Linux "Q4OS"

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BaronJ

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I thot I was the only one with that disgust of msux forcing the unwanted updates and trouble it causes.
Believe me, you are not the only one ! Both my children have to use W10 because their employer says so. The NHS employs it for their systems, I hear them complaining about it being slow or computer locked up whenever I go to the hospital. The doctors system won't let me use parts of the system because I have JavaScript disabled. And google analytics can't get my details, etc etc.
 

Richard Hed

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Believe me, you are not the only one ! Both my children have to use W10 because their employer says so. The NHS employs it for their systems, I hear them complaining about it being slow or computer locked up whenever I go to the hospital. The doctors system won't let me use parts of the system because I have JavaScript disabled. And google analytics can't get my details, etc etc.
OMG, I thot for sure th e NHS would be using Linux based computers. Does you remember a few years back when German cities were going to Linux when msux panikt , sent an army of lobbyiest to Germany to get the cities to keep msux OS? msux must have given them a HUGE deal to keep them from going over. I heard they had a hard time keeping the cities in the fold. Where I live, at least the library uses Linux, I bet the city does too. I really question, why, why would anyone use msux? there is only ONE reason: that is all the programs that have been running on msux OSs since the 80s. Linux, however, is catching up in that regard.

I bought my second computer in 1988, it was an Amiga. I don't know what the operating system was, or who wrote it, but I DO know one thing: the Amiga was the best computer I ever owned. Problem is, it never kept up with the times and went out of business.
 

BaronJ

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OMG, I thot for sure th e NHS would be using Linux based computers. Does you remember a few years back when German cities were going to Linux when msux panikt , sent an army of lobbyiest to Germany to get the cities to keep msux OS? msux must have given them a HUGE deal to keep them from going over. I heard they had a hard time keeping the cities in the fold. Where I live, at least the library uses Linux, I bet the city does too. I really question, why, why would anyone use msux? there is only ONE reason: that is all the programs that have been running on msux OSs since the 80s. Linux, however, is catching up in that regard.

I bought my second computer in 1988, it was an Amiga. I don't know what the operating system was, or who wrote it, but I DO know one thing: the Amiga was the best computer I ever owned. Problem is, it never kept up with the times and went out of business.
Hi Richard, Guys,

Yes I do remember it well ! Basically they went around bribing all and sundry to use Wins. I even got a free of charge/not for sale copy of "SNA Server" god forbid I still have it ! Its sat on the bookshelf, unopened, definitely unloved.

They gave huge discounts to the Government and various other organizations to keep them on side. To a great extent its worked.

I did hear a rumor that MS use Linux internally ! I do know that they used and wrote Unix applications in the very early days. In fact I'm sure that I still have the only Unix license that I bought, which even by todays prices was very expensive. I've probably still got that software kicking around somewhere.
 

Richard Hed

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Hi Richard, Guys,

Yes I do remember it well ! Basically they went around bribing all and sundry to use Wins. I even got a free of charge/not for sale copy of "SNA Server" god forbid I still have it ! Its sat on the bookshelf, unopened, definitely unloved.

They gave huge discounts to the Government and various other organizations to keep them on side. To a great extent its worked.

I did hear a rumor that MS use Linux internally ! I do know that they used and wrote Unix applications in the very early days. In fact I'm sure that I still have the only Unix license that I bought, which even by todays prices was very expensive. I've probably still got that software kicking around somewhere.
Yes, and IBM charged, in those days, 1000$ for an operating system. No wonder msux cut them out so easily. Once the OS is developed it only cost 25c plust postage and packaging to send out a CD to a customer. Gates' genius lies in his business sense to give steep discounts to companies willing to install his OS on ALL their computers! It's not exactly piracy, but not really very far from it. IBM simply was too greedy but Bill cut their sac.
 

skyline1

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I did hear a rumor that MS use Linux internally ! I do know that they used and wrote Unix applications in the very early days.
It wouldn't surprise me at all. This may explain why The MSux "update" procedure is so secretive, behind that blue splash screen giving cryptic messages about what is going on (or not) may be parts of the Linux code doing it's stuff with no attribution at all.

