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Gents, one and all,
I humbly thank you for your advice.
Maybe I am old fashioned, untrained and I am definitely a "Newbee"!
In the past (that place we remember with rose-tinted memories) I remember loading "programmes" and telling the .exe file to "Run"... didn't seem like rocket science - certainly not the depth of "computer fiddling" that you suggest I shall need to do with Linux.
But W10 is now using "new-speak" (from A. Huxley's Brave new world? - Or Orwell's 1984?? - I don't know... - I just don't speak using "new-speak"). I.E. it has "Apps" - and you can't install "Apps"! - but you can UNINSTALL them...
I did (in my naiveté) expect to have to tell the web where to file the stuff I was downloading. But it knew where to put it - didn't tell me - and just put it there. I didn't have any prompts or possibility to say "C-drive - this or that file", or another drive - such as a CD on memory stick. (I have a spare 16Gb I could use, but it only needs less than 2Gb so I could - potentially - use a 2Gb stick?).
But maybe you can help, and explain why the downloaded Q40S that worked first time as far as the ID and Password stage didn't work? (from experience) I am ESPECIALLY careful when typing new ID/PW info into a website - as to get it wrong leads to hair-loss! - That aside, I have removed Q40S - yet again - and at the last install had the message "X2 Compressed data is corrupt" - which I hadn't achieved on the first 4 attempts to load Q40S. Maybe I don't need it anyway? - I have an "Xtra-PC" stick I BOUGHT.... which loads easily when I reconfigure the start-up BIOS. (Thanks Richard - I understood what you were explaining as I have been there and done that!). So I reckon I'll not bother downloading anything else until I get to grips with LINUX using that OS. I want to get Linux to read the C: drive files - if it can? (e.g. photos? documents in "Office" formats? pdfs?). I can manage to get it to run Firefox (the easy bit) so can access the web - and talk to you. But how do I get it to read the files on the C: drive? Or any other drive?
Meanwhile, I have a fence to paint, a ceramic burner design I want to confirm (I am more comfortable empirically developing designs of gas flows inside burners than doing the aerodynamic theory - so I do it on paper with a calculator, then prove it in the garage, not on the computer!). I have a design of a burner for the large commercial market of "big-boys' toys" - that finances the materials so I can design burners for other applications. The next is for a 6" diameter 6" high vertical boiler for a shunting loco (5" gauge). I am currently over 5kW from a 5 1/2" diameter burner, but have 2 "dead-eye" spots to resolve (That's a design variant that didn't work). Then I have a Cornish marine boiler to test and finish, a few models to make - water pumps, infernal combustion engines, and steam engines, a book or 3 to read, grass to mow, wife to hug, Oh, then Xtra-PC Linux sitting in the box.
Sun is out, it isn't windy - Fence painting here I come!
Thanks for your time and effort so far. I'll get back WHEN I get stuck with Xtra-PC Linux.
K2
 

L98fiero

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Gents, one and all,
I humbly thank you for your advice.
Maybe I am old fashioned, untrained and I am definitely a "Newbee"!
Don't sell yourself short, this has been a problem since MS-Dos at a minimum and I'd suggest all through human history, those that are telling you how to run a 'bootable CD' don't understand that you don't know how to configure your pc to run that CD, most aren't setup initially to do that, at least none of mine are. The manuals you used to get with DOS were written by the people that designed the system and couldn't imagine that you don't understand the language they are speaking. I'd suggest that's where the disconnect was between you(and me) and BaronJ, he is very fluent in the internal workings and terminology and us not so much, that we end up making assumptions, not imagining anyone would not know how to do something, and end up speaking different languages.
 

