If anyone needs to borrow this tool....

Help Support HMEM:

substandard

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2009
Messages
65
Reaction score
4
I came across a unique tool yesterday at the local pawn shop, and to help pay back the forum members for all their help I thought it would be nice to loan the tool out to who ever may need it.

It is a quality Japanese made wood auger in 4/16" diameter. You know, when a 1/4" hole is just a bit to small, then you can use this 4/16" bit.

Just let me know if anyone needs to borrow it for a project ;D



 

chuck foster

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2007
Messages
704
Reaction score
0
i work in the semi tubular rivet business and they always use fractions like that for size and length.

example 10/64ths diameter x 28/64ths long (5/32 x 7/16) it is a crazy way to measure things but as far as i know all rivet manufactures use this system.
we had a box of rivets one time that were 16/64ths diameter x 84/64ths long (1/4 x 1 5/16).
i have never figured out why it is done this way but there must be a reason.
as far as your drill..............i would put it on ebay and sell it as a very rare drill worth hundreds of bucks you know like 25,000 cents :big:

thanks for showing us the drill.

chuck
 

mklotz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2007
Messages
3,039
Reaction score
18
One of the advantages of the metric system is the ability to compare sizes intuitively without the need to do the arithmetic required in the Inferial system. No thinking is required to know that a 4 mm drill is larger than a 3 mm. Deciding what the next size up from a 7/32 drill requires mental arithmetic beyond the comfort level of most people. Labeling drills in 64ths would make using them a lot easier. Of course, in a society that thinks labeling drills with abstract letters and numbers that have no relationship to size is a good idea, such simplification may be excessive.
 

rleete

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2008
Messages
603
Reaction score
10
mklotz said:
No thinking is required to know that a 4 mm drill is larger than a 3 mm.
So, what you're saying is that metric is for the simple minded?
 

pcw

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
117
Reaction score
3
rleete said:
So, what you're saying is that metric is for the simple minded?
well, it works for me :p

Pascal
 

substandard

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2009
Messages
65
Reaction score
4
mklotz said:
One of the advantages of the metric system is the ability to compare sizes intuitively without the need to do the arithmetic required in the Inferial system. No thinking is required to know that a 4 mm drill is larger than a 3 mm. Deciding what the next size up from a 7/32 drill requires mental arithmetic beyond the comfort level of most people. Labeling drills in 64ths would make using them a lot easier. Of course, in a society that thinks labeling drills with abstract letters and numbers that have no relationship to size is a good idea, such simplification may be excessive.
I had to learn the metric system in college, and you are absolutely correct.
 

shred

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2007
Messages
1,949
Reaction score
6
Somewhere I have a drill marked 12/32". I always thought that made a vague sort of sense, especially as part of a set. It's also a square-shank.
 

steamer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
5,405
Reaction score
27
rleete said:
So, what you're saying is that metric is for the simple minded?
That's not what Marv meant. He means that you don't need to worry about a denominator
that's all

I regularly use both systems and I agree

Dave
 

rleete

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2008
Messages
603
Reaction score
10
It was meant as a good natured poke at Marv. I'm sure he got it.
 

steamer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
5,405
Reaction score
27
Ahhhhhh gotcha....Marv's humor is well......Marv's ;D

Dave


 

mklotz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2007
Messages
3,039
Reaction score
18
rleete said:
It was meant as a good natured poke at Marv. I'm sure he got it.
I got it. I would have responded but I couldn't think of anything sufficiently simple-minded.
 

Troutsqueezer

Project of the Month Winner!!!
Project of the Month Winner
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
Messages
930
Reaction score
12
How come 10 gauge is bigger than 12 gauge? Isn't that backwards? And how come a mil is an imperial measurement and a millimeter is metric? mil should be short for millimeter but it's not. scratch.gif
 

mklotz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2007
Messages
3,039
Reaction score
18
Most of the gage numbers derive from how many times the material has been through the rolling/drawing mill. If it's only been through 10 times then naturally it will be bigger/thicker than if it's been rolled/drawn 12 times.

Perhaps "how many times it's been through the roller" is a useful and meaningful measure to folks who work in a rolling mill. The idiocy arises when shop floor shortcuts like this escape the factory and become a part of the measurement system - as has been the case with the Inferial system.

[Oh, and just to make things more convoluted, music wire gets thicker with increasing gage number. If we're talking shotgun gauge, it's how many balls are required to weigh a pound - ten gauge balls are bigger than 12 so it takes fewer to make a pound.]

A rational nomenclature should have the following characteristics...

1. Open-ended at both ends so as smaller or larger sizes are needed they can be fit into the existing nomenclature. (Compare with our designation for batteries (AA, AAA, AAAA), drills (A-Z), and screws (0, 00, 000, 0000).)

2. Small numbers should denote small items and large numbers large items. (Numbered drills, wire gages, etc. are counter-examples).

3. The nomenclature should *directly* convey information about the size. (Quick, what's the diameter of a #0000-160 screw?)

If the think about it, about the only system that satisfies these requirements is to label things by their size - which is precisely what is done in the metric system.

 

MachineTom

Senior Member
HMEM Supporter
Joined
Oct 20, 2010
Messages
901
Reaction score
124
Metric often makes sense, but then again. If you were making some small engine parts they might be 125mm long x 70 x 50 as a machinist. But Hans the carpenter would think they are 1.25cm x .7cm x .5cm but every metric measure I see is marked in mm, so the mark for 1.25 cm is a 10 and a 2 then count 5 lines, so its not that simple. Or he thinks its a box 125cm x 70cm x 50cm. Now setting up type sizes in 1/6, 1/8, 1/10, 1/12 of an inch thats a pita.
 

Troutsqueezer

Project of the Month Winner!!!
Project of the Month Winner
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
Messages
930
Reaction score
12
I've learned a few things today, including how to spell "gage". I'm not even going to ask why wood plank thicknesses are specified in quarter inch increments, for example: 1.25" thickness is spec'd as 5/4.


 

Peter.

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2010
Messages
107
Reaction score
0
substandard said:
I had to learn the metric system in college, and you are absolutely correct.
I learned it way before college - mother nature outfitted me with the standard number of fingers.
 

terryd

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
58
Reaction score
13
MachineTom said:
Metric often makes sense, but then again. If you were making some small engine parts they might be 125mm long x 70 x 50 as a machinist. But Hans the carpenter would think they are 1.25cm x .7cm x .5cm but every metric measure I see is marked in mm, so the mark for 1.25 cm is a 10 and a 2 then count 5 lines, so its not that simple. Or he thinks its a box 125cm x 70cm x 50cm. Now setting up type sizes in 1/6, 1/8, 1/10, 1/12 of an inch thats a pita.
There is no such thing as a centimetre in the international ISO metric system, why it is still talked about I really don't know, and a mil is short for a millimetre just about everywhere else on the Planet. As a Brit, I find the complications of the US so called imperial system mind boggling. One system for screw sizes, one for wood thickness and what on earth is a five penny nail and as for volumetric measures, forget it. How you citizens of the USA cope I really don't know. I've heard that we are two nations separated by a common language but the imperial system???

A very Happy and successful New Year to all (I think that is clear enough),

Terry
 

shred

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2007
Messages
1,949
Reaction score
6
terryd said:
. As a Brit, I find the complications of the US so called imperial system mind boggling. One system for screw sizes, one for wood thickness and what on earth is a five penny nail and as for volumetric measures, forget it. How you citizens of the USA cope I really don't know.
I'd venture to guess that foreign-language speakers say the same thing about the English language :D

I suspect there's a cultural/psychological reason we randomly make up units, measures and verb tenses, even in face of better systems.

 

ShopShoe

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
972
Reaction score
188
I have lived in different parts of the world and worked on stuff made anywhere. I have no problem with using the different systems ----- Just don't tell me that the 8mm bolt is 1/4-20 when it's 8mm.

FYI, mil for one thousand is from mille which is from Latin and French roots: Does the purchase order mean they want 1,000 or 1,000,000? I want 300 thousand: one-half of the people I have dealt with want me to spec 300K and the other half want me to spec 300M. (great when abbreviations must be used by another policy: "...this is unacceptable because you wrote it out.")

Is it still better to be a British billionaire than an American one?

I used to work in a print shop and and we had to use picas, agates, lines, and points. Try getting in the middle of a discussion about scaling metric art to print on an old US press and measuring it all with a pica rule.

Regarding the original post: I was taught that the sizing of auger bits was incremented only by 16ths of an inch: Many I have only bear a single number, like "9" (9/16). this was probably adequate for woodworking with hand brace and bit. (And I learned this so long ago that I was taught how to sharpen them with a special file: "And be sure to touch up the screw point so it will be pulled into the work.")
 
2

Latest posts

Top