Measuring Instruments

[agmachado]

Hi All,

Here in Brazil, we have access to some brands such as Mitutoyo, Starrett and others ... But Mitutoyo, for example are very expensive and I know that are very good. Starrett has better prices.

To start my home shop, would use a digital micrometer (0-1"), a digital caliper (0-6") and a digital dial indicator, all Starrett.

What do you think of Starrett ?

What is another measurement instrument that may be useful early on?

Thanks,

Alexandre

 

[ttrikalin]

Starrett is first class. You CANNOT go wrong!
Made in Athol, MA, just a few miles from where I live. Many people in the US will rank Starrett higher than Mitutoyo.

I own Mitutoyo calipers, Starrett 0-1" mike, and a set of 0-3" chinese mikes.

That being said, with any modern brandname tool you are set.

Work on the technique of measuring though.

If sthg is critical, mike it -- do not rely on calipers.
Others who know more will let you know.

BTW, the room you showed in another post seems great for sherline size equipment!

Take care,

tom in MA.

 

[ieezitin]

Alex.

Digital is fine but has limitations accuracy being one, temperature being second.

Mechanical measuring devices I find are more accurate and reliable. Starrett is an excellent manufacturer and the same is to be said of Mitutoyo. If you purchase either brand make sure you protect and keep them in good condition. These devices are the holy grail in any shop and should be treated as such.

Buy cheap digiverns and use them for reference and getting close to the desired size then rely on the mechanical quality measuring tooling to zero yourself in.

This is such a volatile topic and eons of talk has been spoken but in my humble opinion mechanical measuring tools never lie unless you miss read them.

Hope this helps. Anthony.

 

[ttrikalin]

If you have not yet bought measuring instruments, and if you're tight on the budget, dare I suggest you get a set of new no-name chinese mikes and calipers. No need to be digital.

The chinese mikes set me back ~$40 for a set of 3 (0-1", 1-2", 2-3").

I use my no name Chinese mikes all the time, and they are very fine for the work I do (and I do work under the microscope on several projects).

I use the Starrett digital mike rarely (it is such a lovely instrument, so smooth...). I go mine used for a very good price, and had it calibrated (turned out it was OK in the first place.) I have it aside.

tom in MA

 

[agmachado]

Hi Tom,

How are you ?

Great information!!! Here, Starrett was best known for manufacturing saws for metals... instruments for precision measuring is recent.

I have not bought yet... interesting this!

Hi Anthony, thanks for your information, forever help !

Alexandre

 

[steamer]

Starrett.....simply the best

You can't go wrong with Starrett.......

Dave

 

[Chazz]

Hi there, if budget is a concern, I've used a place called tresnainstruments.com and am extremely pleased with the quality\price ratio. Not to mention 'free' GLOBAL shipping!

Note, my experience is here in Canada and our customs laws have a few options for duty free items such as, a gift, a sample or if there is no manufacturer of the item here in Canada plus others. Anyway they were shipped as samples, so, no duty and free shipping means you pay what you see on their site.

One other aside. I ordered myself a laser edge finder out of the States (United) at the same time I place an order with Tresna. My edge finder from California took 4 weeks, whilst my Tresna order from China (to Hong Kong, then Vancouver,BC, then Edmonton, AB) and dropped off to my office in Yellowknife, NWT by a courier company was 7 days! Thm:

Just 2 cents.

Chazz

 

[t_ottoboni]

Alexandre,

If you are going to buy a micrometer, look for a telescoping gauge too. That way you can measure holes with the same accuracy.

Also, if you really want a Mitutoyo or a Starret digital mic, please DON'T buy it here in Brazil. Even with the import tax and shipping, it's cheaper to buy outside. We only have to find out where to buy (I think Enco don't ship to Brazil).

Have a look at a dial indicator, or a dial test indicator too, as they will be very usefull in the lathe for you!


Tarik

 

[lazylathe]

Hi Alexandre!

I would get a cheaper set of digital for rough measurement and then chack final dimension with a good set of mechanical ones.

I was on the Tresna site (great link!) and saw the DRO scales you were looking for.
Here is a link to them:
http://www.tresnainstrument.com/product/q15.html

Talk later!

Andrew

 

[kcmillin]

Hello Alexandre,

Here is my two cents on measuring devices.

I only use a caliper for rough measuring, like finding the size of stock material.
Once I switched from using a caliper to a micrometer, making parts got a lot eaiser, because the measurment was correct. Even the best caliper is only accurate to .001. Which is a lot when trying to make a piston to fit a bore.

As far a digital vs mechanical. I would go with mechanical. Or a combo of the two. Look for "Digit" micrometers. These have a mechanical "counter" that is as easy to read as an electric one, without the flickering and dead batteries.

Starret is indeed a great product. However the "Cheap" Chinese micrometers are of decent quality, and I would say good enough for everyone except NASA.

You can get a set of micrometers for the price of one Starret. This will also leave room to purchase more micrometers in the future, like inside micrometers, blade micrometers, and depth micrometers. You can find these on e-bay for a reasonable price. (When I do a search for micrometers on E-Bay, I always get about 2 - 5000 results. So there is no shortage of micrometers, and pleantly of good deals every day)

Kel

 

[Loose nut]

If the Starrett tools are more then 25 years old and in good (still accurate) condition then they are the best you can get. The newer stuff not so much.