Whilst you can't exactly pirate FOSS software. Claiming it (or bits of it) as your own without any acknowledgement of the many hours of work put into it, simply for the good of others, not for profit, is at the very least rather immoral. But when did that ever bother a money gobbling monster like Microsoft

Conspiracy theories aside I have been hearing of late about the "Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL)" which I believe allows the use of Linux applications from within Windows.

I doubt I would want to do this, more likely the other way round as I am a little suspicious of anything MS does, But does anyone know what this is all about.

Is it simply a disguised virtual machine that could be easily implemented in other ways without having to comply with MS rules and limitations. or is it something different.

Best Regards Mark
 

Richard Hed

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It wouldn't surprise me at all. This may explain why The MSux "update" procedure is so secretive, behind that blue splash screen giving cryptic messages about what is going on (or not) may be parts of the Linux code doing it's stuff with no attribution at all.

Whilst you can't exactly pirate FOSS software. Claiming it (or bits of it) as your own without any acknowledgement of the many hours of work put into it, simply for the good of others, not for profit, is at the very least rather immoral. But when did that ever bother a money gobbling monster like Microsoft

Conspiracy theories aside I have been hearing of late about the "Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL)" which I believe allows the use of Linux applications from within Windows.

I doubt I would want to do this, more likely the other way round as I am a little suspicious of anything MS does, But does anyone know what this is all about.

Is it simply a disguised virtual machine that could be easily implemented in other ways without having to comply with MS rules and limitations. or is it something different.

Best Regards Mark
That is HILARIOUS! msux must have been trying to emulate Linux for years. Shows their utter lack of talent. Linux did this years ago.
 

Steamchick

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Hmmmm. some interesting stuff here.
I have an oldish Dell that used to be W7 but is now W10 due to the unimaginable trickery of the internet and MS. Seems to work fine - as far as I can tell. Except the older printer no longer works with W10 - "no drivers" issue. So I tried an "xtra-PC"USB. Which runs things I don't understand, can't access by C-drive files, but can access everything on the web - which is not everything I do.
So I have now added Q40S Linux to my hard drive....
But the earlier thread makes me wonder if I will be better-off just re-starting the factory setting of W7? - when everything seemed to function correctly?
Without predjudice for or against Linux and MS... I know my printer will work on W7 - so is that the sensible way to go? What will I lose if I hit "factory reset"? Are all my files of "stuff" safe, and will they all work in W7? (Like 20 years of photos, family tree and engineering files, etc.).
Frankly I am more worried about the systems crashing the whole lot than missing my printer. And somehow, all the debate makes me wonder if I am just too simple to appreciate all the problems you have with MS? - or advantages of Linux? - It is like never having had a car, you think walking and buses are great! And wonder why everyone needs their car? So how will Linux improve my life (or not?), or will "Factory reset" to W7 still use all my files safely?
I still use a pencil and paper for drawing - it suits me. And a calculator (from the 1970s) as it is quicker for the calculations I do than I can programme an Excel spreadsheet.... (and I like to see the numbers changing so I understand what the answer really means and how I got there! I understand teacher wanting to see my workings - even when I did it "by slide-rule" - oh, I still use mine occasionally).
So the choice is Linux? W7? W10?
K2
 

Richard Hed

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Hmmmm. some interesting stuff here.
I have an oldish Dell that used to be W7 but is now W10 due to the unimaginable trickery of the internet and MS. Seems to work fine - as far as I can tell. Except the older printer no longer works with W10 - "no drivers" issue. So I tried an "xtra-PC"USB. Which runs things I don't understand, can't access by C-drive files, but can access everything on the web - which is not everything I do.
So I have now added Q40S Linux to my hard drive....
But the earlier thread makes me wonder if I will be better-off just re-starting the factory setting of W7? - when everything seemed to function correctly?
Without predjudice for or against Linux and MS... I know my printer will work on W7 - so is that the sensible way to go? What will I lose if I hit "factory reset"? Are all my files of "stuff" safe, and will they all work in W7? (Like 20 years of photos, family tree and engineering files, etc.).
Frankly I am more worried about the systems crashing the whole lot than missing my printer. And somehow, all the debate makes me wonder if I am just too simple to appreciate all the problems you have with MS? - or advantages of Linux? - It is like never having had a car, you think walking and buses are great! And wonder why everyone needs their car? So how will Linux improve my life (or not?), or will "Factory reset" to W7 still use all my files safely?
I still use a pencil and paper for drawing - it suits me. And a calculator (from the 1970s) as it is quicker for the calculations I do than I can programme an Excel spreadsheet.... (and I like to see the numbers changing so I understand what the answer really means and how I got there! I understand teacher wanting to see my workings - even when I did it "by slide-rule" - oh, I still use mine occasionally).
So the choice is Linux? W7? W10?
K2
The first thing to do is get ALL your files copied to an exterior drive of some kind--CDs, Hard drives, thumb drives, whatever. Your files are too important. My files, I have copies on like 4-5 different drives. I learned this because of msux 95 which crashed so much it was ridiculous. It cost me about $20,000 worth of my stuff. Thjat's the real reason I hate msux so much. I learned from that to back up back up back up. It never hurts to have extra files.

