Most efficient steam engine design?

Discussion in 'The Break Room' started by cfellows, Sep 27, 2011.

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  1. Jan 20, 2020 #41

    cbwho

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    That is definitely true of the later Mamod TEs but not true on the early 60s TE. My experiment involved a non-adjustable TE frame mounted with a 1980s Mamod "locomotive" double acting oscillator cylinder. The double cylinder clearly had double the power but it also clearly consumed twice the steam. Admittedly my sample size is small.
     
  2. Jan 20, 2020 #42

    dazz

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    Hi
    Condensing steam does more than just recycle water. If done right, it creates a reduced pressure on the engine exhaust to below atmospheric. This improves engine power and efficiency.
    Condensed steam would need filtering before it could be put back in the boiler.

    There is a steamboat called the TSS Earnslaw on a lake in the South Island of New Zealand. This is fitted with two locomotive boilers and uses lake water to condense the exhaust steam.

    Dazz
     
  3. Jan 21, 2020 #43

    popnrattle

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    I made a "steam" engine with cylinders. 1/2" stroke and 3 inch bore is short on torque but can be geared down to meet your needs.

     
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  4. Jan 22, 2020 #44

    Rocket Man

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    I remember reading once how exhaust steam from #1 cylinder can be reused to power another #2 cylinder. I don't remember how well that works but I understand the physics, it appears to me back pressure on #1 cylinder will reduce its power and power to #2 cylinder should not be very high. This engine design might have a special name?
     
  5. Jan 22, 2020 #45

    Shopgeezer

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    The triple expansion engine is a common marine engine. This is three cylinders. Exhaust from the first cylinder enters the second, and exhaust from the second enters the third. Each cylinder is larger than the previous one. It requires lots of pressure to the first cylinder. Very efficient. Triple expansion engines ran a lot of the commercial shipping in the world right up until the 1950’s. I know an older engineer who worked on a steamer in the Caribbean bouncing around the islands. That’s the way I would like to spend my winters! Here is a description of this engine.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compound_steam_engine

    Here is a model kit for one of these engines:

    https://www.ministeam.com/acatalog/Martin-Triple-Marine-Steam-Engine-Martin_Triple.html#SID=289
     
  6. Jan 23, 2020 #46

    Charles Lamont

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    An engine with two-stage expansion is called a 'compound'. The physics is about minimising the temperature variation in each cylinder. In engineering practice it also reduces the effect of valve and piston leakage.
     
  7. Jan 23, 2020 #47

    Jules

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    The Titanic ran the exhaust from its triple expansion engines into a steam turbine.
    Now that’s really efficient.
    The output power from the turbine was close to that of the two triple piston engines.
    The turbine drove the central propeller.
     
  8. Jan 23, 2020 #48

    k2steve

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    I did not know that - Thanks
     
  9. Jan 24, 2020 #49

    Shopgeezer

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    Now you have me thinking about running my own steam engine exhaust into a turbine. What a great idea. Interesting historical note. I understand that the Titanic was the fastest liner of its day.
     
  10. Jan 24, 2020 #50

    TimTaylor

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    Keep in mind that the Titanic boilers (29 of them) generated steam at 215 psig working pressure - much higher than is safe for any hobby application - so they had lots of pressure drop to work with. It's triple expansion marine engines were specifically designed to provide the low pressure inlet steam to the Parsons low pressure turbine that drove the center propeller.

    Steam turbines work off of isentropic enthalpy drop. At the typical pressures we use for hobby boilers, to get any useful work out of the steam engine exhaust, you would have to use a rateau type turbine designed specifically for the pressure and flow - there simply isn't enough pressure drop to use a simple curtis stage design. You'd also likely need a condenser to get enough pressure drop.

    In condensing applications, the condensate may or may not require filtering for re-use, depending on the nature of the contaminates, i.e. oil from displacement lubricators.
     
  11. Jan 24, 2020 #51

    Andy Munns

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    Many people think they started with the High Pressure and added the IP and LP, but historically they started with LP atmospheric engines where the vacuum did most of the work and added higher pressure cylinders fed by higher pressure boilers. The reluctance to embrace high pressure steam was a bit like the reluctance to embrace DC power (pro kerosene lobby) AC power (pro DC lobby) and today's renewables and EVs. Compound, triple and quadruple expansion reduce the temperature (actually heat) loss in each cylinder and this made transatlantic steamships possible. Titanic was a bit old fashioned and slower cf Cunard ships that had already gone 100% turbine. They still expand the steam over multiple stages. Recip engines cannot sensibly build LP cylinders with big enough exhaust ports, hence the push to LP turbines with their huge exhaust ports that can get the last bit of energy from huge volumes of low pressure steam.
     
  12. Jan 25, 2020 #52

    deverett

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    They were still building vessels with triple expansion engines and low pressure turbines in the 1950s. I know because I sailed on one in my later Merchant Navy career.

    Dave
    The Emerald Isle
     
  13. Jan 25, 2020 #53

    Shopgeezer

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    Twenty nine boilers! Did Titanic burn bunker oil? I can’t imagine shovelling coal for that many boilers but she was old enough that maybe so. You would need a lot of stokers.
     
  14. Jan 25, 2020 #54

    Peter Twissell

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    She did indeed burn coal.
    One of the coal bunkers already had a fire burning in it before she set sail.
     
  15. Jan 26, 2020 #55

    redryder

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    One of the most efficient designs ever was the steam-diesel for marine use. While very efficient compared to other existing power plants, it was a commercial failure given that it's operation required tending and maintaining by both a diesel engineer and a steam engineer. The limited number of engineers who were certified for both steam and diesel stopped going to sea and became marine surveyors. Not installing it vs hiring 2 full time engineers for every shift, I believe, kept the installed fleet at just two ships.
     

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