HSS Lathe Tool Shapes and Angles

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Richard Hed

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Several good replies above. I would add that anything you read in any book should be considered a place to start, from which you make adjustments to suit your context - machine, material, cutting tool, etc. I will say that I normally position my cutting tools on center, not above - this is on a well-worn Cincinnati TrayTop 12.5 x 30 lathe - a much heavier and more rigid lathe than the typical 9" Southbend, though the amount of wear can be a factor for both. The exception is my parting blade - I use a parting blade with a u-shaped top (which curls up the chip to allow better clearance). The trick with this type of blade is that the bottom of the U needs to be more or less on center, which means the top of the legs of the U will be above center.
Notice that when some book recommends placing the blade ABOVE the center line, it is alwyas the old rocker style tool holder. I got rid of mine 30 years ago. I notice in the Philippines those rockers are still being used and still for sale.
 

Wheat47

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Hello I am a new machinist could anyone help with angels and shapes that I should grind HSS tools to. I have a couple of tables that inform me of possible angles. would be glad of confirmation on these and any help on the shapes of basic required tooling
View attachment 142269
MT
Hammez
Some time ago, I found/copied/made a small gauge made from sheet metal that has most of the common angles used in machining steel.
Go to e-bay and look up "lathe bit gauge" or google "Southbend lathe bit gauge" and several of them will show up. It's a very simple gauge and easy to use. I suppose you could alter the angles to suit your needs.
It has been a very helpful gauge for me.
Jon
 

hammez

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Notice that when some book recommends placing the blade ABOVE the center line, it is alwyas the old rocker style tool holder. I got rid of mine 30 years ago. I notice in the Philippines those rockers are still being used and still for sale.
Talking of tool holders does anyone know what quick change tool posts fit a Churchill Cub mk3?

Hammez
 

hammez

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Can you send a photo of the mounting? Almost always you can make something if it does not fit right off. Is the mounting a slot? or a circle? or maybe even smaller T-slots.
Sorry it has take so long.
Life happened.
I have included a side (ish) and top view of the mounting.
Hope it helps.

Hammez
 

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FWIW, from a friend's estate, I still have an ammo can of aluminum holders he made for holding 3/16 and 1/4" HSS bits for sharpening. He targeted these at the wood turning community but I don't see why they won't work for metal working also - I haven't posted them in the FS section because I'm not sure it's worth the cost of international shipping - if you have a mill you can make your own. pictures below.

for the smaller lathes, and HSS bits, I think you would we well served by looking for original or reprints of manuals and books that predate WWII, maybe even WWI, when lathes were less sophisticated and machining was manual. Machinery's Handbook is convenient from time to time, but there are tons of books on machine shop practice and training.

here is one manual that I scanned before selling, if you read it all (from cover to cover) you will be a lot smarter about these things - read about using the tools you don't have as well as what you do have, it will all add to your knowlege base Machine Shop Operations 1943 <<< it's a 51 meg file, if someone (a moderator?) wants to copy it across the pond and host it for the members, you have my permission - it's long out of copyright

we don't learn how to do the basics, and this course will get you started on the right track.
 

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now that I have time to look carefully at the mounting, you have half of a 4-way tool holder there. you cannot install a typicla Aloris style holder onto that. Can you get more photos of it and how exactly that part with the thread is attached to the lathe compound? If it goes into a T-slot, then you can remove it and install a different holder, if it does not, then you need to take some accurate measurements, you are looking to make a Crozier type tool holder. I think I have a few left but they are WAAAAAY to big for that lathe. the 4-way tool posts generally look like this Enco 2-1/2" Square 4 Way Turret Tool Post Holder for Atlas South Bend Lathe | eBay so you can make the missing parts. with more photos of the details around that cylinder maybe it will all become clear, but I'm pretty sure that is not part of a Aloris style tool post.
 
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William Noble is right. Today's machining data like feeds, speeds and tool angles are for today's very stiff high speed CNC Machinetools. It is best to look at the machining data from the period wherein your lathe or mill originated, which includes the basic design of many Asian machines for the hobby-market as they are a copy of just pre-war or just post-war Western machinetool design. As I have a Schaublin 102 VM and an Aciera F3 I myself adhere to data in the trade school books I got during my courses 1958 - 1960. On top of that I use a copy of the Machinist's Sliding Chart as used during the 1970's in the Machine Factories of Philips (similar to the machine factory of GE-LEO).
Machinist's chart front.JPG
 

hammez

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now that I have time to look carefully at the mounting, you have half of a 4-way tool holder there. you cannot install a typicla Aloris style holder onto that. Can you get more photos of it and how exactly that part with the thread is attached to the lathe compound? If it goes into a T-slot, then you can remove it and install a different holder, if it does not, then you need to take some accurate measurements, you are looking to make a Crozier type tool holder. I think I have a few left but they are WAAAAAY to big for that lathe. the 4-way tool posts generally look like this Enco 2-1/2" Square 4 Way Turret Tool Post Holder for Atlas South Bend Lathe | eBay so you can make the missing parts. with more photos of the details around that cylinder maybe it will all become clear, but I'm pretty sure that is not part of a Aloris style tool post.
I have attached the additional images
 

