Lathe accident, Tool organizer, bad idea.

[ShopShoe]

It may seem redundant to mention this, but I have a practice of making sure I know what BOTH of my hands are doing. I have borrowed this from electronics back when lethal voltages were running around tube circuits. Whenever doing something, make sure that your OTHER hand is away from the work, even if you put it in a pocket.

I generally don't allow casual watchers in my shop, but in the few times one of the grandsons wanted to watch, I made him hold onto things like table legs so I knew his hands were not going near anything else.

--ShopShoe

 

[jj-smith]

It's good to do those things with people who can't be kept under a close eye, and if you've learned to keep your hands where your brain thinks they are, then hats off to you.
I know for myself that I can do the odd stupid thing without thinking, and haven't learned, and may never learn to be 100% safe!
As idiotic as that may sound, it is the truth and I know myself too well to ever want to say I've arrived.
Safety is a journey in self preservation and the best you can do is a conscious, determined and dogged persuing of ways to make that happen.

I believe I may have taken your original thread and stepped on it Scota.
I apologise and do feel bad for your friend's serious mishap.
But it can be a sure wakeup call to others too, and as I read this thing, I was reminded to DO something about my own situation, so I thank you for posting it.

Regards, J.

 

[gus]

It's good to do those things with people who can't be kept under a close eye, and if you've learned to keep your hands where your brain thinks they are, then hats off to you.
I know for myself that I can do the odd stupid thing without thinking, and haven't learned, and may never learn to be 100% safe!
As idiotic as that may sound, it is the truth and I know myself too well to ever want to say I've arrived.
Safety is a journey in self preservation and the best you can do is a conscious, determined and dogged persuing of ways to make that happen.

I believe I may have taken your original thread and stepped on it Gus.
I apologise and do feel bad for your friend's serious mishap.
But it can be a sure wakeup call to others too, and as I read this thing, I was reminded to DO something about my own situation, so I thank you for posting it.

Regards, J.

Hi JJ.

No problem and no worries. Feel free to contribute.
The plant I ran for 20 years had ''Zero'' accidents. Gus was known to be rough and tough on offenders.
A mate of mine at Continental Can,removed safety brake device from a can top lid power press and had his right thumb chopped off on the stamping die.
Safety device was removed 10 years before this accident.

 

[gus]

It may seem redundant to mention this, but I have a practice of making sure I know what BOTH of my hands are doing. I have borrowed this from electronics back when lethal voltages were running around tube circuits. Whenever doing something, make sure that your OTHER hand is away from the work, even if you put it in a pocket.

I generally don't allow casual watchers in my shop, but in the few times one of the grandsons wanted to watch, I made him hold onto things like table legs so I knew his hands were not going near anything else.

--ShopShoe

Hi ShopShoe,

For same reason I gave up electronics,radio/amplifier/TV repair hobby when my baby daughter and son came in 1974/1976. By the time they were old enough in 1990, Gus was left far behind same hobby. Friends would drop by with their vacuum tube radios for repairs and turned away as I had given away all tools and equipment.
Superhet Radios were fun to build,repair and IF tuned. My first crystal radio kept me up listening to local stations.The Regenerative Radio gave me better reception. Spent weeks trying to tune IF transformers and finally tuned in very first reception and audio thru speaker.
Gus now have too many hobbies. I survived my fair share of electric shocks.
Went into installation of High Tension (6.6kv)Motors and starters.I am still alive. Never never touch a dead HT cable.It may still have a nasty shock.230v DC can be deadly. Gus survived.
Take care.

 

[gus]

The 100 ton China Power Press which I bought to stamp motor slide rails and misc parts was always on my ''safety first mind''. The Drop Shield installed to satisfy the Ministry of Labour was not entirely useful. When longer than usual parts are stamped same shield cannot be lowered.
Power press was done with two hand operations. That is press operator would require two hands to operate press. Since operation no hand injury from day one.
Plant closed and all machine tools sold 2001. Gus laid off with a very generous hand shake by Ingersoll-Rand.th_wav
Next chapter of my life. Balcony machineshop activities,fishing and travelling.

 

[Nick Hulme]

I use all the wall space in my workshop, a rack with 40+ quick change tool holders is located behind one lathe headstock.
More racking with chucks, and other tooling fills the wall to the right of the tool holders.
I could see this as a safety issue for someone who might consider reaching over a lathe whilst it's turning.
What I can't see is why anyone would consider reaching over or through running machinery when it takes just a second to disengage the clutch.
If I'm making a batch of parts and need several tools I will often bring them to the front of the lathe but this is for speed, not safety, I don't change tools with the work turning.

- Nick

 

[spoonerandforker]

It is gratifying to see this thread so long and well followed. Most accidents involve more than one contributing factor. Tool rack behind the lathe, rough stock, long clothing, working alone, especially either early or late when we may not be at peak attentiveness, time pressure to get it done now, and a long list of potential contributing factors lead to accidents. Safety involves eliminating as many of these weak links as possible, not just one. So I remember the words of my father, "Belt AND suspenders". Multiple redundant safety measures represent strength not weakness in a shop.