Then, when you have safe files, you can experiment with Linux on one older machine and msux on another. If you don't have an extra machine, go to Salvation Army or a local junk store and get anoter for a few pounds. My local junk store sells reasonably good used computers for about 10-20$.
 

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I bought my second computer in 1988, it was an Amiga. I don't know what the operating system was, or who wrote it, but I DO know one thing: the Amiga was the best computer I ever owned. Problem is, it never kept up with the times and went out of business.

Did you give up too soon? ;)

Craig
 

willray

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That is HILARIOUS! msux must have been trying to emulate Linux for years. Shows their utter lack of talent. Linux did this years ago.
In reality, there is very little different in the Linuxes of today, from the Unixes of the early 1980s. There are some underlying re-workings of how certain processes work, but these are essentially invisible to the user. The "getting easier to use" has little, if anything to do with the operating system itself, and everything to do with the interface software that runs on top of the operating system. That interface software however is not the OS, and the OS isn't the interface: If I sat you down in front of a pair of computers - one a modern Linux box with the most recent Debian, running only the command-line, and the other one of my Sun workstations running SunOS (a Berkeley flavor of Unix) from the 1980s, you'd be hard-pressed to tell which was which. Likewise, if I installed your favorite Linux desktop interface on the Sun, you'd have a difficult time telling that it wasn't running modern Linux under the hood.

MS - even MS - could have implemented Linux-like features and controllability in Windows years ago, if they had had any interest in doing so. The limitation isn't "for lack of trying or ability", it's for lack of wanting to provide those capabilities to their users.

To understand the MS mindset and the "difficulty" they have in implementing different features, you have to understand that MS hates their users. MS's core premise is that their users are stupid, and bad, and that they need to be led along by their baser instincts with trinkets and candy, and carefully controlled to make sure that they don't do something bad (to MS - who gives a flip if they hurt themselves or other users?).

You may think this is hyperbole, but if you look at MS decisions through this lens, all of their decisions make perfect sense.

For example: One of the side-projects in my lab is development of a hardware device that looks like a toy to children, but that provides diagnostic information to a clinician so that they can monitor treatment progress. It's for kids, say 2 to 7 years old.

It turns out that Microsoft has developed a similar product. We're working on a publication on our device, so we're studying their product and reading quite a lot of their literature on it. ALL of their literature and promotional material on their product, is about all of the special features they've implemented in their device, to keep the kids from cheating. 2 to 7 year old kids. With neuromuscular disorders that keep them in wheel-chairs. And MS's primary concern is whether they cheat while playing a game on a toy.

Microsoft hates their users.
 

BaronJ

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So I have now added Q40S Linux to my hard drive....
Fine, now I assume that you are using the "Trinity Desktop".
Which is the graphical interface that runs on top of Linux and allows you to simply click on the applications that you have installed and want to run.

But the earlier thread makes me wonder if I will be better-off just re-starting the factory setting of W7? - when everything seemed to function correctly?
Without predjudice for or against Linux and MS... I know my printer will work on W7 - so is that the sensible way to go? What will I lose if I hit "factory reset"? Are all my files of "stuff" safe, and will they all work in W7? (Like 20 years of photos, family tree and engineering files, etc.).

K2
Under no circumstances use "Return to Factory Settings" without ensuring that you have a full backup of all the things that you want to keep !

You will loose everything on the machine !
 