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Richard Hed

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Of course that tool post will come out. You need to measure the threads, pitch and diameter, then you know what you can make to go into the threaded hole. Then the post must be made to accept the Aloris type tool post. Easy peasy.
 

hammez

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Of course that tool post will come out. You need to measure the threads, pitch and diameter, then you know what you can make to go into the threaded hole. Then the post must be made to accept the Aloris type tool post. Easy peasy.
I was just thinking is it possible to adapt a qc tool post to fit on that particular mounting?
 

hammez

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I was just thinking is it possible to adapt a qc tool post to fit on that particular mounting?
I was thinking along the lines of a multi fix tool post.
Similar to the one on this link
 

Bentwings

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I YHINK the alloris is the best you can get tool holders anywhere and just set up half a dozen common ones you use all the time thevtoolnheightbiscessilyvadjustsble and once set It remains same within reason . Easily adjustable height and you can reposition at will .
 

hammez

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I YHINK the alloris is the best you can get tool holders anywhere and just set up half a dozen common ones you use all the time thevtoolnheightbiscessilyvadjustsble and once set It remains same within reason . Easily adjustable height and you can reposition at will .
Ok.
Thanks for filling in the gap in my knowledge 👍
 

Richard Hed

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I was just thinking is it possible to adapt a qc tool post to fit on that particular mounting?
I wouldn't hesitate. Can you tell me the diameter of the Aloris post? What is the diameter of your post in the photos? If it doesn't fit, you can make one. Very easy job if you know how to thread. If you don't know how to thread, it's time to learn.

I found threading rather intimidating but after doing a few, it became just another machining operation. However, one needs to be a little more cautious in cutting threads as there are more things that can go wrong particularly you can get the wrong threads going. always make a test mark with a pen or a .001 deep test cut to be sure you have the right pitch. Mess it up? Start again, it's not really that difficult.
 

Richard Hed

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Personally, being retard and a cheapskate, I can't afford and wouldn't pay that kind of price. You can find much cheaper ones that do a great job on Sharz or Grizz or other cheapo places, but yes, that type are the good ones.

Be careful when you buy this style, however, in that there are several sizes: AXA, BXA, CXA and maybe others. These letters (the first letter A, B, C) indicate the size. (THis took me for ever to find out what those mean). Essentially, the A size is for small machines and certainly not suitable for taking large cuts. The B is medium sized machines and quite suitable for large cuts. The C is for large machines and suitable for huge cuts.

So if you buy a "B" size, all your tool holders have to be "B" size. You can also make some, they aren't too difficult. The 60deg. inside bevel being the most difficult and care has to be taken to get them spaced correctly. There is also a trick for making them where you don't need to be quite so careful.
 

hammez

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I wouldn't hesitate. Can you tell me the diameter of the Aloris post? What is the diameter of your post in the photos? If it doesn't fit, you can make one. Very easy job if you know how to thread. If you don't know how to thread, it's time to learn.

I found threading rather intimidating but after doing a few, it became just another machining operation. However, one needs to be a little more cautious in cutting threads as there are more things that can go wrong particularly you can get the wrong threads going. always make a test mark with a pen or a .001 deep test cut to be sure you have the right pitch. Mess it up? Start again, it's not really that difficult.
The aloris BXA (I think that is the one I need for my lathe swing) is a 5/8" diameter hole.
 

hammez

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Personally, being retard and a cheapskate, I can't afford and wouldn't pay that kind of price. You can find much cheaper ones that do a great job on Sharz or Grizz or other cheapo places, but yes, that type are the good ones.

Be careful when you buy this style, however, in that there are several sizes: AXA, BXA, CXA and maybe others. These letters (the first letter A, B, C) indicate the size. (THis took me for ever to find out what those mean). Essentially, the A size is for small machines and certainly not suitable for taking large cuts. The B is medium sized machines and quite suitable for large cuts. The C is for large machines and suitable for huge cuts.

So if you buy a "B" size, all your tool holders have to be "B" size. You can also make some, they aren't too difficult. The 60deg. inside bevel being the most difficult and care has to be taken to get them spaced correctly. There is also a trick for making them where you don't need to be quite so careful.
I agree with your reasoning of making them. Because I am the definition of a cheapskate
 

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