 

[Blogwitch]

As mentioned by me in another post a few days ago, accidents don't happen, they are caused.

Also another thing not mentioned much is common sense, if you haven't got it, you shouldn't be out anywhere by yourself, especially in a workshop.

John

 

[mikelkie]

A m6 tap went into my upper left arm after dropping it on a spinning chuck
since then, i made myself a rack behind me which can be hoisted up to the roof and out the way when finished. (machines has no brain, use your own!)

 

[hrefab]

I'm very sorry about what happened to this fellow but, nevertheless, I have to make one comment.

A tool rack behind the lathe such that he has to lean across the spinning work to reach the rack? Give me a break.

If you're interested in safety, you'll immediately see how bad an idea this has to be. Installing that rack wasn't a spur of the moment thing. He had plenty of time to reflect on its eventual use and the potential for danger it represented.

I don't want to be the insensitive lout in the group, but I have to agree with Mklotz... WHAT WAS HE THINKING? This is a self inflicted wound... Kind of like killing your parents and then asking for mercy because you're an orphan.

I just cannot for the life of me visualize ANYONE with a lick of sense putting tooling in a position where you'd have to reach over running equipment to get to it..

This screams out "DARWIN AWARD"... Unfortunately, this fellow is going to spend the rest of his life reflecting on a very poor and thoughtless choice.

 

[Nick Hulme]

I just cannot for the life of me visualize ANYONE with a lick of sense putting tooling in a position where you'd have to reach over running equipment to get to it..

No one ever has to reach over running equipment to reach the wall behind it, worst case scenario one can take the tools for each job and transfer them to a safely positioned tool tray, swapping tool sets between jobs, unless, of course, you change your work-piece with the machine running too. ;-)

Another popular option (and I really like this one!) is to stop the work spinning by means of a clutch or off switch, if you're in the good habit of stopping the machine to change tools then all the better, your work will always be still when accessing any tool rack, whatever it's position.

I just cannot for the life of me visualise anyone with a lick of sense thinking that the danger in this scenario is the positioning of the tools when it is clearly the behaviour of the operator.

Anyone without the sense to deal safely with this scenario should never be allowed to operate machinery, they'll find a way to hurt themselves, or worse, someone else, whatever you do to try to deal with their slipshod approach to operating machinery.

- Nick

 

[hrefab]

Another reason why I'm sticking with my HF mini lathe. It can hurt you but probably won't break your arm or kill you.

Don't take that for granted. You would be surprised (and not pleasantly) how much damage a small lathe can do

 

[oilmac]

A good friend hurt himself very badly. He has many many years of experience as a machinist and gunsmith. He has a wonderfull shop.

The machine is a big Lablond, 15x56 or there abouts. He has a phase changer in the shop to run it.

He made a magnetic system to hold his lathe tool holders. It was located behind the lathe and above. He was making a cut and reached over the spindle to put a tool away. The work was rough enough to grab his sleeve. The work wound his arm up around it several times. It pulled his head down to the chuck and cut off part of his ear. Just then the circut breaker kicked off. If he had been running faster the inerta would have killed him. If running slower the torque would have killed him.

Finding himself alone and wrapped up in the machine he was able to kick the clutch petal and unwind himself. He was able to call 911 and get help.

He had several compound fractures of the bones in his arm and his hand was mangled. This thumb is ruined. The arm healed up pretty well. Modern medicine amazes me. He is still getting around and making lots of great projects and having fun.

Gads, It makes me queasy to write this.

Nick,
The ghastly accident which happened to your friend does not bear thinking about, He was obviously comfortable operating his big lathe for many years, but a combination of a badly placed tool rack, & most likely fatigue or a moments forgetfulness was all it took for misfortune to strike.
Over here in the U.K. about 25 years ago a turner was horribly mangled and lost his life by the instance of a loose rag on his sleeve being caught on his work piece and dragging him over the work piece to his death, no one would want to witness the aftermath of such a horror, thankfully more modern work practices and safety awareness has given us a safer work environment.

My one worry in today's " Ultra safety and aware world" , Is i believe the scenario where future generations will have any natural self preservation and the natural in built sense of danger negated from their psyche by being mollycoddled, I think in many instances we are rearing future generations who will not be able to think for themselves in a work environment.
So saying to be safety conscious is a far better and happier world than say 150 years ago in which nobody cared two hoots regarding workers welfare.

