firefighters had finished.

View attachment 122583

Devastating fire

View attachment 122584

Aftermath


View attachment 122580














T&C after fire

I then spent a while restoring it


View attachment 122582
After restoration with new bench grinder

The fixture has full range of movement and is solid and vibration free. It can be moved macro distances left and right on the slotted base angle - lower front locking lever (although on his website he now attaches it to a couple of 'on/off' magnetic blocks and the grinding set up is mounted on a steel sheet covered ply base for more versatility). Micro adjustment made with the RH cente knob. The table can be rotated to any angle. The tool holder on table is guided by the guide in the slot and moved backward and forwards. For milling cutters the top front micrometer knob is for precise grinding on such as milling cutter or jobbers drills etc and when 4 facet grinding drills. I made several other accessories for milling cutters but they were lost and I've not yet got round to rebuilding them but I'm on to that now.

I could do a photo essay of the individual parts and re-assembly if anyone would be interested

TerryD

I'm interested.

 

[ShopShoe]

Terry,

I'd be interested in what things you did to restore this and whatever else you did to recover from the fire.

--ShopShoe

 

[fcheslop]

Some mods to the rest on Harolds site
http://www.homews.co.uk/page465.html

 

[Henry K]

fcheslop
You said your RF25 was cracked around the lower bolt that clamps the head to the column. I have a Rong Fu RF25. Is that your machine? Mine runs great and very accurately once you forget about the adjusting the backlash adjusting nuts that are poorly designed. Just use you dials like in the old days (recenter the zero when reversing direction) to "eliminate" the backlash. My machine is also from the 1980's. One problem is the calibrated down feed dial. It moves the quill about 0.104 for every 0.100 turn of the dial. I got used to it and just compensate.
Can you post a picture of exactly where the crack is so I can keep an eye on my machine?
I have never used one but some people on YouTube really like the Precisionmatthews PM-727M Milling Machine It seems to be the same size and capacity as the Rong Fu 25.

 

[Courierdog]

That was a horrible fire. That created more damage than what we experienced in our flood. In our case the heavy rainfall over loaded the sanitary sewer which backed uo almost filling the entire basement. while we did have the backup valve it was installed such that it protected the city from us not us from the city. The basement was totally restored. I am still working on rebuilding the shop, which is why the machines have been left on their respective pallet until recently. They are replacements for the equipment that was rendered useless in the sewage flood. The basic clean up took about 3 weeks, the hygiene took and additional 3 weeks. Since the insurance company was in charge they called the shots and managed the clean up and replacement of any and all affected items in the entire basement. This happened in 2012 and the repairs were completed in 2014. The personal rebuild has been ongoing and I now have time for the workshop and putting things right (or my definition of right, not to be confused with the political right) SO this is where I have an opportunity to set up the new workbenches in a manner that promote an easier cleanup and containment of all SWARF for my manual Lathe and Manual Mill. Manual means I still have to have operational access to the operational controls. No CNC where I can close off the machines and contain all SWARF within a cabinet.
My original lighting I had installed in 2012 to replace the original was T5 fluorescent which is quite bright but now with the advent of super efficient LED lighting I am looking at removing the ballasts and install the LED replacement tubes with a daylight type of lighting system.
My workshop is what I refer to as my Harry Potter under the stairs cupboard. while only a portion of the shop is under the stairs it is a part of the shop and presents me with some unusual challenges to use all of the space effectively.
I enjoy this forum as it is much more open to discussion in a friendly and even non technical at times which I feel encourages more people to let their hair down so to speak and bring to the floor even the most irrelevant ideas and concepts.
Thanks for making this virtual space more pleasant and welcoming.
Dave C

 

[fcheslop]

