Mitutoyo or Starrett?

[TaxPhd]

I am planing on buying some measuring tools (6" caliper and 0-1" mic.), and I'm pretty sure that I don't want to go Chinese/cheap on these. The Mitutoyo and Starrett stuff seems to be at the cost/quality point I am looking at. I know for sure that I want digital for the caliper, but I have never used a digital mic. Is it worth it?

Any specific recommendations on specific models, and experiences with either of those brands (or others that you think I should consider) would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!




Scott

 

[rake60]

This is where personal opinions kick in....

So here's MINE! LOL

Starrett is an American company. Their tools they offer are of very high quality!
Most of them are manufactured in Mexico.

Mitutoyo is a Japanese company. Their tools are generally of a higher quality than
those offered by Starrett. Most Mitutoyo tools sold in the USA are manufactured
in Brazil.

Either one has to be better than something from China Eh?
If it costs more it HAS to be better....

For a 6" caliper a dial Mitutoyo can't be beat by any other manufacturer.

Mics are a different story. A micrometer is a c-clamp with a precision ground 40 TPI
in it's thimble. One full turn of the thimble is exactly .025"
It's pretty tough to screw that up.

My own home 0 to 6" outside mic set IS from China.

It was purchased from CME Tools for $77 UDS.
The Mitutoyo set averages $860 for the same ratchet stop style.

A Mitutoyo 0 - 1" mic runs about $98

Some tools are worth the extra. Some are not...

Once again, this is a personal opinion.
I've quite sure many will follow.

Rick

 

[ksouers]

You won't go wrong with either of those two brands. They are both high quality materials and workmanship.

I haven't used an electronic digital mike, but I used a Brown & Sharp mechanical digital many years ago. It had a clockwork that ticked over the digits. I didn't like it much. I much prefer the analog type mike. I guess it has something to do with seeing your measurement in context with the surrounding numbers. I get an instant visual cue on where I am in relation to where I want to be. With digital I have to think it out. Then again, it could just be that I'm a dinosaur ;D

On the other hand I prefer digital calipers. I have an old Yuasa vernier caliper, but my eyes are getting too old to read it any more. I got my old caliper and mikes (Japanese, I believe) through one of the machine shops I worked in at the time many years ago. They seemed expensive at the time but really weren't and they've held up very well for the past 30 years. I haven't used any Chinese mikes so can't comment on their quality, or lack there of.

I also have some of the cheapo Chinese digital calipers and dial and test indicators. They actually seem to be quite good. Certainly good enough for the kind of hobby work I do now. I do keep my eyes open at estate sales and garage sales for the good stuff. This is Boeing/McDonnell Douglas territory and every once in a while something good turns up. We also have/had Ford, Chevy and Chrysler plants, and lots of smallish job shops.

You also might want to keep an eye on Craig's List. I've seen some Starrett tools show up there often, though to date it's been gone before I get to it

 

[greenie]

At work I use both types, the good 'uns, Mitutoyo and the elcheapo's, the chinesey 6 pack box full.

Now you can check both types with the same gauges, both show the exact same measurement, so you now tell me what the difference between the cheapo's and the expensive ones is.

Have a look at the cheapo's before you lay out your hard earned dollars, take along your favorite mike and setting gauge and check out the cheapo's against it, you WILL be surprised, at what you find.




regards greenie

 

[Hexbasher]

as a blue collar machinist, most my tool at mitutoyo and they are ALL made in japan minus my two mag-bases which are made in Brazil

i have :
0-1, 1-2, 2-3,3-4,4-5,6-7 0.0001" mics
0-1 0.001" mic
0-1 0.001" 30deg point mic
0-1 0.0001 multianvil mic
0-25,25-50,50-75,75-100 mm mics
0-6 0.001" depth mics
1-2 0.001 inside mic
2-12 0.001" inside mic
6-7 0.001 inside mic
0-12 inch dial caliper
0-8 inch dial caliper
300mm dial caliper
6 inch digi caliper
6 inch carbide vernier (1/128" + 0.001")
four 1 inch dial indicators
0.1 x 0.0005 dial indicator
0.01 x 0.0001inch test dial
0.03 x 0.0005inch test dial
2 micron test dial
plus tons of scales, 12 spring calipers
1/4 to 6 inch telescopic gage set
small hole gage set
1 to 4 inch bore gage
1/64 to 1/2 5in-1 radius gage set
4-in1 angle gage set
bevel protractor
unified thread gage
mm pitch thread gage
center gage
number drill gage
metric radius gage
afew smaller random decimal 5in1 radius gages (plus a 0.55 and 0.6)

