need help for 1st build

Discussion in 'General Engine Discussion' started by ccfly, Sep 6, 2018.

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  1. Sep 6, 2018 #1

    ccfly

    ccfly

    ccfly

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    hi all
    i finaly get small mill bf20 and now i want to make engine on it
    friend have lathe i can use if i need ,plus i got load of hand tools
    so i hope i'm set for tool side

    now on engine side i'm total noob
    so i need help
    can u sugest some "easy" to make engine for total noob ??
    by sugest i mean free or open build with blueprints or atleast dimensions i can go
    can u help me ?

    thanks
     
  2. Sep 7, 2018 #2

    stevehuckss396

    stevehuckss396

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    If its help with engines you seek, you came to the right spot.

    I would suggest a single cylinder wobble type steam engine. They are easy to build and will help you to develope you machining skills.
     
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  3. Sep 7, 2018 #3

    metalmudler

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    Hi ccfly,

    I hope your friend with the lathe lives close by and doesn't mind regular visits, because you will find you probably need a lathe more than you need the mill.
    Personally I would of first got a lathe instead and added a vertical slide to it.
    For the noobie plans you are after I would suggest "Elmers engines".
    The plans are available free on John-Tom.com website.
    Browse through them and start with something simple first, to help you familiarize yourself with your equipment and capabilities.

    I was after a challenge so I halved all dimensions for Elmers 4 cylinder radial and ended up with a tiny engine with 1/8" bore that sounds like a bumblebee..
    What I am getting at is that you could also double all dimensions to make the engine twice the scale and likely a bit easier for a noob to make.
    I think the main thing is to have fun,
    instead of frustration..

    Paul
     
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  4. Sep 7, 2018 #4

    Cogsy

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    A simple (yet fun) first engine to build is the EZ Engine designed by members here - LINK - as it's designed for beginners, who often only have a lathe and no mill, it doesn't require a mill to construct. More involved engines will require a mill but a lathe is going to be essential as well.
     
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  5. Sep 7, 2018 #5

    ccfly

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    thanks for help
    i downloaded plans for wobble on elmers site ,,will upscale to 2 i think
    to be easy like u suggest
    and after that one will go on ez 2x upscale too i think
    i was thinking to get small lathe in next 2 month
    will this one be ok for this kind work ?
    holzmann maschinen ed 300fd or 400fd
    https://www.holzmann-maschinen.at/EN/products/metal-lathe-1637
    these are around 1k € in price ,,so i count 2-300 for tools for it and will be at 1500€
    with one of these
    but i wonder will she have precision for this kind work ?
     
  6. Sep 8, 2018 #6

    Cogsy

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    They look a lot like Sieg machines/clones/copies which, once properly set up and adjusted, perform very well. I don't know what prices are like in your part of the world but here in Australia those prices look to be a bit on the high side (if they are Sieg-type machines) for those sized machines.
     
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  7. Sep 8, 2018 #7

    ccfly

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    i think they are but .they say it's inspected by and fix, lubricant ,set in shop so they can put name on it ,and stand behind it with warranty ..same like german optimum brand etc
    but these other brands cost similar
    some poland shop sells sieg machines ,no hing added or removed
    like that em filtering thing
    for 860€ for sieg sc3 300 ,or 930€ 400 lathe
    so still same ,,prolly taxes or shipping
    wierd
    but will get one of these 300 or 400 need to read a bit specs
    but i think it's 300w and 500w engine
     
  8. Sep 9, 2018 #8

    metalmudler

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    I have a Sieg clone. Mine had plastic gears in the headstock that broke. Changed them out with metal and installed grease nipples while I was in there. Burnt the 350w motor, replaced it with a bigger one from a treadmill, changed the pulleys to xl series timing pulley and belt. Quick change tool post blah blah blah blah.. Be prepared to spend some time getting them running right.. Not great out of the box.
    Whatever your lathe costs, add that again for tooling and future mods.
    The 300 and 400 are distances between centers in millimeters. Extra bed length is handy with these small lathes. Put a drill chuck, then a 13mm drill bit into the tailstock.. Doesn't leave much room for the job! I would go the 400. Apart from the longer bed it looks to have leadscrew cover and possibly camlock tailstock and 210mm swing over bed instead of 180mm.
    I agree with Cogsy about the price being on the high side.