Richard Hed

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Gents, one and all,
I humbly thank you for your advice.
Maybe I am old fashioned, untrained and I am definitely a "Newbee"!
In the past (that place we remember with rose-tinted memories) I remember loading "programmes" and telling the .exe file to "Run"... didn't seem like rocket science - certainly not the depth of "computer fiddling" that you suggest I shall need to do with Linux.
But W10 is now using "new-speak" (from A. Huxley's Brave new world? - Or Orwell's 1984?? - I don't know... - I just don't speak using "new-speak"). I.E. it has "Apps" - and you can't install "Apps"! - but you can UNINSTALL them...
I did (in my naiveté) expect to have to tell the web where to file the stuff I was downloading. But it knew where to put it - didn't tell me - and just put it there. I didn't have any prompts or possibility to say "C-drive - this or that file", or another drive - such as a CD on memory stick. (I have a spare 16Gb I could use, but it only needs less than 2Gb so I could - potentially - use a 2Gb stick?).
But maybe you can help, and explain why the downloaded Q40S that worked first time as far as the ID and Password stage didn't work? (from experience) I am ESPECIALLY careful when typing new ID/PW info into a website - as to get it wrong leads to hair-loss! - That aside, I have removed Q40S - yet again - and at the last install had the message "X2 Compressed data is corrupt" - which I hadn't achieved on the first 4 attempts to load Q40S. Maybe I don't need it anyway? - I have an "Xtra-PC" stick I BOUGHT.... which loads easily when I reconfigure the start-up BIOS. (Thanks Richard - I understood what you were explaining as I have been there and done that!). So I reckon I'll not bother downloading anything else until I get to grips with LINUX using that OS. I want to get Linux to read the C: drive files - if it can? (e.g. photos? documents in "Office" formats? pdfs?). I can manage to get it to run Firefox (the easy bit) so can access the web - and talk to you. But how do I get it to read the files on the C: drive? Or any other drive?
Meanwhile, I have a fence to paint, a ceramic burner design I want to confirm (I am more comfortable empirically developing designs of gas flows inside burners than doing the aerodynamic theory - so I do it on paper with a calculator, then prove it in the garage, not on the computer!). I have a design of a burner for the large commercial market of "big-boys' toys" - that finances the materials so I can design burners for other applications. The next is for a 6" diameter 6" high vertical boiler for a shunting loco (5" gauge). I am currently over 5kW from a 5 1/2" diameter burner, but have 2 "dead-eye" spots to resolve (That's a design variant that didn't work). Then I have a Cornish marine boiler to test and finish, a few models to make - water pumps, infernal combustion engines, and steam engines, a book or 3 to read, grass to mow, wife to hug, Oh, then Xtra-PC Linux sitting in the box.
Sun is out, it isn't windy - Fence painting here I come!
Thanks for your time and effort so far. I'll get back WHEN I get stuck with Xtra-PC Linux.
K2
So you managed to get the Linux OS operating? I doesn't know how far Linux has come since SUSE 9.2 which is more than 15 years ago, which I have and like very much, so I cannot actually know or recommend a procedure that works for sure. But in the olden-days, or dark ages if you prefer, we had to "mount" the drive or partition. (I partitioned my drives into smaller more easily handled pieces thus I had drives up to H: or L: which I used for various purposes like "conspiracies", "history", "porn", "PHYSICS", and so on.) I forget the exact procedure for "mount" but you can look it up on the net or if you has a complete install you can look it up using several search procedures: "man mount" which means look up in the "manual" the word "mount" There are other dictionaries/libraries besides "man" too. I forget for the time what they are but Baron and L98 probably can tell you taht.

If you get this far, that is, if you can learn how to mount a hard drive (sounds naughty to a naughty old man like myself), then you should learn the word 'alias". Alias is a method for making pseudo-commands. They really aren't "pseudo" but they are not built in commands of the system. They are onhly for your convenience. For instance, I wanted to have a quick command (Oh, BTW, msux's DOS has a similar command) to list the contents of a directory so I made up an "LS" alias which means 'list', in DOS this was "dir". So for listing a directory like H:, the command would be something like this: alias LSH = LS H: or for D: drive - alias LSD = LS D:

I also used an alias to mount a drive so I didn't have to type all that crap in the correct order all the time:

alias mount d: = md Or whatever. Can't remembers the exact wording. You can use any combination of letters for your alias you want just as long as they are not a built in command or one set taht you ahve already used.

