Linux "Q4OS"

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Steamchick

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Hi Richard,
Calm down and look after number 1. DO NOT be beaten by MS. I too had a hard time when it hit me. - 3 days to get stuff off MY C-drive to continue MY work - after finding suitable non-MS software and loading to my PC. Mentally, as difficult to cope with as Covid!
The MS strategy of taking EVERYTHING to the cloud (their ownership) is corrupt. We must change our life-styles and daily practices to avoid being "consumed" by Big Brother MS. I am sure it is more than a CIA conspiracy to counter corruption on the net. The corrupt are cleverer than most - so will find it easier to beat the system. But we "lesser mortals" - who go about an honest life - will loose our independence, privacy, control of our ideas and creations, etc. to this MS action. I shall unplug before the cloud will get my stuff.
But how can we stop this action, when the people doing it control the communication routes? They have simply been clever, and followed the "revolution handbook" that says "First, control all communication so the masses only get the right message". The hidden part is "and so we get all the anti-revolution messages and can stop them". If we thought that some facist and communist governments were corrupt, surely the same rules apply here? But who can control MS? - They are richer than (almost?) any government?
Here endeth my rant.
K2
 

stanstocker

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Hi Folks,

Sort of an interesting thread here, lots of opinions...

I've disliked MS for many years, have run linux since it came on 5 5 1/4 inch floppies and actually had SCO Xenix and Mark Williams Coherent running before that. Even back in the PC-DOS days most of the unix command line utilities were available on my machines. I wrote software as part of my job for many years, everything from assembler and embedded microcode to C, C++, HTML, PHP, Java, Python, and Visual Basic. Even some COBOL on mainframes. I've changed hardware, languages, and OS platforms more times than cars for sure.

Sadly, still have to have a few windoze boxes around for:

Digital Audio Workstations that support virtual instruments. Most linux based DAWs support VSTs, but not Windows VSTs. Sadly most of the really good VSTs are only built for MS or Mac. Ubuntu Studio is good, but just not good enough.

All the Arturia music synthesizer stuff, Cherry Audio Voltage Modular, and Soft Tube Amp Room. VCV and VCV2 are quite excellent, but all the rest are just not available in a linux flavor. (edited at 17:39 to fix a few grammatical errors - AKA fingers faster than brain...)

Real Flight RC flight simulator.

Alibre Atom. The most recent release of Freecad looks a lot better than previous ones, maybe this need will go away.

GWizard

My tax software. Probably fine in a VM, will see this year.

All day to day stuff, image processing, video editing, web and email, listening to music, and home theater gets done on Linux Mint or devices running embedded linux. Windows 10 is available on a VM on my main box, but it's sort of pointless as few of the windows only apps that are important to me run well in the VM. I've checked this with both QEMU and VirtualBox. I might get some time to play with adding a dedicated video card to the VM, but quite a few other things are just sort of iffy in the world of VMs, particularly drive access and some USB hardware.

Automatic updates are turned off on the windows machines, just to keep the folks at micro soft (small, flaccid?) from arbitrarily mucking about. Updates are checked around once a month, and SOME are applied, others are ignored.

I looked at the Q4OS page, but just didn't see anything that made me consider installing it. Just like windows, using a distribution that is very popular increases the odds of easily finding some help when you want to do something a bit off the beaten path.

It's almost a religious obsession with some folks, to convert the unwashed to the one true way (be it Mac, Windows, or linux), but at the end of the day it's just a tool like any other tool. Anything beyond the simplest tool has quirks and things you wish were different, but the idea is to actually get something done, not to spend all day gazing upon the magnificence of the one true lathe, mill, or operating system.

Cheers,
Stan
 
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Thank yew for that. Honesty, I expected them to update it to be more user friendly to those who are not idiots but still don't have the energy to dig into the deeper workings of the system.
I've had really good experiences with the Ubuntu live thumb drive and the CD. Plus the user group is almost troll free.