;D(all of these have stamped/engraved 'MADE IN JAPAN')


i trust all my tools....i've literally throw shop-owned chinese mics in the scrape bins at my last shop because they're dangerous, inaccurate, and unreliable

 

[kf2qd]

I have always preferred the Starrets. A bit better feel in the hand and a bit lighter weight.

 

[Mcgyver]

you know what they say about opinions, right? there's no right and wrong

.......i have none of the cheapo stuff, well except for one caliper to see what the fuss was about. it was enough. Aside from longevity and accuracy concerns, they just aren't as nice to use. Don't under estimate this last point - its a hobby and supposed to be fun and they good stuff is a lot more enjoyable to use. ... and I don't think its all economics, people would be better off with the basics of excellent quality rather than one of everything of dubious quality, but rush seems to be to quantity rather than quality.

Buy the good stuff and the grand kids will be using it. Good news is most of the good stuff can be had used for not that much more than the junk. For example, i agree the Mit 0-6 set is prohibitive but you should be able to get a brand named used 0-1 and 1-2 mic for about the same money and its rare to need beyond a 2" mic for home shop work

I disagree with Rick that the mitutoyo are better than the Starrett. I have lots of both, think the Mitutoyo are good tools and will buy them again but nothing about them causes me to think they are better than Starrett.....again just a viewpoint.

Nicest I've got are Etalon (swiss), have a mic and dial caliper and they are beautifully made.

 

[zeusrekning]

My personal opinon.
6" mitutoyo dig caliper
Decent import 0-6" Mic set
If need be 0-1" Dig mitutoyo mics.

This is assuming you are working on the small scale that most here work.
Zeusrekning

 

[Bogstandard]

This post is very similar to the lathe wars one.

You use what you are comfortable with, and can afford.

In one company that I worked for (and soon to be again), the metrology lab used to have to calibrate all tools that came into the factory.
No matter how expensive the digital calipers were, the first thing they did was to grind off the inside measuring fingers (shows what they thought of the accuracy of those). They were then issued out with a warning that they were not to be used for final measurement as they were too inaccurate, because of personal 'feel' and the actual width of jaws in contact with the measured part.

By their own design, they are open to question as to accuracy (clock verniers have a totally different way of getting a reading and are classed as more accurate). If at all possible, I measure by using pressure from either side of the jaws using my left hand and supporting the scale with my right, not the usual method of holding by the scale and using thumb pressure on the casing to take the reading. Not viable for anything over about 3" wide, that is when I would use a mic anyway.

OK the expensive ones are a lot better made, and will last a lot longer, but my descendants can buy their own (think of slide rules and how they became obsolete). I have about a dozen sets of cheap digital adjustable (and disposable) spanners knocking about the place, and are used for 'near enough measurement', not final, that is when the mics come in.

With regards to mics, again, it is down to personal preference. My 'first size' mics are Moore & Wright, and have been ever since I started many years ago. I have a collection of all sorts, from your fabled Mitutoyo to Chinese imports, and would gladly, in the environment I am in, use any of them side by side. How accurate do you really need to be?

In industry it is different, but unless they are calibrated and checked regularly by a reputable metrology lab, no matter how much you have paid for them, they are worth no more for measuring than a six inch rule, only your own knowledge that you have paid a lot of money for precision 'c' spanners. Your little setting gauges are for checking only, between metrology visits.
The worst thing they ever did was to include an adjusting spanner in the box. It turns everybody into a so called 'expert' in precision setup, throw the damned things away. If it goes out of calibration, you have either damaged the mic or it is worn out, and should be checked over by a specialist anyway.

It is not too long ago that anything with 'Made in Japan' on it was classed as junk. How soon before 'Made in China' gets the seal of approval? My guess, a lot sooner than you thought.