Am not sure those are the correct way to write it, but you can llook up 'alias' on man. You must understand, that I am way behind the times on how Linux has developed over the last 10-15 years. Before, one had to have a lot of determination to use Linux or a lot of anger with msux or a lot of interest and curiosity. I have and had ALL those. So I didn't mind learning new methods, in fact, it was quite fun as REAL learning always is.

So to find your drives, there are several things you have to find or use. I have not covered all the things, and may not have covered them correctly. It can be a steep learning curve some times but quite enjoyable once the hurdles are jumpt.
 

BaronJ

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Hi Ken,

QUOTE:
I have removed Q40S - yet again - and at the last install had the message "X2 Compressed data is corrupt" - which I hadn't achieved on the first 4 attempts to load Q40S.

That is Msux getting in the way ! They don't want you to run anything other than their OS on their computer. Wins quite deliberately will not run Linux.

Now I've heard about Windows Subsystem for Linux but that is about it, it will only run on W10. However Msux is loosing the battle to kill Linux off and this is their way of locking you in ! To use it you have to join their group, this is the way they are going to be able to say that Linux users are Win10 users.

Follow the money !
 

BaronJ

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So you managed to get the Linux OS operating? I doesn't know how far Linux has come since SUSE 9.2 which is more than 15 years ago, which I have and like very much, so I cannot actually know or recommend a procedure that works for sure. But in the olden-days, or dark ages if you prefer, we had to "mount" the drive or partition. (I partitioned my drives into smaller more easily handled pieces thus I had drives up to H: or L: which I used for various purposes like "conspiracies", "history", "porn", "PHYSICS", and so on.) I forget the exact procedure for "mount" but you can look it up on the net or if you has a complete install you can look it up using several search procedures: "man mount" which means look up in the "manual" the word "mount" There are other dictionaries/libraries besides "man" too. I forget for the time what they are but Baron and L98 probably can tell you taht.

If you get this far, that is, if you can learn how to mount a hard drive (sounds naughty to a naughty old man like myself), then you should learn the word 'alias". Alias is a method for making pseudo-commands. They really aren't "pseudo" but they are not built in commands of the system. They are onhly for your convenience. For instance, I wanted to have a quick command (Oh, BTW, msux's DOS has a similar command) to list the contents of a directory so I made up an "LS" alias which means 'list', in DOS this was "dir". So for listing a directory like H:, the command would be something like this: alias LSH = LS H: or for D: drive - alias LSD = LS D:

I also used an alias to mount a drive so I didn't have to type all that crap in the correct order all the time:

alias mount d: = md Or whatever. Can't remembers the exact wording. You can use any combination of letters for your alias you want just as long as they are not a built in command or one set taht you ahve already used.

Am not sure those are the correct way to write it, but you can llook up 'alias' on man. You must understand, that I am way behind the times on how Linux has developed over the last 10-15 years. Before, one had to have a lot of determination to use Linux or a lot of anger with msux or a lot of interest and curiosity. I have and had ALL those. So I didn't mind learning new methods, in fact, it was quite fun as REAL learning always is.

So to find your drives, there are several things you have to find or use. I have not covered all the things, and may not have covered them correctly. It can be a steep learning curve some times but quite enjoyable once the hurdles are jumpt.

Most of that is very much automatic today. Most Linux distributions will find and use an existing disk, CD, USB key or whatever.

But yes if you want to play at the nuts and bolts level it still applies, but most people don't ! They would rather just click on an icon and it just works. Nothing wrong with that, until something goes wrong.

Which leads me to another point, people that highly recommend Msux are making money from it ! I know a good number of good engineers and service techs that do nothing but repair Wins machines and systems but don't use them unless they have to.

As I have already said, "Follow the Money"
 

Richard Hed

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Most of that is very much automatic today. Most Linux distributions will find and use an existing disk, CD, USB key or whatever.

But yes if you want to play at the nuts and bolts level it still applies, but most people don't ! They would rather just click on an icon and it just works. Nothing wrong with that, until something goes wrong.

