Money to spend on inserts and holder for lathe

[Steamchick]

On feed rate for cutting, I work on about few~5% speed drop as the variable speed adjusts for the electrical load to meet the torque. But that is unique to my lathe as the speed controller damping is set.... somehow randomly? The lead-screw is the only auto-feed I have anyway, which is left on the slowest feed rate and I only change it when thread cutting needs different change wheels. (A spanner job to change speed). For cross cutting and using the compound slide it is all manual feed, and that is something I enjoy, as I learned hand-over-hand feed using the WWII lathes when I was a lad, and my Grandfather's (then later my Dad's) 3" swing lathe with RH Threads on the feed-screws (LEFT makes it tight) etc., as it pre-dated all the modern LH-Threaded feed-screws (RIGHT makes it tight). Oh, and I learned hand graving on my other grandfather's watch makers lathe (no tool post). Graving takes a lot of careful control, but still good for blending flats to curves without CNC! I am sure graving still qualifies as machining? - There must be a few gravers amongst you all!
K2

 

[Charles Lamont]

I currently use a drill-speed table per material - and tweak it a bit by "feel and ear" as a quick guide, as it saves me calculating everything when I want to be making swarf.
The odd thing is that I have never come across a milling speed per material table? - Again, "feel and ear" gives me good results, usually by adjusting hand feed rate. But that's what I did as an "apprentice", based on some rudimentary speeds and feeds that the experienced fitters taught me (that I have forgotten. Too many years in industry, not involved with machining details.).

To understand this go back to first principles. In theory, what matters is the surface speed of the tool relative to the job. So for the same tool and work materials you turn a 1" diameter at the same speed as you drill a 1" hole or run a 1" end mill.

The speeds given in text and data books are based on efficient and economic production, optimising between production rate and tool costs. As amateurs, we don't need to do that, and can do what suits us, our kit, and our jobs. But it is a useful starting point.

I mostly use HSS tooling, and I start with:
alloy steel & cast iron: 50 ft/min
mild steel: 100 ft/min
brass & aluminium alloy: 300 ft/min

I just do a bit of (most usually mental) arithmetic to turn that guide into a speed suitable for the workpiece (or cutter) diameter. Rather that look up a table, it may be better for you in holding off dementia to do the mental exercise, and if that much mental arthmetic is beyond your capabilities, I am not sure you are safe to be let loose in a workshop.

In practice, I tend to mill a bit slower and drill quite a lot slower. I also usually bore more slowly too. And ream at no more than half calculated speed, often a lot less.

For turning, I will generally pick the nearest lower speed of the machine and try that, dropping further if the job seems to go better that way. I usually look for a speed that will give me the best surface finish.

For the very best finish off the tool, finishing the root radius on a crankpin for example, I may well drop right down to bottom back-gear (25 rpm).

I also use a fair amount of home made tooling such a boring bits. These are silver steel (drill rod) and I halve the nominal HSS speed.

On the rare occasions I use carbide tools I go for about 3 times the HSS speed on iron. Machining steel with carbide, I go for chips that come off turning colour and end up blue.

 

[ChazzC]

Thanks Jason, what cutting speeds do you propose for HSs and Carbide inserts? - for both Mild steel, and CI, and maybe brass as well? Ft/min. or m/s, or whatever you have and I'll calculate running speeds per diameter for these and make a table.
I currently use a drill-speed table per material - and tweak it a bit by "feel and ear" as a quick guide, as it saves me calculating everything when I want to be making swarf.
The odd thing is that I have never come across a milling speed per material table? - Again, "feel and ear" gives me good results, usually by adjusting hand feed rate. But that's what I did as an "apprentice", based on some rudimentary speeds and feeds that the experienced fitters taught me (that I have forgotten. Too many years in industry, not involved with machining details.).
Thanks,
K2

Little Machine Shop (LMS) has a Speeds & Feeds calculator on their website (under LittleMachineShopdotcom\Info Center\Machinist Calculator\Speeds & Feeds if the link has changed) that includes Milling, Turning & Drilling operations:

https://littlemachineshop.com/mobile/speeds_feeds.php

Select the operation, the material, diameter (end mill, drill bit or object depending upon the operation), cutter material (Carbide/HSS),number of cutting edges (milling or drilling defaults to 2 but can be changed, turning defaults to 1) and enter the maximum speed of your machine. You can also tweak the cutting speed from the range that the calculator recommends based on material.