Hi Henry, I will post a couple next time Ive been in the playroom. It is the same machine
The head dropping due to backlash in the gears is a nuisance as is the error in the downfeed. I fitted a cheap digital Vernier that has eliminated the problem
I did have a tenstator ? spring fitted that did a good job of keeping the err in control but after about 15 years it cracked and with the vernier fitted it was redundant
To be honest for the money they are not a bad machine once you know the limitations. It has done a vast amount of work over the years and is now just very worn even the gibs have been modified to get rid of play

 

[Richard Hed]

That was a horrible fire. That created more damage than what we experienced in our flood. In our case the heavy rainfall over loaded the sanitary sewer which backed uo almost filling the entire basement. while we did have the backup valve it was installed such that it protected the city from us not us from the city. The basement was totally restored. I am still working on rebuilding the shop, which is why the machines have been left on their respective pallet until recently. They are replacements for the equipment that was rendered useless in the sewage flood. The basic clean up took about 3 weeks, the hygiene took and additional 3 weeks. Since the insurance company was in charge they called the shots and managed the clean up and replacement of any and all affected items in the entire basement. This happened in 2012 and the repairs were completed in 2014. The personal rebuild has been ongoing and I now have time for the workshop and putting things right (or my definition of right, not to be confused with the political right) SO this is where I have an opportunity to set up the new workbenches in a manner that promote an easier cleanup and containment of all SWARF for my manual Lathe and Manual Mill. Manual means I still have to have operational access to the operational controls. No CNC where I can close off the machines and contain all SWARF within a cabinet.
My original lighting I had installed in 2012 to replace the original was T5 fluorescent which is quite bright but now with the advent of super efficient LED lighting I am looking at removing the ballasts and install the LED replacement tubes with a daylight type of lighting system.
My workshop is what I refer to as my Harry Potter under the stairs cupboard. while only a portion of the shop is under the stairs it is a part of the shop and presents me with some unusual challenges to use all of the space effectively.
I enjoy this forum as it is much more open to discussion in a friendly and even non technical at times which I feel encourages more people to let their hair down so to speak and bring to the floor even the most irrelevant ideas and concepts.
Thanks for making this virtual space more pleasant and welcoming.
Dave C

Well now, you've come to the right (or left) place for 'irrelevant'. I'm totally so. Except for your stairs--besides the stairs, a room's most inefficient space is the bed--lots of wasted space in a bedroom. I met a fellow who used his stair way (under it, that is) to build bookshelves and TV area with pre-built in plugs and wiring and all as he built the house himself. I suggest a small work table area with extra shelving for under the stairway.

 

[Courierdog]

Richard: Over the years I have met and visited people who have very creative minds for the use of the under the stairs space. Our current house design is very common, the floor plan has been modified to suit vastly different tastes and approaches. The original design had except for the living room a very small room concept for each function. in our case the original builders opened up and eliminated some of the constriction. The downstairs (Basement) when we moved in was totally open. I placed a wall the length of the house, partially to divide the space but to add additional support for the main beam which supports the floor joists.
Back to the under the stairs space.
Friends with the same original design plan have all modified the interior and for me the under the stairs area is important as it is an overlooked area.
I have friend who turned the under the stairs wasted area into, an amateur radio station, a reloading station, a hidden room, a miniature Library c/w a reading chair. The key ingredient is the use of an appropriate chair. as the actual space under the stairs is holder height so you cannot stand up straight. This explains why most ignore this space and consider it worthless.
In some cases I have seen where the entire area was walled off entirely.
As the stair case is a split type there are effectively two areas with different sets of dimensions.
Not all usable apace has to be a stand up height.
Workable and Usable may not be the same thing.
Storage space depends upon the item to be stored.
Accessible space can be be defined in many ways.
A Lathe vs a Mill have different Vertical vs Horizontal requirements.
Lighting can be in the recessed cavities created by the overhead supports.
Stairs can be used as inverse book shelves with the most active books being at the highest point and the least used at the lowest level. or with rolling shelves the stairs can become a roll out and separated filing system. For instance, my Bandsaw is stored under the stairs when not in active use as is my bench grinder on its wheeled base.
I have built my Workbenches using the ShopFox welded legs and three layers of 3/4 inch plywood as the tops. the Lathe Bench is 59 x 29 inch while the Mill Bench is 29 x 29 inch.
The Drill press has its own wheeled base as does every other device, and shelving. This allows me to move with relative ease everything in the shop with the exception of the Lathe and Mill which reside on their respective workbench and levelled in place. The Lighting is also placed for maximum illumination over both the Lathe and the Mill in the planned position. My retirement in July has allowed me to get serious about bringing together all the shop concepts into reality so I can have a space to work with metal. I have a few projects in mind that will keep me at home, I did not say keep me out of mischief. ha ha