Which leads me to another point, people that highly recommend Msux are making money from it ! I know a good number of good engineers and service techs that do nothing but repair Wins machines and systems but don't use them unless they have to.

As I have already said, "Follow the Money"
Ha haw hawww. yes, Follow the $$$$$$$$$. Thanx for that info abut the modern ages. I was brought up in the dark and middle ages of Linux. Actually, I got in on it near the begining. When did Linus start? was it '92? Doesn't remember but I thimpfks I started looking at that no later than '96 right after the horrific winsux '95 fiasco. I will mount an .iso on a USB soon and test it out.
 
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Talking language... the differences between my English and your Linux jargon are so great I feel more lost than when I was in Japan, and the guys teaching me "their" engineering only spoke Japanese. At least back then we spoke the same maths language...
Richard, don't mis-understand me please. I bought a memory stick which runs Linux, and when I set the Bios to open the computer using that drive, it has enough friendly programming to walk me through the set-up of language, keyboard, etc. It offers Firefox as a browser, an office package is already on the desktop, and something called Debian is there from what I remember.
I joined this discussion because I had spent a few days with it and couldn't understand anything in the language of Linux, and couldn't see how to get to the files I want from the C-drive. And it gathered dust for a few months, until I read stuff on the thread.
Thanks for the advice though, whatever it means...
K2
 

Richard Hed

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Talking language... the differences between my English and your Linux jargon are so great I feel more lost than when I was in Japan, and the guys teaching me "their" engineering only spoke Japanese. At least back then we spoke the same maths language...
Richard, don't mis-understand me please. I bought a memory stick which runs Linux, and when I set the Bios to open the computer using that drive, it has enough friendly programming to walk me through the set-up of language, keyboard, etc. It offers Firefox as a browser, an office package is already on the desktop, and something called Debian is there from what I remember.
I joined this discussion because I had spent a few days with it and couldn't understand anything in the language of Linux, and couldn't see how to get to the files I want from the C-drive. And it gathered dust for a few months, until I read stuff on the thread.
Thanks for the advice though, whatever it means...
K2
Well? Did it work? Have you managed to get into C: drive? I'm hoping you have had success, if not, I can pray to the true godz, Thor and Wotan for you.
 

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Ken, generally when you boot up Linux using a DVD or thumb drive, it does not "mount" the hard disk. Earlier in this thread (? or elsewhere in another thread), the point was made that this is to prevent any unintentional destruction of data.

But it should be no problem to mount the drive and access the contents if you decide to do so. Don't know about Q4OS, but as best I recall, if you run Ubuntu on a DVD or thumb drive, the system hard disk(s) show up as an icon that can be clicked to mount them. You can mount them and copy the data to an external disk drive (USB drive) or thumb drive, depending on how much data you have.
 
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Hi Awake, I had copied most files to a couple of USB sticks. Just tried importing a large folder into Linux, but it only took 38% and the Linux memory is now full. So I reckon the only way is to ask it (somehow?) to open the hard-drive as a store drive - not functional program? I just need guidance on what to do and how to do it...
But I am in here today via Linux and Firefox. Courtesy of the set-up from Xtra-PC. (Not any sort of programming by me!).
Must go and watch some rugby now...
K2
 

Richard Hed

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Hi Awake, I had copied most files to a couple of USB sticks. Just tried importing a large folder into Linux, but it only took 38% and the Linux memory is now full. So I reckon the only way is to ask it (somehow?) to open the hard-drive as a store drive - not functional program? I just need guidance on what to do and how to do it...
But I am in here today via Linux and Firefox. Courtesy of the set-up from Xtra-PC. (Not any sort of programming by me!).
Must go and watch some rugby now...
K2
So ;you DID manage to get Linux to run. Now you are learning how it works. That's great. How large are your USBs? What is the largest size you can get in UK? Can you get terabyte sized backup drives?
 