Leaving the industrial scene aside , where the home shop worker is concerned, I think the safety record seems to be pretty good , or else we just do not hear of the disasters that have befallen the careless, stupid , or inexperienced , or arrogant home shop operative, Recently in a small way I have been attempting to mentor one guy, he is well educated to a high degree , But he has a totally unteachable spirit , and is therefore a danger to himself and everyone else in his vicinity
The average glory hole in which Home Shop lurkers reside range from a cupboard or closet in the house to very fine establishments which would put many commercial concerns to shame.
In my small shop at home, which like Lucy "Has just Growed " over the decades has space at a great premium,therefore behind the lathe & shaper I have tools and equipment hanging or on racks, This lack of space has meant over about forty years I have had to instill into my methodology "Strictly no leaning over any machine whilst it is working" so therefore we have another very valuable by product, No one else operates my machinery or works in my shop , Therefore me and only me is responsible for my own actions.
I also have another shop with larger machine tools, in which I have no racks everything comes from a cupboard and goes back to a cupboard
The premise guys is work safely , wisely and be happy And always guard against the unforeseen occurrence.

 

[Nick Hulme]

I have had to instill into my methodology "Strictly no leaning over any machine whilst it is working".

I'm struggling to think of a circumstance where leaning over a machine with exposed moving parts/tools/work would be a sane option.

Tool rack positioning is only unsafe if the tools or rack are positioned such that they can injure the user. If a running machine between the user and tool rack poses a danger then the actual cause is that which resides in or is absent from the space between the user's ears, not the position of the rack.

 

[bootie]

It is so obviously unsafe to have to reach over to the back of a lathe or even a mill, especially when one is working alone, yet we can see it repeatedly in photos and videos.

 

[editor123]

To the extreme disgust of an author, I refused to review a book on beginning machining because he advocated wearing long sleeves to protect his arms from hot chips. His entire attitude was one of a casual approach to machining.

I'm guessing he won't be advertising in my magazine.

I clearly remember the ugly pictures shown to the machine technology class I attended at the local Jr. College. Ugly, ugly. And even a grinder accident where the person's long hair got caught. Fortunately for him, he was scalped therefore before the grinder pulled him much past the guard window which he did break with his forehead.

 

[billmck]

Not even nitrile gloves! Recently, an experienced machinist in our company put on nitrile gloves to remove a finished part from a manual lathe (like the ones many of us have at home). He decided it needed a lick with a file and proceeded to do so without taking off his gloves. He accidentally touched the work with his glove while filing. The glove had enough grip and strength to pull him into the machine and separate his hand from his arm. The first aid team got him and his hand to the hospital where he underwent reattachment surgery - I don't know what level of success he has had. At home this could easily have been fatal.
No sleeves, loose clothes, jewelry, apron ties, long hair and no gloves of any kind, not once, not ever.

 

[GrahamJTaylor49]

Always remember the old axiom, familiarity breeds contempt.
Many years ago i was setting up a Herbert 2D capstan lathe for company I was working for. It had a collet chuck and a bar feed at the rear end of the head stock. Having set the machine up using a piece of scrap stock I opened the collet chuck and the bar feed pushed the scrap stock up to the capstan end but didn't fall out. Me, knowing what I was doing, knocked the scrap stock out of the way with my right hand. The bar feed then fed the length of steel, complete with the burr through the collet chuck and, still running at 500 rpm, trapped my hand between the bar and the capstan tail stock. I couldn't reach the off switch and on the older machines there was no emergency off button or brake. Luckily for me there were a number of other people in the workshop at the time. One swithced the machine off and another took me to Lymington hospital to get my hand put back together. I now have a Colchester Bantam 2000 lathe and a Bridgport mill in my garage / hobbies room. I have never put anything at the back of the lathe and all the tooling for the mill is to the side. Don't ever forget, a machine has an awfull lot of power and will do a soft body a great deal of damage. I was lucky and have full use of my hand again and all my power tools have emergency cut outs and brakes. Engoy your hobbies but please be carefull, machines can kill.

 

[Hopper]

Editor123

To the extreme disgust of an author, I refused to review a book on beginning machining because he advocated wearing long sleeves to protect his arms from hot chips. His entire attitude was one of a casual approach to machining.

How do you think anything ever gets done in machine shops in cold climates? I've never seen one yet where the boss will spend the money to heat a machine shop to short-sleeved temperatures in winter. Long sleeves are widely used around moving machinery all over the world. Flapping, unbuttoned sleeves, well that's a different matter. But overalls with the wrist snaps done up are just fine.

 

[Nick Hulme]

I have never put anything at the back of the lathe and all the tooling for the mill is to the side.

An admirable approach for the forgetful, unwary and careless and to be highly recommended to anyone not able to infer the correct use of clutches and off switches in rendering machinery stationary and safe.

A logical extension of this approach is to also never use sharp or rotating work or tooling as this cannot be easily placed "to one side" of the machine. :thumbup:

I am reminded of an apocryphal tale about a remote IT support worker who's closing gambit was to ask if the utterly clueless customer had the original packaging and documentation for their product and on receiving an affirmative response suggested they pack up and return their PC as the were obviously not fit to own one. :hDe: