My projecet (howll's v4)
- Thread starter Lesgsy
- Start date
Help Support Home Model Engine Machinist Forum:
Cogsy
Well-Known Member
Looking really nice. I'm eager to see it together and hear it run. Fingers crossed it starts up nice and easy for you.
Lesgsy
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2013
- Messages
- 63
- Reaction score
- 56
Hi
It's coming together and turning over but very tight,how tight should it be?
I'm getting good oil pressure it's all looking good mechanically but I have a question on the electric side of things on the coil I've got a 1K ohm resistor to fit,can anyone tell me which to terminals it goes between?
Thanks Les.
Sent from my iPad using Model Engines
It's coming together and turning over but very tight,how tight should it be?
I'm getting good oil pressure it's all looking good mechanically but I have a question on the electric side of things on the coil I've got a 1K ohm resistor to fit,can anyone tell me which to terminals it goes between?
Thanks Les.
Sent from my iPad using Model Engines
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2009
- Messages
- 98
- Reaction score
- 30
Great engine! Tightness is a gremlin to try to minimize. Whenever George Luhrs and I would be looking at an engine for sale places, that's the absolute first comment he would make. You don't want an engine that's sloppy and rattling, but if you think it seems stiff, it's probably going to effect how well it runs. There won't always have to be a "bounce" on compression for a multi-cylinder engine, but in turning it you first impression is best not to be "this feels stiff". Some will run in somewhat, others will just stay stiff.
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2010
- Messages
- 777
- Reaction score
- 195
Hi Les:
Can't answer your question about the 1k resistor but it might help to tell us what coil you are using. What does the schematic for the ignition say? (one of the last few pages of the drawings).
As for stiff. If the plugs are out (no compression) it should turn smoothly by hand. Plugs out is the best way to test it before you go much farther.
Sage
Can't answer your question about the 1k resistor but it might help to tell us what coil you are using. What does the schematic for the ignition say? (one of the last few pages of the drawings).
As for stiff. If the plugs are out (no compression) it should turn smoothly by hand. Plugs out is the best way to test it before you go much farther.
Sage
Lesgsy
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2013
- Messages
- 63
- Reaction score
- 56
Hi
Thanks all for getting back to me
The coil was from Allen at Outpost Enterprises and Allen returned an email telling me that the resistor is optional,manufacturers claim you may get a bigger spark if the resistor is in place between the coil and spark plug,
And the engine seems to be freeing up the more I turn it over, I tried to put a video of it being turned over but I can't seem to get it to upload
Thanks again Les.
Sent from my iPad using Model Engines
Thanks all for getting back to me
The coil was from Allen at Outpost Enterprises and Allen returned an email telling me that the resistor is optional,manufacturers claim you may get a bigger spark if the resistor is in place between the coil and spark plug,
And the engine seems to be freeing up the more I turn it over, I tried to put a video of it being turned over but I can't seem to get it to upload
Thanks again Les.
Sent from my iPad using Model Engines
Les--I have just read through the entire thread, and I must say you are doing an excellent job. Fantastic machining on manual machines. I hope it runs as good as it look, you are doing a marvelous job.---Brian
Nice work!
I also built this engine.
It was completed this year and it was a great joy at the first start.
Here is a link on a french forum I sent some pictures.
http://www.usinages.com/modelisme/moteur-t52912.html
I also built this engine.
It was completed this year and it was a great joy at the first start.
Here is a link on a french forum I sent some pictures.
http://www.usinages.com/modelisme/moteur-t52912.html
Lesgsy
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2013
- Messages
- 63
- Reaction score
- 56
Hi it's nice to see one finished a bit different to the normal,
It looks good and seams to run well,did you have any problems starting it the first time?
I'm on my 3rd hall sensor they keep failing after 15 seconds of turning over?
Nice to see another engine
Les.
Sent from my iPad using Model Engines
It looks good and seams to run well,did you have any problems starting it the first time?
I'm on my 3rd hall sensor they keep failing after 15 seconds of turning over?
Nice to see another engine
Les.
Sent from my iPad using Model Engines
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2010
- Messages
- 777
- Reaction score
- 195
Hi Les:
I assume you are using the circuit board / coil etc. supplied by Jerry Howell (et.al) for the ignition. It should be fine.
Be SURE you have the engine block connected to battery negative (called ground here)
Be SURE you have only one point of connection for all the negatives (grounds) i.e. bring everything DIRECTLY and separately back to the battery negative (coil neg, block, ignition module etc.). with their own separate wires.
It's likely that the sparks are not finding a quick connection to ground. The path is normally from the coil through the rotor to the spark plug wire and the spark plug to the block and back to the battery negative (ground).