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Hi Richard, I could always get Linux to run from an independent USB that I bought a while back. Recently - prompted by this thread - I tried (wrongly it seems) to try and Import a Linux OS onto the hard-drive , which is the thing that nearly worked except it didn't accept my ID and password. I wonder if there is something where my keyboard (UK settings) is incompatible with the Linux settings ( US maybe?). But then repeated attempts to re-load the OS caused it to crash. I am not wasting my life with that idea now.
But if I can get the USB-bought Linux OS to turn ON and use the hard drive just as a memory, I should be able to read my 70Gb of files... and have another 500 plus Gb for future expansion.
The USB OS came on a 32 Gb stick and I guess is security fixed so it won't copy. (So you buy another one).
When I looked on the Linux directory list it didn't list all the other things on the USB sockets, but possibly I'll add them quite easily? I could add a new 16Gb USB no problem. I have a 20Tb back-up drive permanently safeguarding the MS hard-drive. I understood it effectively became a part of the computer, so IF I can get the processor to talk to the hard-drive I should be able to get it to talk to that as well. So I have the memory available - when I get it connected and working...
Thanks for keeping in touch with this newbee.
K2
 
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That's curious... Just tried to extract some pictures from my camera - the latest ceramic burner I have made - but maybe the file was too big? - It started to open - then stopped the whole computer... I don't want to give up immediately, but Linux is spoiling my life just now.... - maybe the 10 minutes back to MS will be necessary if Linux cannot cope with a camera!
So how can I get it to use space on the hard-drive?
Abandon that Idea. (Please shout at me to "STOP" at any time you think I am doing something stupid? - Being Stupid I don't recognise it myself...).
My next idea:
  1. With the system in MS mode: COPY ALL the C-drive files from the Hard-drive onto the back-up drive in a folder to use for Linux.
  2. Then Open the system in LINUX mode, and simply use the back-up drive for EVERYTHING... All my files, photos, etc.
  3. Maybe monthly, or at some interval, just once in a while, open the computer in MS mode and copy the updates from the back-up drive to the Hard drive - which is then simply used as a back-up ...
  4. Use the computer daily in LINUX mode... so I become used to the different jargon, but not saving anything into the LINUX Documents folder: put everything in the back-up drive folder.
  5. I understand this will keep LINUX from any interaction with the hard-drive - and assume this will allow the basic computer to carry-on its job as host computer for the broadband - or anything else it is doing that I don't know about or would understand anyway...
  6. The only problem I foresee is that when it has been sat for a month without being turned ON, then MS, Macaffee, and lots of jobs that are secret or whatever, will all turn ON and update so I won't be able to use the computer for hours....
Step 3 seems a bit of a clart, but any non-new-bees are welcome to tell me what I should be doing? Step 6 happens when I have been away for a few days, a week or 2 (for holidays - I still remember what they were - last one was Christmas 2019! - Big sigh...).
Cheers!
K2
chicken2.png
 

awake

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Ken, I am not entirely sure if I am understanding your setup correctly, but a word of caution: When you run Linux from a thumb drive, you will see a "home" folder ... but it may or may not actually store anything long term. The thumb drive installation has to be set up correctly to enable "persistent storage." Otherwise, anything you "save" to the home directly is actually just saved in a temporary memory drive; it will disappear the next time you reboot.

Even if "persistent storage" is enabled, there will likely not be a great deal of storage to work with - that of course depends on the size of your thumb drive. But if "persistent storage" is not enabled, then there really is very little storage to work with - that may be what happened when you tried to work with a relatively large file (picture).

I did run Linux for the first six months or so from an external drive, though in my case I used an external hard disk with persistent storage - this gave me a bit more room to work with. I did very much as you are suggesting, using the Windows Documents and similar folders as the place where I stored everything; the only thing actually saved to the Linux partitions was installed software and any settings. I should mention this was 10+ years ago, so relatively primitive compared to current Linux, but it all worked just fine.

Then I moved to a dual-boot solution, where I went ahead and installed Linux on my built-in hard drive, but I instructed the installer to load it alongside Windows. Then when I turned on the machine, I had a few seconds to click on either Windows or Linux to boot into. (After a few seconds, I set it to default into Linux.) Important note: the dual-boot setup was actually easier back in those olden days, due to Windows having a simpler boot design at that time. (I think it was still Windows 95 at the time.) Nowadays, there can be complications caused by the fact that Windows is very persistent in keeping its hooks in the computer, all the way down into the BIOS - this is a place where a tech friend would be invaluable to get you over any humps.

