Information on Coles Corliss Model

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stevenewonics

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I recently acquired a very nice Corliss Model which I think is about 50 years old. It looks like it is a Coles' model as it matches the one on the cover of the catalog 22. I was hoping to get some information on this model such as when was it first offered? Is it a model of a known engine or an original of the Corliss type? Can you still get drawings as Coles appears to be out of business? What scale is this model? What era of Corliss engines does it best represent?

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Hello Steve,
Original drawings are dated of 1946.
Coles sales the kit from 1986 but not sure.
I will start the building of this model right now
LeZap
 
I'm presently building this engine. Drawings are available and maybe some castings from Jeffrey Lehn of Baden, PA. Ph. 724 931 0580.
Big project but a very nice engine.
 
Hi Guys,

These pictures might be of interest then...

Let me introduce you to Agnes !
Agnes_Corlis-20.JPG
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Agnes_Corlis-03.JPG
Agnes_Corlis-04.JPG
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Agnes_Corlis-06.JPG
Agnes_Corlis-07.JPG
Agnes_Corlis-08.JPG
Agnes_Corlis-09.JPG
Agnes_Corlis-10.JPG


I have a lot more pictures if you want to see them. They were originally posted here but seem to have disappeared.
 
I recently acquired a very nice Corliss Model which I think is about 50 years old. It looks like it is a Coles' model as it matches the one on the cover of the catalog 22. I was hoping to get some information on this model such as when was it first offered? Is it a model of a known engine or an original of the Corliss type? Can you still get drawings as Coles appears to be out of business? What scale is this model? What era of Corliss engines does it best represent?

View attachment 110172
Yes, this is an original Coles Corliss, I have two of them and both are incomplete. I have been working on one for about 35 years, the other I bought from a dying machinist who said it was complete (it wasn't). He gave me the original plans that came with it. The drafter claimed he/she copyrighted it in 1946 and is well known amongst Corliss model makers. Eloda Ray is the copyrighter, presuming that is a woman's name, the initials that went with it as drafter were A.W. Ray. By today's standards these drawings are AWFUL, however, for that day, being no standards at all, the drawings are BRILLIANT. The originals are sometimes nearly impossible to decipher, many times did I have to refer to another part to decipher a dimension. THe biggest problem is that the drawings are so "busy", that is totally crowded with unnecessary dims and lettering. He put the same dim in up to 3-4 times for a single part. NOt only was this bad practice but it took up a tremendous amount of space and made the drawings very cluttered.

With all that criticism, I have a tremendous amount of respect and regard for whomever, A.W. was. Now, this particular Coles model is often referred to as the Coles/Ray Corlisss as this particular model almost always uses the Ray drawings. I have the drawings, however, I have updated a few to more modern machining methods, I thimk several, I combined into one piece, as I could see no reason for not having a single piece, those would be the steam and exhaust valve "stanchions" and the part that attaches the slide section to the crank body. I believe (but am not sure) that the parts were made in two pieces because amateurs in the 30s, 40s, 50s most likely could not do the machining we are capable of doing to day. There may have been some other reason, but I do not know what that could be.

There are a few other parts that instead of using the threads, I have substituted several tiny bolts to attaching them. these would be the steam chest bushing and the exhaust chest bushing. I did this because I cannot make the threads on these two bushings and I wonder how anyone could do this. If anyone knows how to put threads on a tiny amount of space such as these on the threading area, let me know. Making a few bolt holes and threads is very easy, I don't understand why anyone would even attempt to put threads in this impossible place.

There are also places I changed the drawings to make the machine more efficient. At the entrance of the steam port in the engine, the entrance was "flat" which produces steam bounce (that is, it bounces right back at the incoming steam creating turbulence) so I put the steam entrance as a slanted plane or best as a curved plane (the very best being a parabola but probably impossible to make for amateurs particularly for so little advantage). Also the exhaust baffle, I changed a little for the same reason, reducing turbulence.

I bought my kit about 40 years ago from someone out of Portland (Oregon) for 200$, an outrageous amount for those days. If they were still around, I believe they would be about 1000$ today--also an outrageous price but they are all out of business and the competition for these models is very high. I will try to attach a drawing to this particular rant to test out the effectiveness. The number of drawing I have are something like 35, the originals were 13 pages. In AutoCAD, I have 156 separate drawings which include all the specialized nuts and bolts--whoops, it's a bitmap, and is not alllowed. my eddress is [email protected], so if you wish, send me a line and I will start uploading them to you. There are 43 and some of them are missing a few dims, and maybe some are incorrect (tho' that is far less likely than having missing dims.)
 
Hi Guys,

These pictures might be of interest then...