Check to be SURE your distributor timing is right on. If the rotor is not pointing to a plug then the spark may try to find ground another way i.e. on a path through the distributor to the nearest ground which might be the negative lead of the hall sensor or any lead of the hall sensor and through the chip in the sensor.
AGAIN. Be sure the block (and therefore the distributor body) is connected to battery negative (ground).
Make SURE all your leads are as short as possible. Don't use a jumble of clip leads even for a temporary test.
All of above are a must and should solve your problem. I hate to recommend other sensors to mask the real problems (mentioned) but there are better hall sensors available that are more robust.
See the post here
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/showthread.php?t=20415&page=18
Sage
V8 version of Jerry Howell V4 http://davesage.ca/
I assume you are using the circuit board / coil etc. supplied by Jerry Howell (et.al) for the ignition. It should be fine.
Be SURE you have the engine block connected to battery negative (called ground here)
Be SURE you have only one point of connection for all the negatives (grounds) i.e. bring everything DIRECTLY and separately back to the battery negative (coil neg, block, ignition module etc.). with their own separate wires.
It's likely that the sparks are not finding a quick connection to ground. The path is normally from the coil through the rotor to the spark plug wire and the spark plug to the block and back to the battery negative (ground).
Check to be SURE your distributor timing is right on. If the rotor is not pointing to a plug then the spark may try to find ground another way i.e. on a path through the distributor to the nearest ground which might be the negative lead of the hall sensor or any lead of the hall sensor and through the chip in the sensor.
AGAIN. Be sure the block (and therefore the distributor body) is connected to battery negative (ground).
Make SURE all your leads are as short as possible. Don't use a jumble of clip leads even for a temporary test.
All of above are a must and should solve your problem. I hate to recommend other sensors to mask the real problems (mentioned) but there are better hall sensors available that are more robust.
See the post here
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/showthread.php?t=20415&page=18
Sage
V8 version of Jerry Howell V4 http://davesage.ca/
Lesgsy
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2013
- Messages
- 63
- Reaction score
- 56
Thanks Sage for all that info.
I've done everything you've suggested and my sensor lasting well
The engine firing well on all 4 and runs well but only with the starter on it,
When I withdraw the starter it stops,it seems to need help to run?
Tanks again
Les
Sent from my iPad using Model Engines
I've done everything you've suggested and my sensor lasting well
The engine firing well on all 4 and runs well but only with the starter on it,
When I withdraw the starter it stops,it seems to need help to run?
Tanks again
Les
Sent from my iPad using Model Engines
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2010
- Messages
- 777
- Reaction score
- 195
If you think it's firing ok then it's probably a fuel issue.
Make sure your fuel level in the tank is about even with the carburetor input tube. The engine won't pull fuel too well up hill. I like to put a clear hose on the fuel line so I can see if the fuel is flowing (the occasional bubble goes by). As with a lot of engines it will take some time to figure out how to set the carb. Typical settings of a 1-2 turns on the idle mixture screw works on Jerry's carb. There is also the high speed mixture screw that really only makes a difference at high(er) speeds. Start with it open a couple of turns. Make sure you understand which is which.
If you have the air cleaner on the engine, remove it and expose the carb. Crank the engine over and quickly stick your thumb over and quickly remove it again from the air intake while cranking (1/4 sec or so). The engine should give a burst of power (if you don't flood it). If so it's probably short of fuel and you'll need to play with the carb settings. Check your timing as well. A timing light is useful. The problem with this engine is there is no good way to be sure where top dead center (TDC) is once it's assembled unless you measure it (dial indicator through #1 spark plug hole) and mark it on something like the small pulley on the front. Marking it on the flywheel is not reliable since the flywheel can slip since it's on a collett. Once you know where top dead center is, check and be sure your timing is perhaps 5deg before TDC as a start.
You might also try a drop or two (max) of raw fuel into the top of the carb while cranking. The engine should fire up for an instant.
Success with the above tricks but still the inability to keep it running indicates a lack of fuel. You may need to check the needle and seat.
Since you built the engine I'll assume your experience level is high so everything I've mentioned is probably stuff you already know - if so, sorry. It may be useful for others to read.
Sage
Make sure your fuel level in the tank is about even with the carburetor input tube. The engine won't pull fuel too well up hill. I like to put a clear hose on the fuel line so I can see if the fuel is flowing (the occasional bubble goes by). As with a lot of engines it will take some time to figure out how to set the carb. Typical settings of a 1-2 turns on the idle mixture screw works on Jerry's carb. There is also the high speed mixture screw that really only makes a difference at high(er) speeds. Start with it open a couple of turns. Make sure you understand which is which.