 

[Richard Hed]

Richard: Over the years I have met and visited people who have very creative minds for the use of the under the stairs space. Our current house design is very common, the floor plan has been modified to suit vastly different tastes and approaches. The original design had except for the living room a very small room concept for each function. in our case the original builders opened up and eliminated some of the constriction. The downstairs (Basement) when we moved in was totally open. I placed a wall the length of the house, partially to divide the space but to add additional support for the main beam which supports the floor joists.
Back to the under the stairs space.
Friends with the same original design plan have all modified the interior and for me the under the stairs area is important as it is an overlooked area.
I have friend who turned the under the stairs wasted area into, an amateur radio station, a reloading station, a hidden room, a miniature Library c/w a reading chair. The key ingredient is the use of an appropriate chair. as the actual space under the stairs is holder height so you cannot stand up straight. This explains why most ignore this space and consider it worthless.
In some cases I have seen where the entire area was walled off entirely.
As the stair case is a split type there are effectively two areas with different sets of dimensions.
Not all usable apace has to be a stand up height.
Workable and Usable may not be the same thing.
Storage space depends upon the item to be stored.
Accessible space can be be defined in many ways.
A Lathe vs a Mill have different Vertical vs Horizontal requirements.
Lighting can be in the recessed cavities created by the overhead supports.
Stairs can be used as inverse book shelves with the most active books being at the highest point and the least used at the lowest level. or with rolling shelves the stairs can become a roll out and separated filing system. For instance, my Bandsaw is stored under the stairs when not in active use as is my bench grinder on its wheeled base.
I have built my Workbenches using the ShopFox welded legs and three layers of 3/4 inch plywood as the tops. the Lathe Bench is 59 x 29 inch while the Mill Bench is 29 x 29 inch.
The Drill press has its own wheeled base as does every other device, and shelving. This allows me to move with relative ease everything in the shop with the exception of the Lathe and Mill which reside on their respective workbench and levelled in place. The Lighting is also placed for maximum illumination over both the Lathe and the Mill in the planned position. My retirement in July has allowed me to get serious about bringing together all the shop concepts into reality so I can have a space to work with metal. I have a few projects in mind that will keep me at home, I did not say keep me out of mischief. ha ha

Whoa, that's too cool. i like to hear that kind of mischief: such good use of space. I always thimpfk about the wasted spaces in houses, the bed in the bedroom, and the corners of the ceilings of all rooms.

 

[Courierdog]

Well I would like to call it something like "Grumpy Old Man's Shop" Why well my daughter bought me the sign, years ago.
Nicola Spring Hanging Metal 4 Panel Wall Plaque - Beware Grumpy Old Man for sale online | eBay
What can I say, I now have to live up to the image. ha ha

 

[terryd]

Terry,

I'd be interested in what things you did to restore this and whatever else you did to recover from the fire.

--ShopShoe

Hi, ShopShoe,
There was nothing magic about the restoration it was simply the application of elbow grease and abrasive (emery) cloth of various grades. I initially used hydrochloric (muriatic) acid to remove the bulk of the rust and then used the abrasives.