Ron
 

aarggh

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Funnily enough a lot of the people being hassled to upgrade to MS 11 won't be able to as their PC/laptop may not support it. It has pretty stringent requirements for TPM 2.0 being supported and enabled, otherwise the pre-install check fails. There's current model laptops being sold on the market that don't support MS 11 so those people are screwed for an upgrade path if they wanted it.

Having said that, there's some great (genuine) utility sites out there that have scripts that can help disable things like the telemetry, upgrade nags, etc.
 

RM-MN

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I started reading instructions fpr Linux - My brain froze!
K2
Have you read similar instructions for Windows? Be prepared for a brain freeze there too. None of us was born with understanding of computer systems, you have learned Windows over years of use.
 

Richard Hed

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I started reading instructions fpr Linux - My brain froze!
K2
Brain freeze out of delight? I take it? So what is your intent today? take it in small steps and tell us what you are intending to do. We can help. Are you intending to install it permanently on your hard drive? Be sure to check "dual boot" before you do.
 

stanstocker

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For many folks the hardest part of installing linux is getting past the UEFI boot loader in modern BIOS. This is unrelated to linux, and more related to either 1) Microsofts continued desire to rule and regulate every breath you take by "influencing" systems and motherboard manufacturers OR 2) a genuine desire to enhance system security. It's not always easy to change the BIOS settings to allow booting anything other than the manufacturers installed OS.

Once past getting the system to boot from either the DVD drive or a USB device installation is pretty quick and usually painless. Dual boot or replacing windows is up to you.

Once up and running, most desktops are similar to what folks are already used to, with menu entries logically grouped usually. I would say going from Windows to Linux desktops is about as much of a change as going from Windows 7 with the traditional desktop to Windows 10. A pain in the butt now and then, occasional internet searches to figure out where something is that isn't where it used to be, same old same old, just like new versions of windows. If you choose some oddball distribution for your first experiment with linux, you are making a poor choice. Stick to one of the mainstream distributions. I like linux mint, standard Ubuntu is good. If you choose the Kazakhstan Hannah Montana build with the Futurama desktop in special edition dark grey on black theme have fun, let us know how it works out for you...

My new Toyota Tacoma is very different from my 2000 Tacoma, which was very different from my 1985 Toyota base model pickup. Some fumbling to find controls, some grousing about things that are or at least seem stupid. Pedals and steering wheel are still in the same places at least :)

To blow out a few old truths that are no longer true:

1) Linux doesn't work with most hardware. BS. Scanners can be a bit odd to set up although the Japanese Epson and Canon sites often have linux native applications in English, they just aren't on the US sites. Anyone smell the stench of microslop? Lightweight desktops and file managers don't always handle automounting removable storage well. This is only something I've run into when trying to keep utterly obsolete computers somewhat useful or oddly enough with the current builds of Ubuntu Studio - which uses the lightweight xfce desktop. Never have issues with linux mint and removable storage. I hated xfce the first time I ever had to use it, can't say it's gotten much better over time. Not everything in the linux world is sweetness and light.

1a) Video - Most video cards are reasonably to excellently supported under linux. If you have a strict only open source on my machine, no proprietary drivers allowed view you will still be able to use decent hardware, but may not get the optimal possible results. After doing the initial installation, you may need or want to install the video card manufacturers driver set. This may appear in the drivers part of your settings panel, or in linux mint there is a system checkup that will advise you the drivers are available, recommend which is the best option for the machine, and give you the option of installing it. Usually a reboot is required after installation. You may need to right click on the open area of the desktop to select your desired resolution and optionally change font sizes and icon sizes. This is particularly true if using a 4K monitor. Just as I had to make these changes on my windows machines, I've had to make them on linux machines. Icons and fonts were just too small on a 4K display. Not anything really different from Windows with updating drivers, there just are a lot less driver updates needed. To be fair, Windows 10 has greatly reduced the need to manually install all sorts of drivers, on that front at least they have taken a lesson from the linux world.