If you have the air cleaner on the engine, remove it and expose the carb. Crank the engine over and quickly stick your thumb over and quickly remove it again from the air intake while cranking (1/4 sec or so). The engine should give a burst of power (if you don't flood it). If so it's probably short of fuel and you'll need to play with the carb settings. Check your timing as well. A timing light is useful. The problem with this engine is there is no good way to be sure where top dead center (TDC) is once it's assembled unless you measure it (dial indicator through #1 spark plug hole) and mark it on something like the small pulley on the front. Marking it on the flywheel is not reliable since the flywheel can slip since it's on a collett. Once you know where top dead center is, check and be sure your timing is perhaps 5deg before TDC as a start.
You might also try a drop or two (max) of raw fuel into the top of the carb while cranking. The engine should fire up for an instant.
Success with the above tricks but still the inability to keep it running indicates a lack of fuel. You may need to check the needle and seat.
Since you built the engine I'll assume your experience level is high so everything I've mentioned is probably stuff you already know - if so, sorry. It may be useful for others to read.
Sage
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2007
- Messages
- 2,975
- Reaction score
- 1,043
Les,
Let's pick apart what you have said. "It runs well but only with the starter on it." No sarcasm intended but it can't be running well if it won't keep running. What do you mean by running well?
With a lot of engines there are inherent problems with the design that makes them hard to run or start but considering that Jerry built and ran the engine there shouldn't be any problems.
I would say that if it's stiff to turn over by hand then then it's going to have a hard time running to overcome the apparent friction from the internal parts, shafts rings etc.
I have found on most of my engines that at least 15 degrees advance is a good place to start the timing.
I have built Jerry's carburetor and I know how it works. What I would do is this. Set the timing to what I have said. Adjust the idle mixture needle to about 1/2 turn open. Crack the throttle plate to about 20 degrees open, enough so that it is pulling fuel from the main needle. Start with the high speed needle closed and as you crank the engine over start opening the main needle until the engine runs, hopefully on it's own. If it does then adjust the main needle open a little farther but not so far as to load the engine (too rich). With the needle in that position you should be able to throttle the carb and the engine should respond. If not then it needs a little more fuel. Don't go past the 20 degree setting when closing the throttle or it will stall. Once you have the main needle adjusted then it's time to adjust the idle needle. As you rotate the throttle to less than the 20 degree position the engine might or might not stall with the needle at the initial position. If it stalls it's probably too lean so open the needle a small amount, open the throttle to the initial 20 degree position and start over. As you close the throttle you want the engine to keep running so this will be done with the idle needle. Keep opening the idle needle until the engine continues to run. Once it does then it's a matter of fine tuning the idle needle to the throttle plate position. for the slowest idle and cleanest mixture.
gbritnell
Let's pick apart what you have said. "It runs well but only with the starter on it." No sarcasm intended but it can't be running well if it won't keep running. What do you mean by running well?
With a lot of engines there are inherent problems with the design that makes them hard to run or start but considering that Jerry built and ran the engine there shouldn't be any problems.
I would say that if it's stiff to turn over by hand then then it's going to have a hard time running to overcome the apparent friction from the internal parts, shafts rings etc.
I have found on most of my engines that at least 15 degrees advance is a good place to start the timing.
I have built Jerry's carburetor and I know how it works. What I would do is this. Set the timing to what I have said. Adjust the idle mixture needle to about 1/2 turn open. Crack the throttle plate to about 20 degrees open, enough so that it is pulling fuel from the main needle. Start with the high speed needle closed and as you crank the engine over start opening the main needle until the engine runs, hopefully on it's own. If it does then adjust the main needle open a little farther but not so far as to load the engine (too rich). With the needle in that position you should be able to throttle the carb and the engine should respond. If not then it needs a little more fuel. Don't go past the 20 degree setting when closing the throttle or it will stall. Once you have the main needle adjusted then it's time to adjust the idle needle. As you rotate the throttle to less than the 20 degree position the engine might or might not stall with the needle at the initial position. If it stalls it's probably too lean so open the needle a small amount, open the throttle to the initial 20 degree position and start over. As you close the throttle you want the engine to keep running so this will be done with the idle needle. Keep opening the idle needle until the engine continues to run. Once it does then it's a matter of fine tuning the idle needle to the throttle plate position. for the slowest idle and cleanest mixture.
gbritnell
Lesgsy
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2013
- Messages
- 63
- Reaction score
- 56
Wow it's fantasic I've got a running engine😃
Thanks for all the help,the carb settings and the fuel filter are setup so fine,
It's had about 15 min running so far and starting to respond well to throttle
I'll get a video posted as soon as I can,I've tried but can't seem to do it can any one help ?
Thanks again
Les.
Thanks for all the help,the carb settings and the fuel filter are setup so fine,
It's had about 15 min running so far and starting to respond well to throttle
I'll get a video posted as soon as I can,I've tried but can't seem to do it can any one help ?