As for restoration of the workshop/garage I was well insured fortunately and the insurance company employed assessors and project manager to rebuild the structure (although the problems with that is a bit of a saga still going on after 10 years). I presented the insurers with a list of the contents with costings - machinery, hand tools and other stuff that I kept in there - and they happily settled up so I re-equipped the place over a number of years but my activities were sorely limited for quite some time.

I should also point that I am still restoring some items I rescued even 10 years later as and when I have time - including a small Boxford lathe and some favourite woodworking tools - the wooden parts of the latter were obviously destroyed but the castings were generally ok and surprisingly not warped to any measurable extent. I think it helped that small tooling generally fell low down as the benches and storage cupboards gave way so they had to contend with substantially lowere temperatures unlike those that softened and distorted the centre 8" deep cross beam seen in the picture.

My advice is to keep an up to date inventory of important stuff and get well insured, fortunately my policy covered the full cost of replacement of content in detached buildings whereas some policies will only pay out a restricted amount. My content bill exceeded £25,000 but some insurers restrict cover to a fraction of that for external or seperate buildings. So my next advice is to check your cover and don't buy cut price insurance - it could be very costly in the end, that saving of a few pounds (dollars) per month.

TerryD

 

[terryd]

I'm interested.

Hi Richard,

I will add a thread when the weather improves - it was 12° C here yesterday but will be 2°C for the next few days with rain🌧 and possibly snow❄, which me and my cat both hate .

TerryD

 

[terryd]

Some mods to the rest on Harolds site
http://www.homews.co.uk/page465.html

Hi fcheslop,

Thanks for the effort, I've seen those before, I have both of his books relevant to the grinding stand in the' Workshop Practice Series' i.e. 'Milling' and 'Tool and CutterSharpening' in the USA I think that they are in the Fox Chapel 'For Home Machinists' series. They are cheap as chips and a great addition to the home machinists library, although his descriptive writing is sometimes a bit obscure and needs reading several times.

I was making several of the advanced accessories when the fire devil struck but the parts got lost in the debris, I've just started on them again. I note that he did a 'revised' version with thinner support arms, but I made the original thicker arms before he did that and due to luck the accuracy of the parts was such that I didnt have problems with lack of flexibility as he describes.

Stay safe in these troubled Covid times,

TerryD

 

[clockworkcheval]

Making clock parts and fixtures my main materials are brass and aluminum. The wife has educated me to clean the swarf from the shopfloor, from myself and from the dog after each job or at least daily. Around Christmas however there is some respite concerning the dog. Because I myself at least consider it a very festive sight to see the candlelight reflected by the brass and aluminum swarf on my beautiful brown German Longhair Pointer.

 

[tornitore45]

A cookie sheet with edges fits perfectly in the chip pan. It can be dumped avoiding much vacuuming in a cramped area. By nature of the machine the mill chip throwing ability is much more aggravating than the lathe and I have not found a way to control it other than a shield but the aggravation of the shield being in the way is greater than the chips flying around.
When mowing a lot of metal I sweep the floor as many times in a day as necessary. I hate walking on swarf.
I also have a compulsion to keep the floor free from chip because the dogs often keep me company in the shop.
Wife does not like chips, but she is understanding, makes a big fuss and then is over. Sometimes a chip falls from my hair and ends up in bed. There is where she draws the line.

 

[fcheslop]

Hi Terry, I have been looking at making the rest for a while and just keep thinking about some sort of spring just to give some friction when the screws are released. On the Acute they use an O ring .As you say the books are well worth the price if a little confusing at times its the reference system that often puzzles me.
Swarf is always going to be a problem but just wait till the big chief gets a brass one in her foot.
We live and learn although I nearly met my maker that day
Keep well all

 

[terryd]

Hi Terry, I have been looking at making the rest for a while and just keep thinking about some sort of spring just to give some friction when the screws are released. On the Acute they use an O ring .As you say the books are well worth the price if a little confusing at times its the reference system that often puzzles me.
Swarf is always going to be a problem but just wait till the big chief gets a brass one in her foot.
We live and learn although I nearly met my maker that day
Keep well all

Hi fchestop,

I agree about the reference system it takes quite a while to get around it, but eventually it makes sense if you persevere. I am a trained Mechanical Engineer - Postgrad level with many years workshop engineering in industry and education, and even I have some difficulty with some of his instructions. I've made quite a few of his projects when first setting up a serious workshop including his milling cutter holder but most were lost in the fire and it is this familiarity with his work that makes it a bit clearer, but occasionally I have to read his instructions several times to understand what he is getting at.

