Lets Talk 6X4 Bandsaws !

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goldstar31

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Many bandsaw wheels are 'crowned' to help the tracking.
Again, there is a qustion of aligning with a straight edge
Of course, you may have known these and done them:)
 

SmithDoor

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Has anyone modified the 4x6 to use a 5/8" or 3/4" instead of 1/2" x 64½" blade ??

Dave
 

BaronJ

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Has anyone modified the 4x6 to use a 5/8" or 3/4" instead of 1/2" x 64½" blade ??

Dave
Hi Dave, Guys,

Your problem is going to be that a 5/8" inch wide blade is quite a bit thicker than a 1/2" inch wide one. This means that you are going to have problems getting enough tension on the blade and in turn make it much harder for the guide rollers to twist the blade to the correct angle to get a straight cut. The problem gets worse as the blade gets wider.

You can get a 5/8" inch blade to run but the bearings and hubs will suffer !
 

SmithDoor

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If did I would change to guide rollers to wide size.
In my last shop I welded the blades but only stock 3/4" so pain small 4x6 saw using 1/2" blades.
Just never change the size.
The 5/8" gives a straight cut.

Dave

Hi Dave, Guys,

Your problem is going to be that a 5/8" inch wide blade is quite a bit thicker than a 1/2" inch wide one. This means that you are going to have problems getting enough tension on the blade and in turn make it much harder for the guide rollers to twist the blade to the correct angle to get a straight cut. The problem gets worse as the blade gets wider.

You can get a 5/8" inch blade to run but the bearings and hubs will suffer !
 

Mike Henry

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It’s an Atlas 4353. I checked the inner diameter of the bronze bushing on the upper wheel. It’s supposed to .625. It’s .630. I think a new bushing and then a skim cut on the outer wheel diameter should take care of the problem.
I don't know if you need it or not, but Vintage Machinery might have a manual for your saw. I have a PDF of the manual and saw blade instructions for the 4352 horizontal bandsaw if you want it.

DM or PM me for a copy.
 

SmithDoor

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This is thin blade for metal in ⅝" x 0.032"

Dave

Hi Dave, Guys,

Your problem is going to be that a 5/8" inch wide blade is quite a bit thicker than a 1/2" inch wide one. This means that you are going to have problems getting enough tension on the blade and in turn make it much harder for the guide rollers to twist the blade to the correct angle to get a straight cut. The problem gets worse as the blade gets wider.

You can get a 5/8" inch blade to run but the bearings and hubs will suffer !
 

Hopsteiner

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I don't know if you need it or not, but Vintage Machinery might have a manual for your saw. I have a PDF of the manual and saw blade instructions for the 4352 horizontal bandsaw if you want it.

DM or PM me for a copy.
Mike, thanks for generous offer. I have the manual for this saw. As I mentioned I bought new tires for this saw and I thought this would take care of the problem. It did and it didn’t. It would track for awhile, but then the blade would work its way off. I never used this saw all that much but as I have more time, it is getting more use. I didn’t think the upper bearing was the problem. There didn’t seem to be that much play. But upon closer inspection it appears to be “bell” shaped on its inner diameter. I found a piece of the right sized bronze and I’m turning a bearing. Hopefully, this will solve a very irritating problem. I plan on also checking the outer diameter of the wheel with the new bearing installed. The guide wheels also need a good look. Pictures would show the problem there. The guide wheel adjustment relies on a nut holding the wheels in place. The hole is much larger. A cam adjustment would be much better. When you’re working on other projects you hate to stop to rebuild another machine you use occasionally unless forced. Well, I think I’m being forced. I don’t like using a hacksaw.
 

Hopsteiner

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This is thin blade for metal in ⅝" x 0.032"

Dave
I feel you may be right. The Lennox blade is a good one but it did seem very stiff. And you are trying to twist turn this blade and with the guide system the Atlas uses, may be near impossible. If a new bearing doesn’t solve my problem a narrower blade, more flexible is probably the solution.
 

Hopsteiner

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Took my broke blades back to Bandsaw Blades Direct and they re the blades. Can’t ask for anything more then that. I’m probably trying to go heavier blade then this saw is designed for.
 

Hopsteiner

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Many bandsaw wheels are 'crowned' to help the tracking.
Again, there is a qustion of aligning with a straight edge
Of course, you may have known these and done them:)
The Atlas 4353 upper wheel turns on a canted axis. When you tighten the axis nut on the outside of the saw casting it tips the upper wheel back. This somewhat forces the blade to ride back against the rim of the wheel. As I mentioned, I turned a new bushing for the problem upper wheel. Finished it, wheel nice and snug, turning freely. Fired up the saw, without adjusting guides. The blade walked off. Removed both guides and the blade tracked perfectly. Obviously at this point, the guides were the problem. Adjusted both sets and the blade tracked. Now I firmly agree With BaronJ that I’m trying to make a small saw do to much. I wanted a stronger heavier blade, but 1/2”x .035 is going too heavy. It seems to be working, but the guides are being over worked. Someone mentioned .020 inch thick as a max. They’re probably right.
Many bandsaw wheels are 'crowned' to help the tracking.
Again, there is a qustion of aligning with a straight edge
Of course, you may have known these and done them:)
 

justintime

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Many bandsaw wheels are 'crowned' to help the tracking.
Again, there is a qustion of aligning with a straight edge
Of course, you may have known these and done them:)
Crowning will help on vertical saw wheels. Any crowning on horizontal saws would likely be tooth relief as blade rear edge runs against shoulder of wheels ?
 

goldstar31

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Crowning will help on vertical saw wheels. Any crowning on horizontal saws would likely be tooth relief as blade rear edge runs against shoulder of wheels ?
I don't think that you have fully thoughy out my comments.
No matter what position the bandsaw is placed, 'Croning ' can be beneficial, Upside down in a hammock and the mechanics remain the same. There ino difference whether the band is an abrasive one or a metal one with cutting teeth.
What DOES change the scenario is twisinsting the balde as in the standard 6 x 4 bandsaw,
Mine has 6 ballraces to force the 6 x 4 configuration as we know it. Then to assist flanges on the two wheels seems logical,

Well that's my view

Norman
 

BaronJ

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Hi Guys,

There is absolutely no crowning on my 6X4 Taiwanese bandsaw wheels ! They are dead flat with a rim that the back edge of the blade runs up against. The six guide bearings do the twisting and support the back of the blade during a cut. If the guide holder is not set correctly not only will you not get a square cut but the blade will be run off the loose wheel.

I can get a square cut over a 3" inches diameter bar within a few thou. But you do have to spend the time and effort getting the saw set up properly.
 

Hopsteiner

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Let me jump back in the discussion. I went back to Bandsaw Blades Direct In Grand Rapids, Michigan. Sales plug-great outfit to deal with. As I mentioned, my 1/2 inch .035 blade at 60 inches long was too “stiff” for my Atlas 4353 bandsaw. The blade broke for the second time. And each time, not at the weld. This should tell you something. Well, I brought it back and asked if they would replace it with a 3/8 inch .020 bimetal blade. Now, you would think that all of these breakages were caused by my incompetence. Forcing a small saw to do too much. Usually, it costs you money when you make these kind of errors. They were more then happy to weld me up a new 1/2 inch by .025 60 inch blade. No charge. Great company to deal with. I’m lucky they’re just down the street. We’ll see how this blade works out.
 

justintime

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Hello, To rephrase it slightly, any saw with a “ shoulder wheel “ has no need for any crowning. Any saw with no “ shoulder “ on the wheels will definitely be crowned, horizontal / vertical not withstanding.
 

traction engine

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Sorry, bandsaw side guide rolls cannot have any crown - the blade will wander off to one side. On these small saws, the side rollers are cam followers and of two types - flat with back up ball bearing or shoulder with no back up necessary.
 

Hopsteiner

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When I went to adjust my side rollers, I could see a problem. And a solution. The through bolt which carries the bearing fits in a larger casting hole. Continued adjustment relies on tightening the Nulton the back. A cam adjustment is the way to go and a small project in the future.
 

SmithDoor

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I think Chinese taking cast out the mold and machining.

They did that with machine tool too.

It faster finished product just after poring.
This story a machine tool dealers told.

Dave

Hi Guys,

There is absolutely no crowning on my 6X4 Taiwanese bandsaw wheels ! They are dead flat with a rim that the back edge of the blade runs up against. The six guide bearings do the twisting and support the back of the blade during a cut. If the guide holder is not set correctly not only will you not get a square cut but the blade will be run off the loose wheel.

I can get a square cut over a 3" inches diameter bar within a few thou. But you do have to spend the time and effort getting the saw set up properly.
 

BaronJ

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When I went to adjust my side rollers, I could see a problem. And a solution. The through bolt which carries the bearing fits in a larger casting hole. Continued adjustment relies on tightening the Nulton the back. A cam adjustment is the way to go and a small project in the future.
Hi Hopsteiner,

All four blade guide rollers on my saw are offset cams carrying roller bearings. Actually a bit confusing because you only need to adjust two on one side to support the blade as it twists.

I think mine had a pair of cams fitted at each end instead of a cam and a straight one, so I set the inside ones with the cam facing away from the blade and just used the outside ones to adjust for blade thickness.

It took a while before I realised this.
 

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