Richard Hed

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In reality, there is very little different in the Linuxes of today, from the Unixes of the early 1980s. There are some underlying re-workings of how certain processes work, but these are essentially invisible to the user. The "getting easier to use" has little, if anything to do with the operating system itself, and everything to do with the interface software that runs on top of the operating system. That interface software however is not the OS, and the OS isn't the interface: If I sat you down in front of a pair of computers - one a modern Linux box with the most recent Debian, running only the command-line, and the other one of my Sun workstations running SunOS (a Berkeley flavor of Unix) from the 1980s, you'd be hard-pressed to tell which was which. Likewise, if I installed your favorite Linux desktop interface on the Sun, you'd have a difficult time telling that it wasn't running modern Linux under the hood.

MS - even MS - could have implemented Linux-like features and controllability in Windows years ago, if they had had any interest in doing so. The limitation isn't "for lack of trying or ability", it's for lack of wanting to provide those capabilities to their users.

To understand the MS mindset and the "difficulty" they have in implementing different features, you have to understand that MS hates their users. MS's core premise is that their users are stupid, and bad, and that they need to be led along by their baser instincts with trinkets and candy, and carefully controlled to make sure that they don't do something bad (to MS - who gives a flip if they hurt themselves or other users?).

You may think this is hyperbole, but if you look at MS decisions through this lens, all of their decisions make perfect sense.

For example: One of the side-projects in my lab is development of a hardware device that looks like a toy to children, but that provides diagnostic information to a clinician so that they can monitor treatment progress. It's for kids, say 2 to 7 years old.

It turns out that Microsoft has developed a similar product. We're working on a publication on our device, so we're studying their product and reading quite a lot of their literature on it. ALL of their literature and promotional material on their product, is about all of the special features they've implemented in their device, to keep the kids from cheating. 2 to 7 year old kids. With neuromuscular disorders that keep them in wheel-chairs. And MS's primary concern is whether they cheat while playing a game on a toy.

Microsoft hates their users.
Oh, do I ever agree with you. That's why I really hate THEM! I am NOT a child, I don't need that candy, I refuse to be lead around with a ring in my nose, in fact the candy and ring get IN THE WAY! That's what we are talking about here: bloat that very few people want. I write screenplays and msux office is so bloated and non-specific that it makes writing screenplays in correct formatting nearly impossible. I heard they "fixt" that (really, just more bloat, if true). msux office is, what? 100Mb? I have a VERY good screen writing software called "Sophocles", in my opinion it is better than the "all time favorite" but the point is, it's size is only about 86Kb! It does everything I need which mostly has to do with formatting the screenplay correctly. It does other stuff too, related to the writing of the play. It doesn't have to have a silly little font pile, or hundreds of things no-one ever uses--not even secretaries.

ANd, No, I DON"T thimpfk that is hyperbole.
 

Richard Hed

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Did you give up too soon? ;)

Craig
No, I didn't give up too soon--the company I was working for at the time was trying to get their workers to use and understnad computers (1992) so they offered theier employees to finance a computer each--it had minimum characteristics which yuou had to buy. So I took advantage of that offer, as did most of the employees. The computer was a tower, with a whopping 16Mb of ram (the Amiga had .5 MB with an upgrade to 1Mb) and whatever the speed was, I don't remember but it was really buzzing along for it's time. The thing cost 3000$--my wife was pist. One of my friends saw it and was totally amazed, the next day he reported to the other employees: "It's HUMONGOUS". I wondered what he was talking abouty, to me it was just ordinary, but I guess it was one of the biggest and fastest--I never thot of it in that way. This being my third computer, I knew just what I needed to do what I wanted. At that time my kidz were little and I found myself spending ALL my free time on the computer. One day, I realized that I couldn't do that to my kidz or they would grow up "neglected children" so I set apart all Saturdays to do things with the kidz. It was one of the hardest things to do, like quitting smoking, the addiction was real, it's not a joke. I still have the Amiga. It ran circles around all IBM clones untill about 1995 when the clones started being as good or better. I bought the Amiga in 1988 so they were better for 6-7 years.
 

BaronJ

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Can it read Alibre CAD files?
Most Linux CAD programs can read DFX files which Alibre can output.