They have had to make economy model to compete just like they other instrument companies and some of their stuff, that we can afford for a home shop, isn't any better then the cheap Chinese stuff and they are not alone. Most of the Fowler tools that I have seen lately are just Chinese crap rebranded, up to 20 or so years ago Fowler was a top brand.

If you can find the older tools in good condition, that are a good price, then that is the way to go. Look for Moore and Wright, Mitutoyo , Starret, old Fowler and others. I just picked up an old Starret Model 440-A depth Mic two days ago and the thimble turns so smooth that it feels like silk.

Just because it isn't a well known name doesn't mean it is any good either. There used to be many little known tool makers that are long gone that made great tools. Compare an old "quality" mic thimble to a new, what many consider decent quality, Chinese tools and you will feel the difference.

You can still do good work with the newer cheap tools but if you can get older, still accurate tools, they are better.

 

[rake60]

Starrett tools are great. Mitutoyo tools are even better.

I'm surprised that the Mitutoyo tools are more expensive in Brazil.
I know where many of their products are manufactured.
Such as this battle worn magnetic base in my home shop tool box.

I've has that base for 21 years. It isn't pretty, but I'd bet it will still be in use
another 20 years from now.

For some tools I prefer Starrett.
My center finder, edge finder and hole attachment are all from Starrett.
OK, The 6" dial caliper is a Mitutoyo...

My big inside mics (1 1/2 to 32") are also Starrett.
I keep them at work. Not much use for them in the hobby shop.

My outside mics are Pacific Rim imports that I paid less than $80 for from CME
I have no complaints about them at all!

Understand that ALLof my Mitutoyo and Starrett tools were purchased while I was a
working machinist in a job shop. We got them at the company's cost and paid for them
through a payroll deduction plan that averaged $20 per pay.
If it hadn't been for that ALL of my home hobby tools would be Pacific Rim imports!

In many cases, precision doesn't come from the tool, it comes from the user.
I expect that comment to raise a firestorm here, but it is the truth!

Yes there are some junk tool manufactures out there, but for the most part the cheap tools
will do everything the expensive stuff will do. It just needs to be handled within it's limits.

Rick

 

[agmachado]

First, thanks all for the informations provided !

I'm considering these all informations.

Really I agree that more important is the form of the use of the instruments.

Rick... Yes here have a factory of the Mitutoyo, but the taxes are very expensive and for export, there is agreement of tax reduction. The people always loses.

The CME website have a very good prices!!! I will study it.

Guys,

And... What do you use to measure internal diameters of cylinders or bearings ?

Thanks,

Alexandre

 

[t_ottoboni]

Starrett tools are great. Mitutoyo tools are even better.

I'm surprised that the Mitutoyo tools are more expensive in Brazil.

Rick, last year I bought a Mitutoyo 0-1" digital micrometer at Enco for U$120. The same mic cost U$570 here in Brazil...
I know.... it's a shame!

 

[vedoula]

In many cases, precision doesn't come from the tool, it comes from the user.
I expect that comment to raise a firestorm here, but it is the truth!

Yes there are some junk tool manufactures out there, but for the most part the cheap tools
will do everything the expensive stuff will do. It just needs to be handled within it's limits.

Very thoughtful observation.
thanks

 

[rake60]

Alexandre

Bore measuring tools depend on the bore size.
For bores over 1/2" I use telescopic gauges.
My own were also purchased from CME.

Out of the box, they weren't so great. They had a gritty feel to them and would stick at
random positions. I disassembled each one, cleaned the "dragon grease" out of them and
polished up any rough edges. After that they work great!

Now that sounds like a lot of work to make a cheap tool set work as it should.
There are many other options available at Enco.
Actually they offer the exact same import set as CME for double the price.
Anyway, for the price difference, I don't mind doing a little tune up on the cheap tools for myself.

For holes under 1/2" I use Small Hole Gages. You'll find them by scrolling down a bit on THIS page
of the Enco Catalog.

Again, the range of prices for the same tools.

Rick

 

[GWRdriver]

In many cases, precision doesn't come from the tool, it comes from the user.
I expect that comment to raise a firestorm here - rick

It might, but that is certainly the case and is also the case with machine tools. My first mentor told me early-on that eventually I would learn to "feel" 1000ths (and finer) when using measuring tools and sure enough eventually I did. It's simply a matter or practice and wanting to play accurately.

As for Starrett, most of my measuring tools are Starrett (because that's what my mentor used) and all are at least 20 years old, and I'm happy with them. I have a couple of items I thought I'd use but haven't, but that's due to personal preference and not the fault of the tools. I have recently seen/heard comments (ie rumors) that Starrett has gone off-shore and the quality of their tools has taken a nosedive. I don't know if those comments are true, I hope not, and I haven't needed a Starrett tool lately to see for myself, but I would like to know if anyone can shed any light on this. Also, once upon a time Browning was at least an equal to Starrett and in a few instances, dial calipers was one, Browning was preferred to Starrett. Times have not always been good but even so I've always tried when possible to buy a quality tool, and spend the money once. I have never regretted buying a 1st-quality tool, but almost every time I've bought cheap, thinking it wouldn't matter, I ended up having to buy it again (or wishing I could buy it again.)

Relative to good manual precision tools, from my viewpoint we should be in a period of relatively good times for the amatuer machinist because he WW2 generation of machinists (both professional and amatuer) are passing away but their machines and toolboxes remain. My first mentor (mentioned above) recently passed away after a 70+ years as machinist (started at 16) and then live steamer. His home workshop and many others like it will be a treasure trove of fine old tools, all with many years of use left on the clock.