As for springs, Ivew not found th eneed as it is only necessary to loosen the screws just enough to be able to make adjustments and the existing friction is enough to stop untoward movement. But having said that it may be worth experiementing. I was originally goint to produce the 'Basic' grinding attachment he describes in the book before deciding on the 'Advanced' one. The basic model makes use of a 25 mm ball as the adjustment method for the necessary angles and I bought a simple stainless steel drawer knob but never used it for obvious reasons but I'm actually thinking of making a 'Basic' as it is so simple, just for the heck of it and to compare. The Basic is made simply from standard stock and it is made with simple lathe work, a bench drill and hand tools in fact if you use the lathe as a horizontal drilling machine there is no reason for the bench drill.

I think that I may do a thread on both and post results. As for swarf (chips) I use a large baking tray under my lathe bed as suggasted by Tornitore45 above. Brass swarf I keep seperate for use in a heating tray when heat tempering and blueing small items such as centre punches to ensure even heating and more controlled temperatures than I get with a direct flame. The baking tray collects most of the swarf and I use a seperate one for the brass. On my milling machine I use adjustable perspex(plexiglass) screen which are used with tee nots in the sl

Stay safe,

TerryD

 

[terryd]

Lets begin by saying I have exceeded the manufacturers warranty by a few years.
My interests have been Amateur Radio, Having worked in the Industry for the majority of my life the hobby got old.
I have always been interested in things mechanical, so in 2012 I took the leap and bought from the Little Machine Shop a 3536 Lathe and a 3960 Mill. complete with Chris's recommended starting Tool sets.
Finally after retiring for the third time this past July I am getting around to finishing the shop.
having the Lathe sitting on their original Pallets on the floor in the basement has been rather embarrassing to say the least.
I built two workbench one for the Lathe and one for the Mill, using the ShopFox Leg system from the local BusyBeeTool store.
I used qty 2 layers of 3/4 inch Plywood as the surface of the Workbench.
My plan is to use an epoxy based Varathane, to keep the initial setup simple.
I have a few first project plans lined up.
First a Test Bar for the Lathe
A Dual Dial Indicator Tramming device for the Mill
From there I also have seven projects Like the Eccentric Engineering Acute Tool Sharpening System Kit.
As Most of you have already been there done that, we have more on the Project Wish List than we have Life to live.
Thanks for Listening

Hi CDog,

For a grinding rest I would suggest that you have a look at the 'Basic' model by Harold Hall. It is described, with full drawings, in his book 'Tool and Cutter' sharpening and is published in the US by Fox Chapel in their 'For Home Machinists' series. Although a lathe and bench drill is ideal for making it, an electric hand drill in a stand and a few hand tools are all that is needed for the initial set up and there are many more complex accessories in the book that can be added as needed.

Have a look on his website here:

http://www.homews.co.uk/page146.html
Stay safe,

TerryD

 

[fcheslop]

Hi,Ive built a few of Harolds designs and they have all worked well and most are now well used. His lathe backstop works very well and with the added bonus you can adjust for a different operation then go back to the original set position
Most of my tooling has to be home made as often its not available commercially or at least a price Im willing to pay
I also keep fine brass swarf and use it in a blueing tray . Recently made the offcenter chuck just a Keats on a key way and it makes making eccentrics and simple cranks a doddle
A simple screw polisher will next up once I get some materials
Keep well and safe