2) Linux sucks for gaming. Yup, got to say this is correct in comparison to gaming consoles, where most gaming is done these days. Steam and a few others allow quite a lot of games to run on linux, but odds are it's wrong for you if gaming is a major requirement. So is windows in many cases though, seems xBox and PSx consoles rule, with nVidia Shield bringing up the last of the top three. Windows PC gaming is still more flexible than linux. Both linux and Windows share the pain of ridiculously inflated video card prices, neither one can get you past that mess.

3) You have to use the command line to do anything. Once upon a time this was true, just as it was in the days of PC-DOS and MS-DOS. In both windows and linux access to a command prompt is sometimes required, in other cases it may let you do things quicker or more efficiently. I use linux everyday and seldom need to open a terminal. Don't be surprised to see command line answers to many requests for help on line, they tend to avoid any odd desktop configuration variables.

4) There's still a few folks doing the FUD balderdash. Ever tried to actually get customer support from Microsoft? Ever bothered to look at all the sites that tell you the equivalent applications in the open source world? If you truly need 100 percent compatibility with microsoft applications such as office, you need to run windows and microsoft office. I never had any issues exchanging word documents with clients when using open-office and later Libre-Office. If we were using macro laden spreadsheets my results could have been worse. If you use the most obscure hidden features in photoshop, darkroom, or premier you need your Adobe subscription. For the vast majority of folks though, most all you need is out there unless (as I posted earlier) you require something that just isn't well supported in a way you like under linux.

4a) If you want to see if an app is good enough, most all of the open source applications are available for Windows as well as linux. You don't have to change operating systems to change your office or photo applications if you're tired of the subscription model for software.

5) You don't need to worry about viruses with linux. Sadly not true, the first virus (actually a worm) was on unix networks. Viruses are very rare. Clam-AV is a good virus scanner. It's not a big thing, but just as with windows, not opening up every port on the machine, staying behind a router that does NAT (if you're on broadband and have or can have multiple machines / TV's connected you're likely behind a NAT firewall), and running a local firewall are all things that are never bad decisions no matter what operating system you are using. Apply patches. Linux tells you when updates are available, you don't have to put up with being in the middle of a zoom conference and have your system arbitrarily do a 20 minute update and reboot without asking if it's OK.

6) But, but, but, if I don't have a microsoft approved browser I can't do all the online things I have to do!!!! Ever noticed that most of the world does the same stuff on their phones? Apple and Android don't have microsoft browsers, go figure. I use Brave as a default browser as it tends to scuttle the overlords constant attempts to monetize web use. Firefox work fine, so does Chromium. Chromium is NOT chrome! Chrome is a google data harvesting app hidden in a browser, chromium is open source.

And finally, use the tool that meets YOUR needs. Or have more than one tool, refurbished computers are often a really good deal, and being one or two CPU generations behind typically doesn't really matter in terms of actual performance. Replacing an old spinning disk hard drive with an SSD, and maybe bumping up the RAM will often give a huge increase in performance at a much lower cost than buying the latest and greatest machine regardless of your operating system.

Cheers,
Stan
 

Richard Hed

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For many folks the hardest part of installing linux is getting past the UEFI boot loader in modern BIOS. This is unrelated to linux, and more related to either 1) Microsofts continued desire to rule and regulate every breath you take by "influencing" systems and motherboard manufacturers OR 2) a genuine desire to enhance system security. It's not always easy to change the BIOS settings to allow booting anything other than the manufacturers installed OS.

Once past getting the system to boot from either the DVD drive or a USB device installation is pretty quick and usually painless. Dual boot or replacing windows is up to you.

Once up and running, most desktops are similar to what folks are already used to, with menu entries logically grouped usually. I would say going from Windows to Linux desktops is about as much of a change as going from Windows 7 with the traditional desktop to Windows 10. A pain in the butt now and then, occasional internet searches to figure out where something is that isn't where it used to be, same old same old, just like new versions of windows. If you choose some oddball distribution for your first experiment with linux, you are making a poor choice. Stick to one of the mainstream distributions. I like linux mint, standard Ubuntu is good. If you choose the Kazakhstan Hannah Montana build with the Futurama desktop in special edition dark grey on black theme have fun, let us know how it works out for you...