So please gents, no elitism needed.
Nice to have and use, but it is a personal thing.

John

 

[Stan]

On mics, I agree with Rick. A cheap mic will measure a lot better than no mic. I find frequent use for mics up to 4" and occasionally bigger. I think I posted a picture of my Tesla Turbine which has lot of pieces between 7" and 8".

On calipers, I agree with John. They are for an approximate measurement at the best of times.

When I started in this hobby, I had one Moore and Wright 0 - 1 mic and everything over that was measured with a rule. Any measuring tools on the market were high quality and high price. Hobbyists are very fortunate to be able to buy import tools at reasonable price that will meet their needs.

 

[TaxPhd]

Thanks everybody, this was the kind of feedback I was looking for.

Mcgyver, my feelings on this are similar to yours. I like the feel of the Mitutoyo better than the Chinese caliper. I like having quality equipment, and while I have felt the pain of the expense of quality, I have never regretted it. I have regretted buying cheap.



Scott

 

[BobWarfield]

I like my Mitutoyo calipers much better than the imports. However, I think I have that same box o' mics that Rick has. They're ratchet style, and when I compare them to a new Mitu 0-1" digital and an older 1-2" Mitu, I think they feel about the same. I can get about the same accuracy, though I am slower with the verniers than the digitals.

It would be hard for me to pay an awful lot fo mics after the experience.

I have a cheap height gage, but would like to try a more expensive one. The thing about the calipers is they feel nice when they have about the right amount of smooth drag, and I can't seem to get any of my imports to get that feel compared to my mitutoyo calipers, so I bought another pair when I saw one fairly cheap on eBay.

I have a bunch of Starrett measuring instruments too and they all seem nicely made. I really don't have a problem with most of the import stuff though. I check it with the expensive instruments, gage blocks, and so on, and it seems to be spot on so far. Love my cheapo "Blake" Coax indicator, for example.

Cheers,

BW

 

[greenie]

as a blue collar machinist, most my tool at mitutoyo and they are ALL made in japan minus my two mag-bases which are made in Brazil


i trust all my tools....i've literally throw shop-owned chinese mics in the scrape bins at my last shop because they're dangerous, inaccurate, and unreliable

Could you please explain this last bit about - " dangerous, inaccurate, and unreliable."

How can they be dangerous, for christ sake, they are only a micrometer.

If the Mitutoyos and the elcheapo's ALL read the same with the SAME setting gauge, then how in the hell can they be inaccurate ?

Unreliable, eh, what you using them for, a bloody G clamp for holding bits so you can weld the bits together ?

This elitist bit is so infuriating for THIS particular Aussie, where I personally dont give a ****, about where a tool is made or what brand is printed on it, if it works, then it WORKS.

If you were tossing them about the workshop and deliberately buggering them up, OK, then I'll agree that they could be inaccurate then. The same goes for a Mitutoyo under those circumstances.

regards greenie --- blue collar worker as well, since 1965, I personally cant see why there is such a difference, as they ALL do the EXACT same job.

 

[Mcgyver]

There's nothing elitist about it, and i think you guys referencing this are being so are being bit incendiary....opinions were asked for and given; no need to name call - your choice or opinion doesn't infuriate me why should mine yours? ;D

it can almost be viewed as a branding issue. The generic Chinese tool industry has had so many outrageous quality infractions (vises snapping in two, blue paint for thread locker etc) over such a period of time that for anyone serious about metal working it is hard to trust those tools. That it isn't branded should be a heads up.

The strength of a brand is its trust. Mitutoyo and Starrett among professionals and serious hobbyist have over the years produced a very different defect:success ratio than the no name Chinese products. That these brands are favoured is no accident. The evidence is anecdotal however it would be swimming upstream to go against the billions of hours of professional experience the result of which generally trusts brands like Starrett and Mit. Mit & Starrett's brands are a significant intangible asset whereas the generic Chinese firm will have next to no brand equity. Protecting and adding to this value through producing quality makes business sense for Mit and Starrett whereas it makes little sense for the generic manufacturer - their name isn't even on the product in many cases. The retailer carrying their products, harbour freight or busy bee, sell on price to non professionals not on quality so in this channel there isn't a stakeholder focused on quality. Yes all things being equal they will try to make and sell better stuff, but there is not the alignment of interests toward making quality that there is with the worlds large branded manufacturers.

