Lathe performance testing

Discussion in 'Machine Modifications' started by Niels Abildgaard, Jun 17, 2018.

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  1. Jun 17, 2018 #1

    Niels Abildgaard

    Niels Abildgaard

    Niels Abildgaard

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    More than fifty years ago I had one third of a Myford Super 7.
    It is still in custody of a friend that is chairman in Society against cruelty to Myfords.
    I made him a pair of tangential carbide holders and he uses next to nothing else today.



    Many years later i got a Boxford and improved it immensely (I think) by supporting bed on a piece of granite and making a sensible driving system.

    WP_20180130_001.jpg


    I gave it to my son but after some time I missed the feel of swarf in bed and bought a Boxford AUD very late model.
    Joerlunde Box.jpg
    BoxJunk - Kopi.jpg
    It was a lousy and I scrapped it with relief.Parts were also getting to heavy for handling single-handed in my living room.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2018
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  2. Jun 17, 2018 #2

    Niels Abildgaard

    Niels Abildgaard

    Niels Abildgaard

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    A week ago I bought a cheap chineese WM210 lathe

    https://www.amazon.de/BananaB-Präzisions-Metalldrehmaschine-Drehmaschine-Drehbank/dp/B07DDH82JF/ref=sr_1_3/260-0657212-5441825?ie=UTF8&qid=1529223772&sr=8-3&keywords=mini+drehbank

    The toolholder compound slide is a disaster but fundamental accurasy is impressive.
    A first test of DTI and test bar show no error at all and lathe is just standing on a table
    WP_20180616_001[1].jpg

    Spindle is stiffer in bending than my former Boxford and noise not unpleasant(hearing aids disarmed).
    Spindle bearings are two taper rollers 62mm outside 30mm inside and spindle bore 21mm/MT3.
    My next modification will be making a spindle with two 62mm/40mmmm inside bearings.
    Bore can then be 26mm and nose will suit ER40 collets.
    Its first job was to slim own spindle flange easing chuck change.
    Went without fuss even if lathe is free-standing on a table in my living room
    WP_20180616_002[2].jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2018
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  3. Jun 17, 2018 #3

    Niels Abildgaard

    Niels Abildgaard

    Niels Abildgaard

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    I have acces to my my first Myford and my first BoxRockFord and want to judge the performance of my chineese love.
    The video with an Unbrako 12.9 screw being reduced shows a possible testing method.
    Measure mass before and after and measure the tool-action time.Make a video maybe.
    Mass of 12.9 bolt steel removed per second will be a very good performance parameter and 12.9 screws can be had everywhere.
    Dimension of screw is not important.
    Anybody wants to join the fun?
    I look forward to see my modified, cheap chineese beat old ,over-rated iron.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2018
  4. Jun 17, 2018 #4

    goldstar31

    goldstar31

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    It’s quite n interesting account and Thank You
    I bought a Sieg c4 to live indoors

    Regards

    N
     
  5. Jun 19, 2018 #5

    goldstar31

    goldstar31

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    I see that 'factory reconditioned' Super 7's are now available from RDG at £2995 and that its without any accessories or gear box. I see that Axminster Tools is selling their Sieg SC4 for just a bit more than £1200.

    I was offered a rather more modern update of the Myford with gearbox and some accessories and industrial stand for £3250.

    In the discussion about the possible purchase, I was told that the newer Myford motors are more powerful than earlier models( like mine- a Mark1)

    Regards

    Norman
     
  6. Jun 19, 2018 #6

    Niels Abildgaard

    Niels Abildgaard

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    My WM210 was 508£ including transport to my living room and VAT.
    I am checking runouts etc at the moment and can hardly believe Myfords or Siegs are more accurate.
    As I can judge, it is sold from a chineese firm(Shanghai) operating from a container unloading station in Belgium.
    There are a lot of rent seeking sharks in the English pond.
    It will remove metal soon and will be measured doing so
    It will be fun to compete with old english and lesser breed chineese.
    Anybody joining the game?
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
  7. Jun 19, 2018 #7

    goldstar31

    goldstar31

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    I paid £350 for the secondhand Sieg- with some bits. I then paid £50 for the new DRO's and added two new chucks, a fixed steady, a faceplate and an adapter to------take MYFORD chucks and collets etc.
    So I have interchangeabilty( is that a word?) and can continue to use adapters to make use of Number 2 Morse taper tooling on things like dividing heads, rotary tables and my sets of tool and cutter grinder equipment.

    So-- yes- I'm certainly interested but hope that my version of things does not distract your posting

    Please continue-- of only for me

    Regards

    Norman

    Apologies, I forgot that I bought a 4 jaw self centering chuck as well. Nice1
     
  8. Jun 19, 2018 #8

    Hopper

    Hopper

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    You can probably get even greater performance by using synthetic grease in the bearings instead of dino grease.
     
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  9. Jun 19, 2018 #9

    goldstar31

    goldstar31

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    Err-uhm!! Myfords take high bollock ISO32 oil on the spindle bearings and SAE20 on the rest.o_O
     
  10. Jun 19, 2018 #10

    DJP

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    I question the usefulness of any ad hoc lathe comparisons. To do it right these machines should be in a lab with a constant voltage supply, the same tooling and set up plus multiple runs where averages are used for comparison. Even then the manufacturers will surely find errors in the methodology or move the comparison to value for price.

    My opinion is that every lathe can be optimized for the job it is doing that day and that's the best we can do. Having the bragging rights for ownership of the 'best performing' lathe doesn't mean much to me.

    I'm only pushing back a little to see why there is interest in lathe performance across brands and generations.
     