Let me introduce you to Agnes !
View attachment 116216View attachment 116217View attachment 116218View attachment 116219View attachment 116220View attachment 116221View attachment 116222View attachment 116223View attachment 116224View attachment 116225

I have a lot more pictures if you want to see them. They were originally posted here but seem to have disappeared.
Agnes is absolutely BEAUTIFUL--wish I could have one in my backyard, or next to my bed on cold winter nites. Is the little greeny a baby Agnes?
 
Hi Richard, Guys,

No not next to your bed, you could easily bed down in the secondary cylinder. Agnes has two cylinders. That rope flywheel is over 20 feet in diameter. Its a very impressive piece of machinery when stood, even more so when she is in steam.

Some more pictures. Enjoy.

Agnes_Corlis-11.JPG
Agnes_Corlis-12.JPG
Agnes_Corlis-13.JPG
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That little green engine in one of the pictures is a part built model. As far as I'm aware it remains unfinished.
 
I recently acquired a very nice Corliss Model which I think is about 50 years old. It looks like it is a Coles' model as it matches the one on the cover of the catalog 22. I was hoping to get some information on this model such as when was it first offered? Is it a model of a known engine or an original of the Corliss type? Can you still get drawings as Coles appears to be out of business? What scale is this model? What era of Corliss engines does it best represent?

Hi,
I saw a completed one recently running, an absolute beautiful machine when built. I contacted the owner requesting more information and by return he sent me a scan of the full series that was featured in Live Steam magazine 1994 written by a James.S.Wolfe. This includes all the drawings which were later sold as a set with the castings. It is very much likely to be a Coles model, and as you say they are now out of business, from what I have heard of the castings they are top notch, and machine beautifully with few if any hard spots.
I am rather envious as a partial set was on ebay recently that I was watching, but it went beyond what I could get away with, with the missus, for some lumps of metal.


Regards
Jon
 
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Yes, I saw a partial set of castings too on ebay. The claim was that the castings were the minimum necessary to build the model. Well, I can build the model out of nearly any material but cast iron is the best material to build it with for several reasons--metal expansion rate, embedded carbon for friction, etc. etc. So I was a bit sceptical. It seemed to me to be a horribly out of line in the price, I didn't really pay much attention as I wasn't drooling over the castings. What I find curious is that you have 8 pdfs. The originals I have are 13 on "C" sized paper (I thimk). I would very much like to see those pdfs. Are they the AW Rays? my eddress is [email protected]. I have 45 "A" pages of those AW Rays that I redid in bitmap form.
 
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I am building this Coles Corliss and would not attempt it without the basic castings. In defense of the cost of castings, I know they seem expensive cause they are just pieces of iron, but in the scheme of things I think they are inline with similar components. The bottom line is there are very few operating foundries, none of which are interested in small runs, those that are quote prices that are out of reach. It takes a large investment for a large run, especially where the demand is questionable.
There are many parts to this engine and it is a real challenge for the novice machinist, even with the basic castings.
 
Hi Richard,

No as already said it was published in Live Steam magazine as a construction series. The one I know of was built entirely from the articles and the casting set and bar stock. It also gave some machining techniques and jigs that may be useful in the construction. E-mails have been sent your way.

I think it could be made from solid, but that base, and flywheel would be a heck of a job hogging it all out to the correct section profiles. The cylinder is easy as its just a rectangle lump. Flywheel would be a little tricky from solid but not impossible. The castings would be preferable to build this engine as its just so big.

Regards
Jon
 
That's all true. I don't know why the foundry went out of business, but I thimk it had to do with Americans are not like the British who have many hobbies. I thimk that there simply were not enough hobbyists 25 years ago to keep the Coles people in business. However, there is a well known axiom in Economics that says lower your price and you will make more $$. But that means that there has to be a demand base that will support it. If you have a demand of 100 pieces per year, that will not really be enough to support lowering your price--you'd need 100 WILLING to buy at a high price but you's also need 900 more willing to buy at a LOWER price in order to lower the price. Well now in 2020 there are more and more hobbiests wanting these castings. There is a foundry here in Moses Lake and they are willing to do small runs, but at that high price--they have to pay for all that work, workers, machines, etc. I just balk at prices for a few pieces of metal that cost more than a brand new 8 cylinder ICE engine. Anyway, I'm sorry Coles went out of business but that is the law of economics. I just wonder if Coles made too many mistakes of their own in creating those castings, for instance, if they made every casting separately when they could have made a long string of parts then cut them to length, including the cylinder, valves and many other parts.
 
Hi Richard,

No as already said it was published in Live Steam magazine as a construction series. The one I know of was built entirely from the articles and the casting set and bar stock. It also gave some machining techniques and jigs that may be useful in the construction. E-mails have been sent your way.