Thanks again
Les.
Cogsy
Well-Known Member
Congrats Les. Knew you'd get it done. As for ther video, the easiest way is to upload it to Youtube then just copy and paste the address into a normal post and it will embed itself automatically.
I'm eager to see it so get to work!
I'm eager to see it so get to work!
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2010
- Messages
- 777
- Reaction score
- 195
Hi Les:
Yeah ! Glad to hear you got it running and looking forward to the video. You'll certainly be ready to build almost any engine now.
I have a question for you. Have you checked the operation of your water pump and confirmed it is moving water? Perhaps did you happen to check it off the engine.
I built the pump for my V8 version and I'm pretty sure I saw it moving water - at least a few bubbles went by in my clear hose. After a couple of years now I'm not so sure it's working - or ever worked properly.
I took it off and cleaned it up and tested it off the engine and sure enough it doesn't pump. The magnetic coupling is not the issue the impeller is moving and you can tell when the magnets "cog" when they slip.
I recently needed another pump for a new engine so I built a slightly larger version with a direct drive shaft and made (what I think) is a better impeller. But still no pumping action.
I looked at your pictures a few posts ago and what you have looks like mine and appears to be what's in the drawings so I don't think I interpreted anything wrong. I'm not sure why it doesn't pump.
I'm very interested to know if there might be something wrong with the design.
Has anyone else made one of the pumps?
Thanks
Sage
Yeah ! Glad to hear you got it running and looking forward to the video. You'll certainly be ready to build almost any engine now.
I have a question for you. Have you checked the operation of your water pump and confirmed it is moving water? Perhaps did you happen to check it off the engine.
I built the pump for my V8 version and I'm pretty sure I saw it moving water - at least a few bubbles went by in my clear hose. After a couple of years now I'm not so sure it's working - or ever worked properly.
I took it off and cleaned it up and tested it off the engine and sure enough it doesn't pump. The magnetic coupling is not the issue the impeller is moving and you can tell when the magnets "cog" when they slip.
I recently needed another pump for a new engine so I built a slightly larger version with a direct drive shaft and made (what I think) is a better impeller. But still no pumping action.
I looked at your pictures a few posts ago and what you have looks like mine and appears to be what's in the drawings so I don't think I interpreted anything wrong. I'm not sure why it doesn't pump.
I'm very interested to know if there might be something wrong with the design.
Has anyone else made one of the pumps?
Thanks
Sage
Sage
When I built my V4, I tested the water pump off the engine for a few hours and it did pump OK. I also found it seemed to pump equally well when rotated in either direction. When the engine is running, the radiator gets hot and so I assume it's also pumping on the engine. Maybe when you stretched the engine you increased the back pressure beyond what the stock pump can handle.
And, congratulations Les. As said above, after building a Howell V4 you're ready for just about anything else. -Terry
When I built my V4, I tested the water pump off the engine for a few hours and it did pump OK. I also found it seemed to pump equally well when rotated in either direction. When the engine is running, the radiator gets hot and so I assume it's also pumping on the engine. Maybe when you stretched the engine you increased the back pressure beyond what the stock pump can handle.
And, congratulations Les. As said above, after building a Howell V4 you're ready for just about anything else. -Terry
Lesgsy
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2013
- Messages
- 63
- Reaction score
- 56
Hi
The water pumps working well I haven't made the rad yet so I'm runing the water thru a tin can and I can see a good steam of water pumping into the top of the can,you're se it in the video ,but when the pump gets hot it stiffens up and the magnets can't cope
I'm just sorting the problem out and then I'll get the vidio done
Les.
The water pumps working well I haven't made the rad yet so I'm runing the water thru a tin can and I can see a good steam of water pumping into the top of the can,you're se it in the video ,but when the pump gets hot it stiffens up and the magnets can't cope
I'm just sorting the problem out and then I'll get the vidio done
Les.
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2010
- Messages
- 777
- Reaction score
- 195
Thanks Terry / Les
I also tested the pump off the engine recently and I couldn't get it to pump. Keeping it primed is a problem though while trying to juggle a drill, hoses, pump etc.
As mentioned I made a similar direct drive pump recently and I can't get it to pump either. I must have made some sort of mistake reading the drawings. Having said all that the rad was getting hot when I first built the engine so it must have been working.
I have no idea what's going on.
Thanks
Sage
I also tested the pump off the engine recently and I couldn't get it to pump. Keeping it primed is a problem though while trying to juggle a drill, hoses, pump etc.
As mentioned I made a similar direct drive pump recently and I can't get it to pump either. I must have made some sort of mistake reading the drawings. Having said all that the rad was getting hot when I first built the engine so it must have been working.
I have no idea what's going on.
Thanks
Sage