There are also other handy calculators on the Machinist Calculator page.

 

[Jasonb]

My rough and ready rule of thumb is much the same as Charles
Steel & iron 100ft/min for HSS and 300ft/min for carbide or 30m and 100m/min in metric. Aluminium 3 times that. Turning or milling

Most half decent suppliers will give suggested speeds for their inserts or cutters in various materials, for example most inserts would have a range of 80-240m/min and for the flywheels I mentioned above I would be towards the top end of that to counter the loss of guts on the variable speed machines when cutting large diameters where it really drops off at slow speed.

In all cases treat any published charts as a starting guide and adjust to suit your machine and the job in hand, generally try and stay close to the surface speed but lower the DOC and feeds if needed. Most of the time I don't bother to shift my lathe into the high range which would give book speeds for small diameters the 1150rpm max in low range does a good enough job particularly as we are likely to be just doing one or two items rather than a large batch where it would be worth the effort to change.

 

[L98fiero]

The odd thing is that I have never come across a milling speed per material table?

Try Gwizard, it's free up to, I think, 3 hp and it covers turning, milling and drilling and has some useful other information. Biggest problem I have is that they have updates every few weeks/months and the process, while helpful, is annoying, and then there's the regular sales emails, but not so annoying as to cause me to get rid of the program. G-Wizard CNC Speeds and Feeds Calculator for Milling Machines

 

[el gringo]

Okay---To bring this thread up to date---this is what I bought. It seems to work very well for what I do and the carbide hasn't chipped nor broken on interrupted cuts. I can take 0.020" depth of cut in cold rolled steel, and it doesn't seem to mind a bit. I bought the toolholder with a 1/2" square shank and didn't realize until it got here that my quick change toolpost would only work with 3/8" square tooling. In order to get the carbide down to the lathes centerline I had to remove 0.125" from the bottom of one tool holder, but that's okay, that toolholder is dedicated to this particular tool. It wasn't cheap, I think I paid close to $170 Canadian for the tool and five inserts. Each insert has three points, so I hope to get a good long life from this.

 

[el gringo]

Okay---To bring this thread up to date---this is what I bought. It seems to work very well for what I do and the carbide hasn't chipped nor broken on interrupted cuts. I can take 0.020" depth of cut in cold rolled steel, and it doesn't seem to mind a bit. I bought the toolholder with a 1/2" square shank and didn't realize until it got here that my quick change toolpost would only work with 3/8" square tooling. In order to get the carbide down to the lathes centerline I had to remove 0.125" from the bottom of one tool holder, but that's okay, that toolholder is dedicated to this particular tool. It wasn't cheap, I think I paid close to $170 Canadian for the tool and five inserts. Each insert has three points, so I hope to get a good long life from this.

I have found TTC brand inserts not to be of the quality worth the price.
Ray M

 

[Vietti]

Beating a dead horse but that holder and inserts for 170 Canadian would be under $20 with shipping from Bangood, and there is some variety in insert specs. I use the diamond shape inserts the most and their thinnest parting tool and inserts is a joy.

Has any one else used Bangood tools and inserts that can comment on their quality or lack thereof??

 

[Gordon]

I have a set of holders RH LH center as well as cut off threading and boring bars from Banggood. I have been very satisfied with them and everything was probably about $100. I use them all of the time on the lathe. No complaints and I am still using the inserts which came with the originals.

 

[Jasonb]

The two different times I bough Banggood inserts I found they were quite poor.

One were Inserts for a face mill that were so blunt it shook the mill all over the place, changing to better quality inserts transformed it completely (also had to correct the actual head which was a sloppy fit on the arbor)

Second were some CCTY 06 that just did not cut well , on one job they had lost their edge after one pass, changed to Kennametal and completed the job and insert still as good as when it started.

The problem with Banggood is they are just a market place so you don't really know who the item is coming from.