My new Toyota Tacoma is very different from my 2000 Tacoma, which was very different from my 1985 Toyota base model pickup. Some fumbling to find controls, some grousing about things that are or at least seem stupid. Pedals and steering wheel are still in the same places at least :)

To blow out a few old truths that are no longer true:

1) Linux doesn't work with most hardware. BS. Scanners can be a bit odd to set up although the Japanese Epson and Canon sites often have linux native applications in English, they just aren't on the US sites. Anyone smell the stench of microslop? Lightweight desktops and file managers don't always handle automounting removable storage well. This is only something I've run into when trying to keep utterly obsolete computers somewhat useful or oddly enough with the current builds of Ubuntu Studio - which uses the lightweight xfce desktop. Never have issues with linux mint and removable storage. I hated xfce the first time I ever had to use it, can't say it's gotten much better over time. Not everything in the linux world is sweetness and light.

1a) Video - Most video cards are reasonably to excellently supported under linux. If you have a strict only open source on my machine, no proprietary drivers allowed view you will still be able to use decent hardware, but may not get the optimal possible results. After doing the initial installation, you may need or want to install the video card manufacturers driver set. This may appear in the drivers part of your settings panel, or in linux mint there is a system checkup that will advise you the drivers are available, recommend which is the best option for the machine, and give you the option of installing it. Usually a reboot is required after installation. You may need to right click on the open area of the desktop to select your desired resolution and optionally change font sizes and icon sizes. This is particularly true if using a 4K monitor. Just as I had to make these changes on my windows machines, I've had to make them on linux machines. Icons and fonts were just too small on a 4K display. Not anything really different from Windows with updating drivers, there just are a lot less driver updates needed. To be fair, Windows 10 has greatly reduced the need to manually install all sorts of drivers, on that front at least they have taken a lesson from the linux world.

2) Linux sucks for gaming. Yup, got to say this is correct in comparison to gaming consoles, where most gaming is done these days. Steam and a few others allow quite a lot of games to run on linux, but odds are it's wrong for you if gaming is a major requirement. So is windows in many cases though, seems xBox and PSx consoles rule, with nVidia Shield bringing up the last of the top three. Windows PC gaming is still more flexible than linux. Both linux and Windows share the pain of ridiculously inflated video card prices, neither one can get you past that mess.

3) You have to use the command line to do anything. Once upon a time this was true, just as it was in the days of PC-DOS and MS-DOS. In both windows and linux access to a command prompt is sometimes required, in other cases it may let you do things quicker or more efficiently. I use linux everyday and seldom need to open a terminal. Don't be surprised to see command line answers to many requests for help on line, they tend to avoid any odd desktop configuration variables.

4) There's still a few folks doing the FUD balderdash. Ever tried to actually get customer support from Microsoft? Ever bothered to look at all the sites that tell you the equivalent applications in the open source world? If you truly need 100 percent compatibility with microsoft applications such as office, you need to run windows and microsoft office. I never had any issues exchanging word documents with clients when using open-office and later Libre-Office. If we were using macro laden spreadsheets my results could have been worse. If you use the most obscure hidden features in photoshop, darkroom, or premier you need your Adobe subscription. For the vast majority of folks though, most all you need is out there unless (as I posted earlier) you require something that just isn't well supported in a way you like under linux.

4a) If you want to see if an app is good enough, most all of the open source applications are available for Windows as well as linux. You don't have to change operating systems to change your office or photo applications if you're tired of the subscription model for software.

5) You don't need to worry about viruses with linux. Sadly not true, the first virus (actually a worm) was on unix networks. Viruses are very rare. Clam-AV is a good virus scanner. It's not a big thing, but just as with windows, not opening up every port on the machine, staying behind a router that does NAT (if you're on broadband and have or can have multiple machines / TV's connected you're likely behind a NAT firewall), and running a local firewall are all things that are never bad decisions no matter what operating system you are using. Apply patches. Linux tells you when updates are available, you don't have to put up with being in the middle of a zoom conference and have your system arbitrarily do a 20 minute update and reboot without asking if it's OK.