This of course can change over time, there is obviously nothing inherently in being Chinese that prevents one from making excellent tools; would it matter the heritage of an excellent worker in a Starrett plant? of course not, that is a ridiculous completely racist proposition. However its equally irrational to ignore the business drivers that make the current situation what it is. May be now, and in the future there are quality products from China that erroneously get painted with the 'low quality' brush....but to deny the history of outrageous QA infractions of Chinese made tools is sticking your head in the sand.

aside from the tool being properly finished and nice to use, its a matter of trust. I don't trust the generic chinese tool maker; they've damaged that trust so many times in the past and that they aren't branded suggests they aren't really focused on conducting themselves in a manner to build that trust for the future. I disagree a mic is c clamp, it is one of the most precisely made instruments in the shop. There's all kinds complexity i can imagine that would go into make an excellent mic that will be dependably accurate today and in the future, thread grinding, heat treating, stress relieving, what materials are used etc etc. Maybe those chinese sets are the exception; the tools that have broken through. But I don't have the time or equipment to assay it in extreme detail. I'll take a Starrett, M&W, B&S, Mitutoyo or Etalon because the the odds are in my favour. I'd go with the good mic and cheapo caliper if i had to have one of each; a caliper is just an approximation, a mic needs to be relied upon.

anyway, buy whatever suits you...however i don't think it is fair to name call how I've gone about it as elitism is if there weren't good reasons for the position.

I also underscore that it doesn't have to be an economic decision. I've bought a lot of used tools over the years, patience and careful selection goes a long way toward equalizing the cost of the two.

 

[TaxPhd]

I am pretty certain that I will get a digital caliper, as that is what I have been using, I'm comfortable with it, and I like it. However, the mics I have been using aren't digital, and I have no experience with a digital mic. Are they worth the extra cost?



Scott

 

[Mcgyver]

Scott, the digital are convenient, but at the expense of bulk and weight. they're also more money. when I'm mentally lazy i grab the digital mic. when i'm physically lazy i grab the regular. when I'm both, I post.

 

[Stan]

Scott:

I don't want to go Chinese/cheap on these. The Mitutoyo and Starrett stuff seems to be at the cost/quality point I am looking at.

On looking back at your first post, it appears that cost is not the big factor with you, that it is with many of the posters. I don't think anyone will argue that if you pay premium price, you can have nicer looking?, better feel?, more pride? etc, etc, because these are all subjective.

The point many were making is that with limited finances, you can buy measuring tools that will do the job on a lot wider range than just 0 - 1" for the price of one premium tool. Every poster has made their own choice, and ultimately the choice is yours.

 

[TaxPhd]

Scott:
On looking back at your first post, it appears that cost is not the big factor with you, that it is with many of the posters.

I don't mind paying for quality, but I don't want to pay unnecessarily. For example, when I buy my mill, I will buy a clamping kit to go with it. I could go inexpensive Chinese, or more more expensive American. Will the American be worth the extra cost? Probably not (to me), as I don't see enough difference in performance, or any other factor, to justify the extra expense.



Scott

 

[rake60]

There is a difference between inexpensive and cheap.

I was approached buy a salesman who wanted to available to all HMEM members,
a dial test indicator that looked very much like a Starrett Last Word for $17 each.

First thing I noticed was on the literature was a simple symbol of an airplane with
a red circle and slash through it with the words:
Not DOT Approved below it.

Moving the needle resulted in a sound that reminded me of winding up the old
spring powered alarm clock I had when I was a kid.

He didn't sell any of them here!
Not sure what he did do with them, but I DID make a suggestion!

Rick

 

[greenie]

However, the mics I have been using aren't digital, and I have no experience with a digital mic. Are they worth the extra cost?



Scott

If your eyesight is a bit crook, then the digital micrometers are worth the extra, as you can read them very easily. If you can still read a normal micrometer with NO problems, then they are a bit expensive.

regards greenie.