And before anyone suggests I'm anti all my holders are Chinese, mostly Glanze with some APT and ARC, worth paying a little more for better quality import but not the whole hog for name brands

I also wonder why Brian went for such a large holder, not only did it need modifications but it takes larger ( More Costly) inserts and he seems to want to keep costs down buy getting 3 corners to use despite diamond shaped ones giving 4 usable corners? I would also have gone for a smaller tip radius for the size of work Brian does, 0.8mm (1/32" rad) is more for roughing at our sizes, 0.2mm or 0.4mm rad is what I use for most work

 

[Richard Hed]

Beating a dead horse but that holder and inserts for 170 Canadian would be under $20 with shipping from Bangood, and there is some variety in insert specs. I use the diamond shape inserts the most and their thinnest parting tool and inserts is a joy.

Has any one else used Bangood tools and inserts that can comment on their quality or lack thereof??

Yes, I can comment. I have been using them with decent luck. As long as they are sharp, they cut very well and make a very smooth finish cut. however, honestly, I cannot compare them to the high priced spread, because I simply cannot afford a bit that costs 20-45$ that is supposed to last forever. When I first started buying bangood I had virtually no trouble paying for them or recieving them. But now, it seems they have complicated the process, they are hiding their prices so they can get your eddress, tele #, home address and your bank account #. I really hate that type of "marketing"--I just want to see the price. Instead, I get loads of unwanted email to sell me "just what I want" but it NEVER IS just what I want. I have been trying to get one of those very sharp nosed diamond tool holder in the "v" designation category but they are difficlut to find. Odd-- the bits are every where but no holders!

In the end, I get frustrated and angry and end up cutting the bastards off. The price has gone up quite significantly too. I use a triangle for lots of cutting, those semi-dtriangles (not quite triangles but with a couple extrs sides) for roughing and interupted cuts, and the "D" series (diamond) for finish cuts and a lot of rougnhting too.

Have you noticed that the Chinese are like insurance salesmen? They ask you on the phone: "How are hyou today? Everything good?" When I hear that, I say some VERY un nice things abnd hang up. The Chinese do the same but I thimpfks it's not like the insurance kreeps, I thimpfks it's their culture to "be polite" . What they do is ask, "Hi Johnson, happy Honika, (or Xmas, or new year, or satan's birthday, or whatever they thimpfks they can bait you with)", not understanding that "Johnson" is my last name and it's very rude in OUR culture to say, "Hi JOHNSON". It's also extremely tiring to have some business person whom I do not know personally, have no interest in knowing by long distance who is trying to pretend to be my fwen just to make a sale (or is that sail?). The instant they have gotten my $$, they have forgotten my g..da.. name and wouldn't say hi to me on the street even tho' only yesterday they were humping my leg in the elevator!

 

[Richard Hed]

I have a set of holders RH LH center as well as cut off threading and boring bars from Banggood. I have been very satisfied with them and everything was probably about $100. I use them all of the time on the lathe. No complaints and I am still using the inserts which came with the originals.

Ho, yes, I bought several sets of tool holders because they came with 10 inserts--the whole set being cheaper than 10 inserts by gthemselves. the bits are good too.

 

[jirvin_4505]

Just a Wannabe try hard .. don’t know much hobbist

i buy banggood and AliExpress holders and inserts

its been a lesson in understanding insert numbers and material types. … so a lot of inappropriate purchaces!,

the videos of Stefen have guided my choices

the intro to this video is usefull



i settled on the little inserts mentioned plus did source some more expensive finishing inserts with small radius front England(in comments of video) I’m able to take of very fine cuts with the tools. Just looked and can’t seem to find them any more

plus a general troll around his Chanel watching what tooling he is using

following some chat on other forums I’ve also having good results cutting at hobbyist feeds and speeds using the ground polished aluminium inserts in steel. They are so economic from China that it’s worth the experiment
plus even have a play with diamond inserts due to low cost

the biggest mistake has been buying inserts that are too big and designed more for heavy duty lathes

i sourced (China) a holder to use all 4 sides of the ccmt inserts rather than make my own as stefan showed … was very economical

cheers jeff

i also get inspiration on economical hobby use of carbide in little lathes watching Larry…

 

[Brian Rupnow]

Just a brief update on the tooling I bought---I am very pleased with it. I've been using it for about a month and a half now, still using the original tip of the original carbide. ---Brian

 

[SpringHollow]

I just now happened to notice that you removed 1/8" from the QC tool holder. I would have just removed the 1/8" from the insert tools making them 3/8" instead of 1/2". The plus of how you did it is that you only had to do it once. The negative is that you have permanently modified a holder.