6) But, but, but, if I don't have a microsoft approved browser I can't do all the online things I have to do!!!! Ever noticed that most of the world does the same stuff on their phones? Apple and Android don't have microsoft browsers, go figure. I use Brave as a default browser as it tends to scuttle the overlords constant attempts to monetize web use. Firefox work fine, so does Chromium. Chromium is NOT chrome! Chrome is a google data harvesting app hidden in a browser, chromium is open source.

And finally, use the tool that meets YOUR needs. Or have more than one tool, refurbished computers are often a really good deal, and being one or two CPU generations behind typically doesn't really matter in terms of actual performance. Replacing an old spinning disk hard drive with an SSD, and maybe bumping up the RAM will often give a huge increase in performance at a much lower cost than buying the latest and greatest machine regardless of your operating system.

Cheers,
Stan
Yes, yes, I had forgotten all about the BIOS. Thanx for reminding.
 

skyline1

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Funnily enough a lot of the people being hassled to upgrade to MS 11 won't be able to as their PC/laptop may not support it. It has pretty stringent requirements for TPM 2.0 being supported and enabled, otherwise the pre-install check fails. There's current model laptops being sold on the market that don't support MS 11 so those people are screwed for an upgrade path if they wanted it.
I think MS could have a serious fail with Win 11 unless they drop this crazy TPM 2.0 requirement and for secure boot to be enabled. many, even quite modern machines, do not support it. I would go so far as to say that the majority don't.

For many folks the hardest part of installing linux is getting past the UEFI boot loader in modern BIOS. This is unrelated to linux, and more related to either 1) Microsofts continued desire to rule and regulate every breath you take by "influencing" systems and motherboard manufacturers OR 2) a genuine desire to enhance system security. It's not always easy to change the BIOS settings to allow booting anything other than the manufacturers installed OS.
I agree, the most difficult part of installing Linux is getting around Microsoft's desire to "nobble" the competition, by any devious means they can find. The whole UEFI/secure boot idea had nothing to do with security, it was Microsoft's cynical attempt to cripple Linux.

I wholly agree with the rest of your comments too. I have had similar experiences with Linux to you, and it is improving at an ever increasing rate.

Most of the internet runs on Linux servers as do a myriad other things we hardly think about. embedded Linux stuff is everywhere.

I have a little home server that runs on a version of Linux (Open Media Vault) and it is simply amazing, It has been running 24/7 for years without complaints and none of the MS malarky (update reboots, licensing hassles, access permission problems, and all the rest). Like much "unsung hero" Linux gear it just gets on with the job without all the Windoze complications It is carrying out a multitude of tasks like backing up all the other machines, running a biggish data store (24 TB) distributing media anywhere on the network, monitoring security cameras. and loads of other stuff. It does it all simultaneously (and fast) on an unbelievably small processor ( an old AMD phenom Quad core actually).

The thing was built out of salvaged bits and pieces and some second hand WD reds, plus of course a Linux based, FREE operating system. Total cost to build
it was probably less than the license for MS server and it offers me much more than a MS server could and much less hassle.

So even if not on the desktop, for backroom stuff it's Linux everytime for me.

Best Regards Mark
 

awake

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Mark, I'd be interested in hearing more about your home server setup and the automatic backups it does. I'm contemplating doing something similar.

With regard to UEFI, I've been pleased that the Ubuntu install process seems easy and flawless. Where it gets a little harder is if there are certain drivers that need to be signed for SecureBoot - then you have to enter a key during install (which is easy), and then figure out what the BIOS is asking on next boot (which can be astonishingly unintuitive).
 