After another 6-12 months of dual boot, I realized I was never booting into Windows, so I finally set up that laptop, and all subsequent laptops, by eliminating Windows altogether and just installing Linux. Unfortunately, I do still have an occasional need to run Windows (to interact with the Windows-standard office in which I work, and to run one program that does not have a suitable Linux alternative), so now I have a VirtualBox installation on my LInux machine, set up with a Windows image. This way, I can run Windows as a process within LInux, while still using all of my primary Linux software. This setup works a treat for me, but of course, YMMV.
 
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Andy, I think you understand my set-up better than I do! So this evening (While I was watching rugby) the PC has been in MS mode copying all the contents of "my documents" from the hard-drive to the back-up drive. Tomorrow, I'll reset to run in Linux and see if it will open anything from that drive, as it shows in the directory list. If so, I'll copy all my photos albums and other rubbish across the same way. And as you have explained the "space" on the Linux USB, I'll ignore that and let it do its stuff in temporary mode.
I'll write again at the next "stoppage".
K2
 
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  1. Curious... Linux won't open Google account nor Gmail... but it did yesterday...
  2. However - VERY SLOWLY (>1 hour?) - it has opened the directory for the remote drive I have for back-up - with a copy of all my Documents on it. Not sure I can cope with the ridiculously slow speed (compared to my Hard-drive and MS)... but I'll have a go...
Any suggestions for either of these issues?
K2
 
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Hmmmmm.....
Another issue where I need advice. - I need to use the tablet to write here, as the PC will not open Gmail from Linux, I use Gmail to talk to folk and short-cut to HMEM. Is that Google blocking it?
And this morning I spent more than an hour typing stuff in documents using Linux office, with documents saved on the huge store drive I have connected to the PC. But after one document had 630Kb of picture added, Libra Office crashed, telling me the document was too big! It is about 5.1Mb. Is that big? The long message told me I had to fix it by enlarging the memory... but it was saved on to a disc with over 500Gb. Of free space!
Being a new-bee.....
I'm resetting to MS... and re-booting the PC.
Linux works Firefox - except it won't access Google addresses..... e.g. my mail and account stuff.
It is limited with Libra Office.... like in 1990 before MS..... When we had our first PC at work. - running from discs with "programmes"...
Help please?
K2
 

BaronJ

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Ken I don't want to insult your intelligence ! I did point out to you way back that a bootable Linux, CD or USB will not access your hardware unless you tell it to. I also pointed out that you cannot write anything to an already written CD, as part of that I also said that everything runs from the CD ! The same applies to your USB copy of Linux !

However it seems that the USB copy of Linux uses what ever memory is on the USB key that it was written to, so you are running out of space to do things, hence the inability to load your pictures, edit your big document etc.

If you had followed my advice and used a bootable CD the copy of Linux on the CD would have used your machines memory to store the data that you create, in addition to the memory it needed to run. Linux would simply swap itself out of the machines memory to try and enable itself to continue to run.

Its likely that you would have run out of memory at some point, but I feel that you would have a better experience prior to a proper install.
 

BaronJ

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Ken I don't want to insult your intelligence ! I did point out to you way back that a bootable Linux, CD or USB will not access your hardware unless you tell it to. I also pointed out that you cannot write anything to an already written CD, as part of that I also said that everything runs from the CD ! The same applies to your USB copy of Linux !

However it seems that the USB copy of Linux uses what ever memory is on the USB key that it was written to, so you are running out of space to do things, hence the inability to load your pictures, edit your big document etc.

If you had followed my advice and used a bootable CD the copy of Linux on the CD would have used your machines memory to temporarily store the data that you create, in addition to the memory it needed to run. Linux would simply swap itself out of the machines memory to try and enable itself to continue to run.

Its likely that you would have run out of memory at some point, but I feel that you would have a better experience prior to a proper install.
 

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