I think it could be made from solid, but that base, and flywheel would be a heck of a job hogging it all out to the correct section profiles. The cylinder is easy as its just a rectangle lump. Flywheel would be a little tricky from solid but not impossible. The castings would be preferable to build this engine as its just so big.

Regards
Jon
Absolutely, I agree. Imagine trying to do that crank bed without a casting. Certainly possible, even more certain I wouldn't want to do it. However, all those parts ARE possible to do without castings. I am looking into possibilities of making something without the crank bed, more on the order of simple steel slides without that elaborate bed.
 
I did have it explained to me what happened to the Coles company, I will find the message trail and update you when I know. I actually don't think it was to do with cost of castings, instead another factor was at play, but my memory here is a little fuzzy.

Regards
Jon
 
Yes, I saw a partial set of castings too on ebay. The claim was that the castings were the minimum necessary to build the model. Well, I can build the model out of nearly any material but cast iron is the best material to build it with for several reasons--metal expansion rate, embedded carbon for friction, etc. etc. So I was a bit sceptical. It seemed to me to be a horribly out of line in the price, I didn't really pay much attention as I wasn't drooling over the castings. What I find curious is that you have 8 pdfs. The originals I have are 13 on "C" sized paper (I thimk). I would very much like to see those pdfs. Are they the AW Rays? my eddress is [email protected]. I have 45 "A" pages of those AW Rays that I redid in bitmap form.
Dear Richard, I am looking for Cole's Corliss engine drawings. I expect to built one in reduced size. Unfortunately I have no Response from Cole's. Thanks in advance for your kind reply.
 
Its my understanding that Coles did a generational shift thing, it the original Coles guy handed the business off to the next generation.
Due to whatever reasons, Coles did not make it as a company, which is unfortunate. Does not really matter why; they are no longer in business.
They had a very large model engine offering, and some hard to find casting kits.

I have some Coles drawings for various engines, and they are not great by today's standards for drawings, but for back then they were pretty good I think, depending on which engine you had drawings for.
Sometimes it seems the drawings for a given engine were redrawn over time, and often improved by Coles.

No CAD back then; everything was hand-drawn.

Edit:
As far as the lack of castings available these days, I bypass that problem by making my own gray iron castings, using 3D printed patterns, from 3D models that I develope using photos.
I often hear that the technology needed to make your own iron castings in the backyard is beyond the cababilities of any hobby person, but I can say from experience that this is a false statement.

You may not save any money making your own iron castings, but it is certainly within the ability of many hobby folks to make their own iron castings, if someone has the desire to learn the iron melting/casting process. I have posted extensively here about how to do this.
We can make our own high-quality iron castings in a backyard setting, so the situation with Coles and others going out of business is not hopeless.

.
 
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Dear Richard, I am looking for Cole's Corliss engine drawings. I expect to built one in reduced size. Unfortunately I have no Response from Cole's. Thanks in advance for your kind reply.
I have drawings that I did up. However, they are pretty crappy as far as professional goes. Often I am missing details and dimensions. As I did the drawings for myself without thimpfking of other people. Usually, however, a dim can be measured off the paper and often the dims don't really matter. Cylinders, pistons, cranks, bearings and some other stuff matters and usually, those are properly dimmed.

I am happy to send you evereything I have.

I use AutoCAD if I need powerful program but I have found Alibre Atom works for most everything I need. I like it also because I can make pdfs so easily and they can be sent across the wires so easily. AutoCAD is a bear to dim but Alibre is very simple.

I have also consolidated some parts as I can not understand why they are in two parts. Namely the steam bonnet and the exhaust bonnet. Also the cylinder front and back heads I have consolidated the heads and a ring. I have also made several changes particularly where a simple change can effect a more laminar flow of steam and get rid of steam "bounce". I doubt that I even have any CAD drawings of the absolutely originals any more. The originals are known as Coles/Ray drawings or just Ray. A.W. Ray has a "copyright" on his dwgs of 1946. I doubt that they were actually copyrighted, but maybe.

I really like those drawings as they are a work of art, even tho' by today's standards they are absolute crap, not because they are crap, they really are art,. but rather because, the drawings are cramped and over dimensioned. I find up to 4 dims on the same item which just creates MORE cramp and confusion. However, the work is a great work in my not so humble opinion. If I have a problem, I have to refer to them.
 

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  • COLES CORLISS PPGS 1-8.pdf
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  • COLES CORLISS PPGS 9-16.pdf
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  • COLES CORLISS PPGS 17-20.pdf
    289.1 KB · Views: 16
  • COLES CORLISS PPGS 21-24.pdf
    277.8 KB · Views: 3
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