Richard Hed

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I lookt up that tpm 2.0 and really couldn't see that it really was what it pretended to be. With my suspicious nature and msux's reputation, I can't help but thimpfk it is a conspiracy to make msux queen witch . I don't know enough about it to really say, but with msux . . . ? What does one expect?
 

skyline1

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Mark, I'd be interested in hearing more about your home server setup and the automatic backups it does. I'm contemplating doing something similar.
It uses Open Media Vault which is a Server/NAS O.S. Based on Debian openmediavault - The open network attached storage solution has all the details and links to a very active forum with loads of expert advice from it's community and sometimes the devs themselves. There is also a long series of excellent, in depth video tutorials covering every aspect of it from initial installation through to really heavy duty stuff like setting up a private cloud server and beyond.

OMV is a plugin based thing with installable plugins for a huge range of tasks including automatic backups. the one I use is called UR backup which is a Server/Client type of thing which polls networked machines running a small client program in the background and periodically backs them up according to whatever schedule you decide. It does this in the background and seems to monitor network and client loads so it is pretty much transparent. there is a bootable rescue disk for optical media or USB drive to recover the images if (as is usually the case) you cannot access them like a hard drive failure for example. It does work and very well, I had cause to actually use it a while back when I managed to accidentally part erase my system drive.

If you are used to Linux systems then installing and using OMV should be a breeze but even if you are a complete novice it is pretty easy to get started.

I am not associated with them other than being a user and a forum member but if I sound like an OMV evangelist it is simply because I have been using it for some years and it does the job I want. It does it reliably and quietly and will do it at very low cost.

May I PM you some pics of it and a brief rundown of the hardware.

FYI this is far from a minimum configuration. there are many cases on the forum of people building servers with nothing more than a Raspberry Pi board and a USB Hard drive, Yes it will run on a Raspi in fact there is a ready built Pi image to do just this.

With regard to UEFI, I've been pleased that the Ubuntu install process seems easy and flawless. Where it gets a little harder is if there are certain drivers that need to be signed for SecureBoot - then you have to enter a key during install (which is easy), and then figure out what the BIOS is asking on next boot (which can be astonishingly unintuitive).
The dreaded signed drivers another MSUX "Security feature" primarily designed, I think to frustrate the competion, it certainly frustrates the end users !
Luckily Linux has an ever increasing amount of this functionality actually built into the Kernel not "bolted on" MS style. Naturally quite a number of peripherals do need external drivers and some like scanners as has been mentioned are poorly supported but even this is changing.

I lookt up that tpm 2.0 and really couldn't see that it really was what it pretended to be. With my suspicious nature and msux's reputation, I can't help but thimpfk it is a conspiracy to make msux queen witch . I don't know enough about it to really say, but with msux . . . ? What does one expect?
[Caution : Rant Alert]

With all this anti competitive nonsense MS are not doing themselves any favours and are probably actually feeding a FOSS uprising not suppressing it. This TPM 2.0 thing is the latest example and will undoubtedly cause more multi million Dollar law suits. It is not surprising that they are greedy, they need to be to pay all those lawyers.

You don't need a particularly suspicious nature to be wary of MSUX's motives. If It looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks, it probably is A DUCK

I, and I think many others have the same views as you on this. Why, all of a sudden, must everybody have this "magical" TPM 2.0 thing on our computers to even install an operating system.

QUACK QUACK MICROSOFT [Rant over]

Best Regards Mark
 

aarggh

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What really annoyed a lot of people is that for the pre-releases MS wound back TPM to 1.2, so a lot of people bought supported compatible hardware thinking it would be supported, only to find out that for the general release that 2.0 was now the minimum!

And to the Linux remarks, yes it rocks! We love Linux at work, you build it, stick it in a rack somewhere, and then forget about it for the next 10 years and just let it hum along doing it's own thing reliably 24/7/365!