 

[SmithDoor]

Most my work I use HSS and grind for job. I do have a large supply of inserts but rarely use them.

Dave

My last design contract is finished and I have a little money to spend. I want to know a "top of the line" carbide inserts and holder to fit my quick change toolpost on my 12' x 28" lathe. I have tried the HSS inserts and holder from Arthur Warner, and although they work very well, they dull very quickly. They can be sharpened about 15 times before they are "done". I have tried another set of carbides and holders from Shars, but they too didn't seem to stand up very well. 95% of my lathe work is on mild steel or cold rolled steel less than 1 1/2" diameter, the remaining 5% is aluminum and very little brass. I have a bunch of brazed carbide tools that I was given, and I use them a fair amount. My general turning speed is 500 to 600 rpm. Probable about 1/4 of my work involves interrupted cuts. I see many guys using diamond shaped carbide inserts, and they have only two cutting points that can be used, but because of their shape they can get into tight places. I see other guys using triangular shaped inserts, which gives 3 available cutting edges, which seems more economical because you get three cutting "points" rather than the two cutting points you get from a diamond shaped carbide. I use my lathe a lot. Can somebody make a recommendation for tools that can be bought in North America. I am a bit lost in this quest, and would appreciate any advice from people who have used this tooling.----Brian rupnow

 

[roncohudd]

Most my work I use HSS and grind for job. I do have a large supply of inserts but rarely use them.

Dave

I usually try to find Iscar inserts. I use both diamond and triangle. Diamond gives me 4 corners triangle 6. My holders are usually 5/8 or 3/4 .

 

[abby]

I bought a set of holders and inserts for my Boxford lathe(British made Southbend clone) from Bangood. The holders needed about 1/16" milling off to bring them to centre height , the inserts seem to be ok.
I have bought several items from Bangood some have been good and some awful.
Dan

 

[SmithDoor]

I usually try to find Iscar inserts. I use both diamond and triangle. Diamond gives me 4 corners triangle 6. My holders are usually 5/8 or 3/4 .

I been using inserts since 1970.
I found out good hss sharpen correctly works great for lot jobs.
Now inserts just sit around in draw.
I also use brazed on carbide too.

Dave

 

[ajoeiam]

I usually try to find Iscar inserts. I use both diamond and triangle. Diamond gives me 4 corners triangle 6. My holders are usually 5/8 or 3/4 .

Sorry - - - diamond gives me 8 corners!!! (that's the C shape)

Quote <<<

Turning insert shape
The insert shape should be selected relative to the entering angle accessibility required for the tool. The largest possible nose angle should be selected to provide insert strength and reliability. However, this has to be balanced against the variation of cuts that need to be performed.

A large nose angle is strong, but requires more machine power and has a higher tendency for vibration.

A small nose angle is weaker and has a small cutting edge engagement, both of which can make it more sensitive to the effects of heat.

Cutting edge strength
(Large nose angle)

• Stronger cutting edge
• Higher feed rates
• Increased cutting force
• Increased vibration

Less vibration tendency
(Small nose angle)

• Increased accessibility
• Decreased vibration
• Decreased cutting force
• Weaker cutting edge

>>> end quote

4 of those corners are for serious metal removal! (That's the 100 degree corners.)

Missing from this list is Iscar's Q shape (it seems that this may no longer be available!!)
Take the W and give it 4 corners with the same bump out on each edge and you have the Q.
Guess it didn't sell well enough - - - bummer - - - theoretically it should have been a great insert shape!!!

I've only used the round in ceramics then it was the 'C's and then the 'I's.

Think a 'V' shape would be very useful if one could change the angle of the toolholder on the fly.

Have also done a lot of work using brazed on carbide - - - its quite fascinating pulling 0.250" of the radius in one cut!!
(Lots of fun when you has to scrape (better term than cut) the chrome off a cylinder rod that is deep chromed and deep hardened!!)