Lathe (another discussion)

[TheHomeMechanic]

Hello,

so since i have a mill i need to buy a lathe too (for pistons, piston rings, etc)
I have looked through so many discussions online but i'd like some opinions from a model builders perspective.
What are the tolerance are we looking at for model engine building? (4T, 2T, Nitro).
And can those two lathe's do this?


I am looking at an Optimum (https://www.vynckier.biz/en/lathes/tu2406---tu2406v-2-3)
And a HBM (https://www.hbm-machines.com/produc...ldraaibankensub/hbm-330-x-600-metaaldraaibank)

Since the Optimum pretty much costs a much as the HBM i assume it's better quality? (and that Optimum is without tooling, the HBM has everything when you buy it).
But the HBM is 340kg's, the Optimum 125kg.
Since i know weight = more stability (in most cases), does this mean the HBM will be better?

I got plenty of space in the garage, i just can't buy a good old one which ways a lot more since i can't get in in the garage without a big crane. I got a small entrance (1.2m wide) on the side where i have to move everything through.

Thank you in advance.

 

[tim]

just a thourt but no crane needed if you find one that you can fit in the door ? mate rollers and time is all thats needed or a slight strip of gards and the like it can be dun ! never stop looking

 

[lohring]

I've done well with used machines over the years. My Supermax (Bridgeport clone) mill has only needed a variable sheave bushing replaced after nearly 30 years of service in my shop. It was well used before that. If you're careful you can get a lathe complete with tooling for a very reasonable price. After making do with a Unimat 3 I bought a lightly used South Bend from the local community college. It was a great machine with lots of tooling. It is small enough to fit in a home shop but big enough for most model engine building. I donated it to a friend after 25 years in my shop. My current lathe is a 1947 Monarch 10ee. It's way more lathe than I need but cost less than its scrap price. It's a complex machine that's very easy to use but hard to repair. It also needs a fork lift to move it. In the US there are some great Hardinge machines as well as others that have been retired from tool rooms. I bet similar machines are available in other countries. This video gives some advice on what to check. The earlier parts discuss his philosophy on several common used lathes.

Lohring Miller

 

[abby]

A lathe for making model engine parts need not be very heavy to give suitable accuracy , and even relatively large machines can be moved with a little ingenuity.
I have a Pultra lathe which is tiny yet capable of turning items from a few thou diameter up to almost 3 inches with repeatable accuracy of a thou or better , second hand it cost less than £150.
I also have a Boxford (Southbend clone) which I stripped completely down to pieces that could be moved in a wheel barrow , transported through the house into the workshop and re-assembled.
As a 70 year old it was hard work but 10 years ago I would have found it easy.
For the use you describe a small second hand machine is worth considering , but I appreciate that whilst here in the UK these are readily available , this may not be the case for your location.
Dan.

 

[Blogwitch]

Most of my chucks are HBM, and I have had no quarrel with their quality and build.
If it was me going for one or the other the HBM would be my choice (even though it looks to be a far eastern machine) although a little larger than the Optimum, AND it comes with the required tooling. What will do a lot will also do a little, so the larger machine wins hands down.

One thing that must be taken into account, a machine is only as good as the operator, so the more time you leave yourself to set up the machine to it's optimal settings the better, this applies to BOTH machines, and believe me, that will be required.
I have a Chinese machine, just somewhat larger than the HBM one and I took a fair while to set it up correctly, and it has never failed to deliver, it even surprises me at times how accurate it is.

Hope this helps

John

 

[Hopper]

I've had personal experience with only one Optimum lathe and it was not good. It was a small TU180 or something, a micro/mini lathe. But very poor quality. Came with a massive bow in the bed, (over .25mm), lead screw so out of alignment the carriage jammed from new. Ways and dovetails very poorly finished.

But with a sample size of 1, it's hard to say what this indicates about overall quality of the brand. They market themselves as "Optimum, Germany" but the machine was very obviously of Chinese origin and quality.

After I sorted out this lathe for its owner, rescraping ways, aligning leadscrew etc. the owner went on to build several very nice models engines on it. So the basics are good but the execution is poor.

 

[Entropy455]

Talk to your local equipment movers. Have them pay a site visit to your shop, and ask them what they're capable of moving for you, and for how much $$$. Do this BEFORE you purchase (or even shop for) a machine - so you know what's feasible, and the expected cost.

Sometimes high-quality big & heavy machines sell cheap, simply because they're big & heavy. And sometimes you'll be pleasantly surprised at how reasonable rigging/delivery services can be for heavy machinery (i.e. shop around).

Very rarely do I hear people complain about the performance of a heavy-duty metal working machine. I do however hear people complain about chatter problems, and underpowered headstocks, and not enough bed, and too small of chuck, or a flimsy tailstock, or accelerated wear, or poor parts support, etc - on smaller "light-duty" machines.

That being said, this is a website for making miniature engines - the vast majority of which do not require large and heavy-duty metal working equipment to fabricate. . . . Thus the real question is, how much reserve-capacity do you actually want/need within your lathe/mill for your hobby?