It's always somewhat disappointing to us to have a power cycle a server that had 7 or more years constant uptime just because power rails in the DC get upgraded, or the hardware needs to be moved. Can't recall having ever gotten that from a MS server, although NT4.0 was pretty rock solid! ;-)
 

Steamchick

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Hey guys, stay cool. I am a total newbie with Linux, so I realise there is a lot of learning to do. I just found a Debian site, with initial instructions and explanations about what Debian and Linux was all about, but in the second sentence, they talked using too many words with absolutely no meaning in my brain. Yes, the verbs and a lot of joining grammar used "American" English, but the rest should have been written in Serbo-Croat for all the use it was to me. I just need to find a book that speaks simple English, like starting with "Switch on the I/O button to I position". - I managed to do that bit (intuitively), but the first word I struggled with was the meaning of "Image". As in "download any of the following images". I didn't immediately realise that "Image" in this context was a download of what I thought of as a "program".
Please be patient with my ineptitude (I can't even manage that word without spell checker!). I'll get there. I will take a few years, but if I can out-live it I am sure my world will be a bit better.
Incidentally, I found (from ahistory of updates page) that my computer crashed and reset to a totally new Windows 10... probably because of some security issue? - Or maybe because MS tried to convert it to Windows 11 - which apparently it cannot manage! Well goose me with a USB stick! I have been struggling with Windows since XP was blown away! Does that make me less clever than my PC - I think not - just the PC is more tame and able to be re-programmed by MS...
Still, (tell me I am wrong?) instead of trying to figure out what I need from all this Debian stuff...
1643012547096.png

I was frankly so spoiled for choice I could not decide what colour to choose... so I thought I would look at the Q40S website - which had previously been recommended... (But hadn't worked sensibly for me - I got stuck, as it said my computer was rubbish... or maybe it was me, something?).
So I have a 32-bit computer, with 10% spare space - adequate to install the Q40S download for 32-bit stuff..
I shall let you know later how I get on...
Thanks for your support.
(Just stay calm! - Life is too short for high blood pressure over computers!).
K2
 

aarggh

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Hi Steamchick, you may find Centos 7, OpenSuse, or most likely Ubuntu more to your liking. Although we don't use GUI mode in any of our servers, I do find from command line use that Debian can be a bit tough on newbies IMHO (maybe the GUI's different?). The others are a bit more intuitive, (or as intuitive as a Linux distro can be). Ubuntu in particular in graphical install mode is one of the more friendly distros and is very popular. The Ubuntu forums are usually pretty helpful too.

And yes XP was an awesome release, I still use it on my CNC machines! Rock solid and never fails! Quite amazing that its from the same company that brought us Vista, and Windows 8! ;-)
 

RM-MN

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I managed to do that bit (intuitively), but the first word I struggled with was the meaning of "Image". As in "download any of the following images". I didn't immediately realise that "Image" in this context was a download of what I thought of as a "program".
I would define a "program" as a series of instructions that the operating system can run to make it do something. An "image" cannot be run in its original condition as it is just a bit for bit copy of the operating system and needs to be "installed" on the hard drive so the computer can boot to the new operating system. Your computer needs to have software to install the image. Here's a better explanation of how it is done.
 

ajoeiam

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Hey guys, stay cool. I am a total newbie with Linux, so I realise there is a lot of learning to do. I just found a Debian site, with initial instructions and explanations about what Debian and Linux was all about, but in the second sentence, they talked using too many words with absolutely no meaning in my brain. Yes, the verbs and a lot of joining grammar used "American" English, but the rest should have been written in Serbo-Croat for all the use it was to me. I just need to find a book that speaks simple English, like starting with "Switch on the I/O button to I position". - I managed to do that bit (intuitively), but the first word I struggled with was the meaning of "Image". As in "download any of the following images". I didn't immediately realise that "Image" in this context was a download of what I thought of as a "program".
Please be patient with my ineptitude (I can't even manage that word without spell checker!). I'll get there. I will take a few years, but if I can out-live it I am sure my world will be a bit better.
Incidentally, I found (from ahistory of updates page) that my computer crashed and reset to a totally new Windows 10... probably because of some security issue? - Or maybe because MS tried to convert it to Windows 11 - which apparently it cannot manage! Well goose me with a USB stick! I have been struggling with Windows since XP was blown away! Does that make me less clever than my PC - I think not - just the PC is more tame and able to be re-programmed by MS...
Still, (tell me I am wrong?) instead of trying to figure out what I need from all this Debian stuff...
View attachment 133427
I was frankly so spoiled for choice I could not decide what colour to choose... so I thought I would look at the Q40S website - which had previously been recommended... (But hadn't worked sensibly for me - I got stuck, as it said my computer was rubbish... or maybe it was me, something?).
So I have a 32-bit computer, with 10% spare space - adequate to install the Q40S download for 32-bit stuff..
I shall let you know later how I get on...
Thanks for your support.
(Just stay calm! - Life is too short for high blood pressure over computers!).
K2