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  11. Jun 19, 2018 #11

    goldstar31

    goldstar31

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    Perhaps someone should mention that the original Myford company went into administration
    I assume Boxford also failed.

    The name of Myford was bought by RDG tools from the administrators of Myford.


    This has been made many times here

    Regards

    Norman.
     
  12. Jun 20, 2018 #12

    bazmak

    bazmak

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    Also remember that Myford was building the 7 series lathe 70 yrs ago and most are producing good work
    They were not cheap but have stood the test of time.Like most english companies that produced Good,last
    a lifetime products they went bust.I too have a chinese C4 and its good for the money,but will it be here in 50 yrs ?
    The cheap but good quality chinese lathe (after lots of mods) brought affordable home model machining to
    the masses. Praise all round to all quality UK,USA etc machine tools
     
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  13. Jun 20, 2018 #13

    Hopper

    Hopper

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    And in its day, the cheap but good quality Myford ML7 brought affordable home machining to the masses. The ML7 was cheaper than its predecessor, the M-type Myford/Drummond and in later years was considerably cheaper than a Boxford or a Raglan Little John. How it ever picked up the "Rolls Royce of Lathes" moniker is a mystery. They were a good enough basic lathe but built down to a price, much like the Chinese lathes today. More like "the Morris Minor of lathes" really.

    It is telling, though, that a new Chinese lathe is found to do exactly what a new lathe is supposed to do and that is considered cause for jubilation and claims of superiority over 70-year-old machines. I'd be disappointed if my new lathe DIDN'T perform that well.

    Anyway, the heck will all this new stuff, I'll carry on with my 1937 Drummond.
     
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  14. Jun 20, 2018 #14

    MRA

    MRA

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    > I assume Boxford also failed.

    Actually, they're still going. Here you go:
    http://www.boxford.co.uk/equipment/equipment-overview/

    They still supply parts from stock for what one might think of as a 'Boxford', which they call a '3656', here:
    http://www.boxford-software.com/spares/3656menu.html

    - though I think as parts run out, they become 'nla'.

    I was given a Model A; if I had more room I'd go for a Colchester Student or perhaps the S&B 1024 which might get slung from work. I think one gets much better value in a bigger machine, probably because not many folks (including me) have the space. Perhaps I'd draw the line at a DSG :)
     
  15. Jun 20, 2018 #15

    MRA

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    ...Strikes me this conversation (rather like talking about cars) depends on ones point of reference. My previous lathe was very, very worn out, very unusual, and very old indeed. Rather like a car I once had which did 500 miles to the gallon of oil, and 1000 miles to the head-gasket. Sometimes it's good to come to any old pair of shoes which (merely) fit, from a few years in a pair a size too small!
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2018
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  16. Jun 21, 2018 #16

    Niels Abildgaard

    Niels Abildgaard

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    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
  17. Jun 21, 2018 #17

    99Norton

    99Norton

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    Having rebuilt an early 1930's Thornton that was far to big to fit in the garage when I bought my house I downsized to a clapped out 10" Atlas that needed a bed up rebuild and now have 14 x 40" Chinese generic lathe. For the price I got a lot of bang for my buck with the new one. Like every machine it had a few niggles that need fettling but keeps getting better. I think the steel and iron was better on the old stuff but modern design and finite element analysis mean that a lot of the new ones are actually stiffer which is good. I'm in agreement with DJP as I've seen some amazing work done on clapped out machines by top notch machinists. That said it is so nice not to have to compensate for wear.
    Niels that project looks very interesting, something that most of us just dream about in the 'one day' catagory.
     
  18. Jun 23, 2018 #18

    Niels Abildgaard

    Niels Abildgaard

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    Destination is nothing,journey everything.


    When I have made my new dream spindle and put the assembly on granite I will fill lathe bed with granite -epoxy mix.
    Scrappers nightmare and very rigid.
    It would have been smarter to use the sligthly smaller version:

    https://www.amazon.de/BananaB-Präzisions-Metalldrehmaschine-Drehmaschine-Drehbank/dp/B07DG1YPWQ/ref=sr_1_1_sspa/259-3701518-3043119?ie=UTF8&qid=1529177412&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=mini+drehbank&th=1

    Cheaper and more rigid.
    Will do next time.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 24, 2018
  19. Nov 17, 2018 at 4:15 PM #19

    Niels Abildgaard

    Niels Abildgaard

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    I have put the WM210 on hold for the time being.
    Facing was 100 my CONVEX on a 120mm diameter sample and that is not OK.
    Some brave soul on the web had same problem and remilled the slide.
    I like to think he is younger than me because I feel to tired to contemplate it.
    It was instant love when I saw this adwert:

    https://www.hbm-machines.com/produc...-hbm-250-x-550-profi-metaaldraaibank-compleet.

    It has got Gipsy feet and a base of diabas/dolerit from a former gravestone .

    WP_20181117_004[1].jpg

    Testbar DTI is within hysteresis of my swiss TesaTast instrument that is plus minus 5 my.
    A planing test gave 10 my CONCAVITY on a 120mm dia testpiece.Very,very OK.
    The distance between headslock and rear side of flange was 16mm and to narrow for my fingers.
    I let the machine autoimprove so gap is now 20mm.

    WP_20181117_002[1].jpg

    Taking of the 3 jawchuck is less than a minute and putting faceplate on is about two.
    It was expected that turning would be unsecure due to the castoring wheels.
    I have tried it on four wood blocks,but saw no difference and being able to move the package is nice to have.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2018 at 8:32 AM
  20. Nov 17, 2018 at 4:47 PM #20

    Cogsy

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    What is the 'my' unit you mention? I'm not familiar with it.
     

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