However there are conversion programs like "Hoops" which can also read Alibre files among others and convert them to other formats, but of course that is another expensive Wins program !
 

Steamchick

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I'm not a child playing games when it comes to computers... I'm not that clever.
My wife's laptop has (2 days ago) changed the screen format from tabs at the top to a vertical left-hand column... I think a MS change? But only when she closes her favourite tab website. (logs -off from it - when it closes). You can see the frustration of a "normal user" because she doesn't understand what the "Clever B(*&^%$£) do at MS - except screw-up things she is happy to use as they have been like that for more than a decade...
I may have a go at Q40 - but at the moment my favourite browser is an obsolete Chrome... that accepts government, bank, etc. sites whereas the latest Google Chrome in pretty colours doesn't. Now it is "beyond updates" (no longer supported) it is very stable and does what I want... - except play the latest video formats that interesting people on these threads - and NASA - use... So I have been using 2 browsers for well over a year or 5... - I don't know what to expect from Debian... Also my head needs to be in the right place to spend a few hours getting it going. e.g.
Yesterday, Mcaffee told me the licence would expire in 1 day.... So I tried to upload a new version from my supplier ( of "free" Mcaffee and other services). Only to be told by Mcaffee: it can't remove the "old" version because it is part way through an update - which it isn't - so until that finishes (it has - 24 hours ago) it can't progress to remove the old and install the new version. But it should have expired today according to yesterday's message... - which it hasn't. And it tells me I have the software on 2 computer devices, (this and another) but a third should have it - I.E. This one! It is talking straight nonsense!
If I can't understand MS stuff (supposed to be OK for kids?) how am I ever going to gain the confidence to "jump" to Linux?
5 years ago, 6-months with a Raspberry pie put me off Linux - as it never worked. - And a "Doctor" qualified computer boffin at work had programmed many raspberry pies - then couldn't make mine work so I could watch my favourite subscription website, NASA, and other technical stuff. But his kid could use it to watch Peppa Pig! - 6 months work and he gave up. Yet he used to programme Trident Missiles, etc...
I find it a bit disturbing....
Maybe I'll make "the jump" next week?
K2
 

BaronJ

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Hi Ken,

Stop messing about and kicking yourself in the head !

Have you downloaded the Q4OS iso file ?
Can you burn it to a CD ?
Can your machine boot from the CD drive ?

If you answer "NO" to any of these questions, PM me your address and I'll send you a CD in the post !

Now the bit about tabs position, you should be able to grab the menu bar with the mouse and drag it where you want it !

HTH.
 

Richard Hed

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I'm not a child playing games when it comes to computers... I'm not that clever.
My wife's laptop has (2 days ago) changed the screen format from tabs at the top to a vertical left-hand column... I think a MS change? But only when she closes her favourite tab website. (logs -off from it - when it closes). You can see the frustration of a "normal user" because she doesn't understand what the "Clever B(*&^%$£) do at MS - except screw-up things she is happy to use as they have been like that for more than a decade...
I may have a go at Q40 - but at the moment my favourite browser is an obsolete Chrome... that accepts government, bank, etc. sites whereas the latest Google Chrome in pretty colours doesn't. Now it is "beyond updates" (no longer supported) it is very stable and does what I want... - except play the latest video formats that interesting people on these threads - and NASA - use... So I have been using 2 browsers for well over a year or 5... - I don't know what to expect from Debian... Also my head needs to be in the right place to spend a few hours getting it going. e.g.
Yesterday, Mcaffee told me the licence would expire in 1 day.... So I tried to upload a new version from my supplier ( of "free" Mcaffee and other services). Only to be told by Mcaffee: it can't remove the "old" version because it is part way through an update - which it isn't - so until that finishes (it has - 24 hours ago) it can't progress to remove the old and install the new version. But it should have expired today according to yesterday's message... - which it hasn't. And it tells me I have the software on 2 computer devices, (this and another) but a third should have it - I.E. This one! It is talking straight nonsense!
If I can't understand MS stuff (supposed to be OK for kids?) how am I ever going to gain the confidence to "jump" to Linux?
5 years ago, 6-months with a Raspberry pie put me off Linux - as it never worked. - And a "Doctor" qualified computer boffin at work had programmed many raspberry pies - then couldn't make mine work so I could watch my favourite subscription website, NASA, and other technical stuff. But his kid could use it to watch Peppa Pig! - 6 months work and he gave up. Yet he used to programme Trident Missiles, etc...
I find it a bit disturbing....
Maybe I'll make "the jump" next week?
K2
Steam
Don't get too steamed up now, watch your boiler pressure, you might have a blowout. My msux computers do the same thing, randomly move the bottom ribbon where I put my most used programs to the top or sides. The only problem with this is I thimpfk that it's another one of msux's bugs (which it is, and occassionally I might press a mouse button and accidentally move it) and the ribbon has disappeared. Then by accident I find it at the top or sides! It's easy to move back, but still, it is VERY irritating. Please remember what I said at an earlier post: use your oldest beater computer or go buy one at a junk shop. Back up all necessary files, (Handel's Halleluyah Chorus inserted here) install a Linux OS of your choice or use a CD or USB. There is one thing I have not seen recommended here yet, it is the Boot up preferences in which you have to press a certain button at boot up time. Each computer system has a different one so I cannot recommend which button. This boot preference thingy will be in DOS before a "window" opens. You must find a place that give you the choice of "boot-from" first. I thimpfk other guys can explain this better but it used to be absolutely mandatory, and I thimpfk still is.