 

[TheHomeMechanic]

Thank you all for the input, I'll go talk to some people for moving a lathe, found a big one from a reputable machinery shop near by. It's around 2200lbs, for the same price as the chinese HBM ones.
Yeah setting up seems to be the hardest parth (atleast for me). My last time working with lathe's and mill's is back in school, 5 years ago. So i'm not that skilled at all, i just want to get back into it.
From my experience it's better so save up a bit then to have to buy another one because your first lathe/mill was ****. I have some HBM tools for the mill here, and you can just feel it's not the best quality. But for the price i cannot complain (on most parts).

My plan was to also work on motorcycle parts, since i am a mechanic. Would save me lot's of time and hopefully money.
Thanks again for all the advice, i might look into the HBM one since it's around 700LBS, but i might save up aswel.
I'll give it some thining when the misses is sleeping and i have some alone time.

Greetings,
TheHomeMechanic.

 

[goldstar31]

Actually it is NOT what is expected. Let me explain? I've sort of explained all about it earlier.
Bergen has a regular direct link with Albert Edward Dock in North Shields. For as long as I can recall, Newcastle was Norway's Dental and Medical College. Again, Norwegians actually come across to Christmas shop here. As far as model engineering is concerned, there is Axminster Tools within 'walking distance' from the Ferry Terminal.
Indeed, I have bought from the firm and have been satisfied with what I've had. If people would read posts, I have both a Myford and a Sieg and have added a mill attachment.


In the local 'patois', we still speak a form of Norwegian.

Ah Well?

Norm

 

[dkwflight]

Hi
This guy has an Optimum lathe and has done some mods to make his more accurate and usful to him
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCY8gSLTqvs38bR9X061jFWw

The HBM looks very nice. I wouldn't mind having that one in my sun porch

 

[comstock-friend]

Not knowing where you are on this globe limits what I might suggest. Since your picks are priced in Euros it guess you are not in North America. In NA I'd go with good old American iron, especially if doing bike work along with the model work. The bike work kind of takes you away from the bench top stuff and into swings of 12 inch [300 mm] or preferably more...

 

[clockworkcheval]

The members of our Horology Society have a variety of machines among which Optimum and HBM. However in the club-workshop we have Schaublin, Aciera and Wabeco. We find that members after some time noticing the difference also upgrade to these Swiss or German machines. Also Weiler is popular. These used machines are about the same price as new Chinese but much sturdier and much more precise. The weight is about 500 - 600 kg. We prefer to mount the machines on a supporting frame to get a nice working height. This supporting frame can be made to accomodate a hydraulic hand-pumptruck which makes moving the machines quite easy. The German build Wabeco machines are much lighter compared to Schaublin and Aciera, but according to our machine-measurements and practical results they are a precision class better than in size comparable Chinese build machines.

 

[goldstar31]

I've just been offered a rather unusual machine called a Murad Bormilathe which is actually a combined lathe, boring machine and mill and apparently was inspired by machines on German submarines. Mr Murad designed the lathe together with the Antarctica and both machines were used on Antarctic Expeditions. I was deeply involved with the Royal Air Force Antarctic Flight and its Antarctic Austers when they were at RAF Hendon- now the RAF Museum just out of London.
The lathe inspired a New Zealander - a J.A. Radford to add 'elevating heads' onto his Myford Super7B and Jack wrote it up in his book which is still in-print.

As I continued my interest in such things, Mountain rescue, skiing, climbing and knowing the outcome of the bus in the old film 'The Italian Job'( Oh, yes, it happened to me), I fancy buying the machine offered and having the Bormilathe professionally restored.

Chers

Norm

 

[TheHomeMechanic]

Yeah i looked around for a while, and i found some (what appears to be) good deals online. All used though.

My first one is an optimum D280 x 700 for 1400$, tooling included. It's not that old and not so much used, but again some what for a lighter machine.
https://www.2dehands.be/doe-het-zel...raaibanken/optimum-d-280-x-700-456301115.html

The second one seems more ridged, it's a Emco Compact 10, just the lathe with no tooling, from a dealer. It's build in the 90's.
https://www.deleeuw-machinehandel.nl/fotos4/item676_1_27121543.jpg

Are any of those actually worth the money? And if so wich one would you get?

Edit: NVM, they ask 3.5K for the emco.

 

[goldstar31]

Have you considered the addition of possible costs from Customs Duty?
Regards

N

 

[TheHomeMechanic]

Have you considered the addition of possible costs from Customs Duty?
Regards

N

I live in Belgium, if you buy something from inside the EU, there are no custums. So no worries there.

 

[goldstar31]

Apologies, I thought that you lived in Norway.

So you have 6 months if you want to buy tax free in the UK.

Clears throat!!! I bought my Sieg for only £350 and there is not much difference between Euros and Sterling---at present

So in 6 months time there will a queue of lorries waiting for the customs clearances on the UK side.

Of course , yesterday, I was dining with the---------------------Chinese

If you can't beat them ---- join them!

Norm

PM There's a rather interesting Murad Antarctica lathe in Manchester for-- £300.


Buy it-- and go on an Antarctic Expedition