Suggest you hustle over to Devuan and you will likely long term have an even better experience.

I've been using Debian for some 15 years after I got tired of the every 6 months update then current with Fedora.
A long time mentor very long time *nix user pointed Devuan out to me some years ago (sadly he is no longer with us!). There are some things that Debian is doing (for the last 3 or 4 years) that are also less than 'nice'.
Suggest giving ubuntu the by as they are working like M$ in forcing upgrades from their servers on their schedule (with no way to shut that 'feature' down!!!). (Found this when I was looking into containers a la LXD - - - a great idea but hamstrung by a decision to do this mandatory connecting.)

Devuan is Debian with init freedom for those wanting to know the difference. (Devuan was forked form Debian by some very disgruntled devs.)
 

ShopShoe

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Straying a Little Here...

I'm primarily a MAC user, even though I have built and run Windows machines, including servers and device controllers. I've played with Linux from time to time, always using "retired" PCs. Like others above, I presently have several computers in use for specific things, some only off-line.

I'm presently looking again at buying one of the laptops sold by a company that specializes in selling preloaded, preconfigured Linux machines either as Linux only or as Linux/Windows Dual-Boot systems.

I seem to have reached a point in life where I don't want to spend a lot of time just for experimenting with this. Primary use would be basic word processing, email, web-surfing, etc.

What is your opinion of this approach in general?

Two things I would like to have in addition to what I said above would be a database program and a flow-chart writer.

Ubuntu?

--ShopShoe
 

stanstocker

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<trim>

So I have a 32-bit computer, with 10% spare space - adequate to install the Q40S download for 32-bit stuff..
I shall let you know later how I get on...
Thanks for your support.
(Just stay calm! - Life is too short for high blood pressure over computers!).
K2
Greetings,

If you have a 32 bit processor, you will be limited to a previous release of many mainstream distributions. No idea about space, 10% of a 1TB drive is plenty, 10% of an 80 GB drive is pretty iffy... Many folks feel that Linux Mint is about the most new user friendly distribution. It's not watered down, it just somehow works well for most folks without obscure little things happening.

Linux Mint 19.3 is the last release of a 32 bit version. For Windows users coming to linux for the first time, it can be a bit confusing as the desktop is not just one desktop, but can be any of several desktops (user interfaces). I'd recommend getting the lighter weight MATE version if your hardware is old enough to be 32 bit only. This will look quite similar to a traditional windows desktop, as in Windows 7. The Cinnamon desktop is a bit more contemporary, with lots of optional bells and whistles but is not a fast or stable on older hardware. Once in a while Cinnamon will show a raw edge and be quirky on newer and higher end hardware too. :-(

If you want to try a 32 bit mint Mate install, here is a link to the official page. I set it to display 32 bit versions of the MATE build to make life easy:


Scroll down and find a mirror site near you or at least on the same continent and click to download an ISO image file. Write the image file to a DVD using a DVD writer program to create the disk from ISO, or make a bootable USB and go nuts. I don't know which app is best on a windows machine for making bootable USB sticks, seems one called Balena Etcher is most often recommended but being a linux guy I can't comment on that part of the deal.


Writing the disk or usb correctly is important, simply copying the ISO to disk or usb stick won't work.

Good luck with it all, whatever distribution you select.

Cheers,
Stan
 

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