Anyway, This gives you the preference that while your machine is booting up, it checks FIRST to see if there is an OS where you directed it to. OK, a bit confuzing. In this DOS place, you tell it you want it to check the CD first--if it doesn't find an operating system in the CD, it goes to check the second place. Let's say you chose USB. Then the boot system looks for a USB OS. If it doesn't find one there, it keeps looking untill it finds an OS. So the point of this is that usually under normal working cercumstances, the hard drive is chekt first, so you have to reset that "boot first" check system. (ONce you have "dual boot" this will not matter so much). I doesn't want to skare u butt probalby Baron can explain this process better using all the correct terms. I've forgotten the correct terms.

On another subject, I have mccoffee and some other worm chekkers that I have never bought in the last 20 years that constatntlhy says one of three or four messages: your mccoffee worm chekker is about to expire, you have 24 hrs to buy a new one. The next day it's, Your mccoffee worm chekker has two daze before it runds out. This is constant, anbout 2-3 times a day. It is very irritating. My rule is that for every time I see one of these pop-ups, which are virus' themselves in MY not so humble opinion, I put off buying their product by a week. At that rate, I am scheduled (for today) to buy a copy in 22.54 years from now. My understanding of virus/worm chekkers is that they can't afford to let a virus loose at any cost. Thus, they are really chekking for dangerous virus' even if you haven't bought it for 20 years like myself. They might allow small irritating virus' on your computer if they aren't likely to move to the net and destroy msux' billions $$ of fortune (and their own of course).
 

BaronJ

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Hi Guys,

The easy way to try any Linux distribution, not just Q4OS, is to go and download the live CD ISO image for the one that you want to try out. Burn a CD and boot from it.

Remember that not all computers can run all variants of Linux ! Some machines already run a Linux OS (Operating System) under the hood ! Apple mac's for instance, and Android are both highly modified versions of Linux.

Lots of mobile phones, set top boxes, TV's, Internet routers, Digital Video Recorders, etc, all use some version of Linux !

Why ! Because it is free ! You can take Linux code, modify it as you wish to make it suit your design and then make it closed and sell it. You only have to look at the games market.
 

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Hmmm. OK, Lots of information from all of you, but now I'm busy (and using MS again) so will have another look tomorrow. Unlike women, I can't multi-task. (My brain is too simple maybe?).
I've lost a drive belt for my lathe, doing some E&@y selling photos, and busy with family matters - then Rugby all afternoon. (season just kicking-off, and I'm desperate for another fix after 6 hours yesterday!). Oh, and re-potting plants, 'n stuff...
But I'll just try and re-load Q40S and be more careful this time (maybe...). "If at first you don't succeed - get a proper man to do it! - or a Woman (they can do lots we men don't manage so well). or a child (best option for clever computer stuff? I just don't understand what they do or what they are talking about?).
I'm sure I had some marbles years ago.... wonder if I have lost those as well?
Have a good one!
K2
 
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