    Paul
     
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  9. Sep 9, 2018 #9

    Cymro77

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    I agree with the suggestion of the EZ build engine, it was one of my earliest attempts and a great learning experience. It runs well, does not require a great deal of material, is forgiving of some errors in construction.
     
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  10. Sep 10, 2018 #10

    nel2lar

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    ccfly
    Here is two sites that have many and almost every skill level:
    http://www.john-tom.com/html/Engines.html

    http://plans-for-everything.com/hen_steam_engine_plans.html

    The first one is from a fella by the name Elmer Verburg. He ate and sleep building things and his plans are some of the best. The second have some of Elmer's engines. Some of the engines combine both metal and wood which always make a gorgeous build and cut the material cost down some. Get you feet wet with a simple one and grow on that. There is nothing as bad as starting a complicated one to sit on a shelf not completed.
    Good luck and keep us up on your journey. I must warn you of one thing, once bitten by the metal bug, there is no antidote.
    Nelson
     
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  11. Sep 11, 2018 #11

    ccfly

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    thanks for help
    now to wait till friend finish lathe job he got ,,, grr
     
  12. Sep 11, 2018 #12

    nel2lar

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    [QUOTE="ccfly, post: 313135,
    https://www.holzmann-maschinen.at/EN/products/metal-lathe-1637
    these are around 1k € in price ,,so i count 2-300 for tools for it and will be at 1500€
    with one of these
    but i wonder will she have precision for this kind work ?[/QUOTE]
    Ccfly
    I looked at the site Holzmann. The lathe for the 1000 €, they are very smallish and I do not think you could scale up at all. The lathe you should look for would be at least 3 foot/ 1000 mm between centers and able to turn at least a 5 inches/ 125 mm.

    Nelson
     
  13. Sep 11, 2018 #13

    Wizard69

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    Buying a lathe is an act of balancing competing factors. For example i needed to get mine into a cellar shop so that forced me to a smaller 9x20 (about 500mm between centers). That might sound big but as somebody above pointed out as you add chucks and tooling you can end up with a very tight working space. Admittedly already having a mill changes the needs somewhat.

    As to the swing well that and the turning capability over the cross slide depends upon your needs. In the hobby oriented lathes you are better off with a smaller stiffer machine if you don't have the room for a properly constructed larger lathe.

    By the way the one thing i really hate about the 9x20 is the screw on chuck. In retrospect it would have been a good idea to go with a unit with a bolted on chuck, L series chuck or a CAMLock.
     
  14. Sep 11, 2018 #14

    editor123

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    Iqbal Ahmed's 1886 Benz Morotwagen headline picture.jpg
    BTW, a fellow in India who only has a Sherline Mill uses it just like a lathe. Mounts tools on the table and runs the workpiece up and down. He built a model of the first Benz automobile that is big enough his daughter could sit in it and it does run.
     
  15. Sep 11, 2018 #15

    Anatol

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    My instinct is to buy better quality older machines second hand, than (since I don't have the money for top of the line new machines). As Metalamulder made clear, there are often bad quality parts in cheaper new machines. An old machine that has not been abused is usually better, even if it doesn't look so shiny. And someone else has discovered any problems, and fixed them.

    As machine shops convert to CNC and old machinist retire, I'd say this an ideal time to buy better quality older machines.
     
  16. Sep 11, 2018 #16

    ccfly

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    if i only have space for it i can get one right now ,but 400kg and over 2m is just toooo much
     
  17. Nov 19, 2018 #17

    Moper361

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    Hi Ccfly
    Have you started on a engine build yet .I was the same as you looking for a simple engine to build just basic and easy to start .I looked at lots of different plans then settled on the idea I'd make my own engine how I wanted to get me started .If you look in my aviator Picture this is it in early stages ,It is very basic with not to many bells and whistles ,however it's easy to build and to get to run .I can't download a short video of it running here but happy to share with you if can message me .Also happy to help out with ideas .I built it on the fly no plans I just figured it out as I went .Its all basic machining but gives you a good I site into basic slide valves and getting them to seal and working out cam and valve actuation .

    This engine runs on about 5 psi of air. I am in the plans of building a Ic engine now on the fly I've looked at many plans and builds but prefer to wing it and make my own .

    Regards Nat
     

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