my attempt at Rupnows imperialized ridders flame eater

[Brian Rupnow]

That is a question I've never been asked. Seeing as you paid me for the drawings and that engine really is a major pain, I would do it for free.--You could save everything except the cylinder and cylinder stands.-Brian

 

[werowance]

Thanks Brian I hope that the re-lap and new pistons will be tighter tolerance and work for me but if not ill be happy to pay you something for your time. its only fair,

on another note I just got off the phone with Becker Graphite. really nice bunch. they recommended a 12 inch stick of the jc3 rod which is 9.19 each. cant argue with a price like that. he said that one was better lubricating and still machinable. 1"x12" for what I'm guessing after tax and shipping will be about 15.00 total and will ship today. coming out of IL. so I doubt I have it before the 4th holiday coming up for me but should have it before the weekend.

 

[werowance]

I stand mistaken, 6.69 initial cost for the rod, and it was the jc4 rod not jc3

 

[Brian Rupnow]

Werowance--If you decide to go for a finger engine, this is what it will look like. You need a spacer block under the crankshaft supports, plus the finger lever, finger pad, finger lever support shaft and drive link. There are no changes to the base, flywheel, crankshaft nor crank arm. I am sorry that you have had problems with this engine. You are not alone. Just about everyone I have talked to has had problems getting this engine to run. Since you paid me for the set of plans redrawn in imperial units and the engine doesn't perform, I will send drawings of the necessary parts free if you want them.---Brian

 

[minh-thanh]

Hi werowance !
Why change to a finger engine ?
Keep trying hard ....Please try again
unfix it and inspect each part carefully, one by one, friction, airtight, closed - open valve, flame, and as well as when assembling them together.
flame eater is a engine difficult !!

 

[TonyM]

I have been interested in flame eater / vacuum engines for a while. I guess we have all seen youtube examples of these engines powering pumps, small generators, and vehicles. There are also variable speed engines.
I know very little about them so I would like to understand why so many people have problems getting these engines to run let alone power anything before I embark on a project I have in mind.
Is there something in the set up / design that these successful model makers know and we don't? Or is it just the nuances of particular engine designs.

 

[minh-thanh]

TonyM !
"Is there something in the set up / design that these successful model makers know and we don't? Or is it just the nuances of particular engine designs."

Answer your question: Nothing is secret, I am sure !
All information, everything is in the link:
http://ridders.nu/Webpaginas/pagina_ervaringen_tips_happers/ervaringenhappers_frameset.htm
I'm sure you saw it
And some of my experience: after every first test run to adjust the distance, the height of the flame should remove the piston and clean the cylinder, piston . Because when the flames are not correct it will absorb cold air outside and sometimes even gas fuel - when heated - into the cylinder and increase friction, sealing the cylinder and the piston.
When I did the first one, I made this mistake. I made a total of four pistons that fit nicely with the dirty cylinder and it got worse.

 

[werowance]

Brian, that looks nice, thank you for the redesign. I am still holding out hope that once I get my tolerances better that it will run more reliably, you should not be sorry as you definitely warned me about it before I purchased the original plans, and you deserve to be paid for your time (I just cant pay as much as your time is really worth lol)

Tony, I don't think there is anything secret, a vacume engine by its nature is very low powered and requires very close square / straight fits.

I believe my issue is just that my cylinder to piston/valve fit is just a little to loose because I can get mine to run and run very well with a little wd-40 however wd-40 burns really quick thus my cylinder soots up as soon as it gets hot which only takes a couple of mins and then its tear down clean and start over. I cant get a long run because of this. (not supposed to run any oil what so ever but its the only way I can get mine going)

the reason I believe the wd-40 and other oils I have tried seem to make it work is because it increases the seal around the piston and valve to the point it has enough vacume to run. after lots of running / cleaning I am starting to see rub patterns in the cylinder which are not completely circular, I am starting to see slight oval patches in the cylinder that the piston has not rubbed which indicate not a perfectly (for lack of better description) "square" its darn close but not perfect so I'm thinking I need to re-lap the cylinder just a tad bit more which is going to require new piston and valve because of it thus I am going back to graphite since its sooo easy and quick to machine, and just because I want to.

 

[werowance]

and while I wait for my graphite I plan to test other oils in hopes of finding a super thin with high smoke / flash point that will work. the sewing machine oil passes the smoke point but is still just a tad to thick. wd-40 is thin enough but will smoke or fire up way to soon. I'm wondering about mineral oil, baby oil or pam cooking spray? I don't have mineral oil but I do have the others to test with. we used to use pam cooking spray for gaskets on engines when we raced out at Coeburn, that way we could re-use the cork gaskets after inspection would tare down the engine to see if we were cheating or not so I'm thinking it may be high temp enough? the pam kept for example holly carb metering block gaskets from sticking and getting ruined each time you pulled the block to make a jet change.

 

[minh-thanh]

Hi werowance !
I only use the sewing machine oil , but very little oil.
I think you should use cast iron for the piston, because the graphite is easy to wear when the cylinder is not good enough.

 

[TonyM]

Thanks Minh Thanh I have read that before. Although Jan Ridders has made some wonderful engines of all types I have not seen his designs doing any work. They all appear to be so low powered that they cannot perform useful work and can be finicky to get right.
I was really looking for a reason why some engines appear to be less finicky and provide enough power to drive something. Whereas it seems that other engines are difficult to get running at all. Take this one for example.

 

[minh-thanh]

Hi TonyM !
That is a beautiful engine and effective !
The problem: "I was really looking for a reason why some engines appear to be less finicky and provide enough power to drive something. Whereas it seems that other engines are difficult to get running at all."
I think the engine use type the slide valve or valve mechanism same type engine in this video is more power because it:
1 / Very little friction
2 / Less force feedback
3 / maybe: Parts are also lighter
4 / Heat exchanger by water

 

[werowance]

WE HAVE SUCCESS its late so heres the video

 

[werowance]

ignore the fact that it stoped in this video, thought it was that I blew the flame while smokeing, i found the nut that holds the rod on the crank laying on the tile. it had backed all the way off and the rod was running on the screw threads. also after 5 or 6 full runs I found that the piston and valve started un screwing itslelf from the threads. I have not lock tighted those as I am supposed to. but I have ran it many times tonight, even called my mom she drove up to watch lol. I am so happy. I have ran several tanks of alcohol out running it, just now starting to gum up but still running. ive gotta go clean the black graphite off me. but I am soooooooo happppyyyyy it runs reliably.... no power but that's the normal and understood.

 

[werowance]

just in case, the magic tric is this, graphite piston an valve, but don't lap them in. read another thread on this forum about that just oil alone is to much, much less 7micron lapping paste. so I cut them tight could just get them in the cyinder. would be enough to bend the piston rod if I tried to spin by flywheel. then heated cylinder with pencil tourch on the back side so not to gum up the intake hole, while heating the flywheel turned on its on by gravity. the stainless cylinder expanded enough to allow the piston to move. a quick spin proved it was moving to spec. fired up the burner and she took right off.

when done I let it cool, at this point the piston is tight again. not as tight but wont pass the spin test Jan posts on his web site. but passes just fine once hot.

expansion of stainless vs graphite is the reson why... at least that's what I assume.

but it runs great. or at least like the others I have seen. if I move the flame just right it gets a lot faster.

 

[mcdavidr]

Congratulations on your success, your persistence paid off.

 

[werowance]

this video is also the first run on the new piston an valve. it gets better

 

[werowance]

it had not broke in yet

 

[werowance]

thanks mcdavidr

 

[werowance]

ok, ive gotta calm down and get to bed. thanks all for putting up with me.