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Maryak
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I was trained in the navy's apprentice school. The beauty of this was you got to see many expert machinists approach to the same job. You could then pick the one with which you felt most comfortable to get your project up and running. You were not tied to one persons way of thinking. (Still managed to pick up my share of bad habits without any outside encouragement).
Best Regards
Bob
Best Regards
Bob
Cedge
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Bob
In days gone by, I found myself charged with a project that require a process that I knew just enough about to be dangerous. I knew I was out of my element, things were looking pretty insurmountable and I was a bit overwhelmed at the prospect of failing.
An old friend, a former USAF Chief Master Sargent, and I were having a drink and I mentioned my problem. The old guy rocked back in his chair and looked at me for a moment and asked me point blank if I'd learned ANYTHING from my time in service.
He then suggested that I go down on the shop floor and figure out who would be doing the job... not his foreman... the actual guy on the job and ask his advice. His explanation was that the guy on the floor isn't going to work any harder than required and will find the easy way to get the job done with a minimum of effort.
I took his advice and after a couple of trips to the floor, I had a perfectly workable solution which was submitted and accepted, along with a notation of thanks to the guy who generously shared a few of his secrets with a young buck. I used that technique the rest of my working career and never failed to acknowledge where the real solutions came from.
In the process I learned something else. Not once did any of the solutions match my first idea of how it should be done. There were times that my ideas were adopted by an old timer or two, but they all gave me more than they got. That was where I learned "cat skinning" is not a one size fits all process. For every job there can be any number of "right ways" and I'm not particularly likely to know any of them, until I ask.
I'm almost immediately turned off by experts who claim to know the "only true path". Give me the guy with grease on his sandwich and under his nails.... and a bit of country born common sense on his lips.
Steve
In days gone by, I found myself charged with a project that require a process that I knew just enough about to be dangerous. I knew I was out of my element, things were looking pretty insurmountable and I was a bit overwhelmed at the prospect of failing.
An old friend, a former USAF Chief Master Sargent, and I were having a drink and I mentioned my problem. The old guy rocked back in his chair and looked at me for a moment and asked me point blank if I'd learned ANYTHING from my time in service.
He then suggested that I go down on the shop floor and figure out who would be doing the job... not his foreman... the actual guy on the job and ask his advice. His explanation was that the guy on the floor isn't going to work any harder than required and will find the easy way to get the job done with a minimum of effort.
I took his advice and after a couple of trips to the floor, I had a perfectly workable solution which was submitted and accepted, along with a notation of thanks to the guy who generously shared a few of his secrets with a young buck. I used that technique the rest of my working career and never failed to acknowledge where the real solutions came from.
In the process I learned something else. Not once did any of the solutions match my first idea of how it should be done. There were times that my ideas were adopted by an old timer or two, but they all gave me more than they got. That was where I learned "cat skinning" is not a one size fits all process. For every job there can be any number of "right ways" and I'm not particularly likely to know any of them, until I ask.
I'm almost immediately turned off by experts who claim to know the "only true path". Give me the guy with grease on his sandwich and under his nails.... and a bit of country born common sense on his lips.
Steve
Maryak
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Right on Steve, a bit of advise from the grass roots goes a long way towards success.
In any project we don't appreciate how much of the success is due to the person on the job until they are not there.
In our shops we are pretty much on our own, designer, project planner, project manager and person on the job.
Threads such as this one, I feel, help us all to achieve our goals and its thanks to artrans for asking the question in the first place.
Best Regards
Bob
In any project we don't appreciate how much of the success is due to the person on the job until they are not there.
In our shops we are pretty much on our own, designer, project planner, project manager and person on the job.
Threads such as this one, I feel, help us all to achieve our goals and its thanks to artrans for asking the question in the first place.
Best Regards
Bob
Divided He ad
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- Joined
- Mar 21, 2008
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Hi Guys ;D
I know I've not been posting much recently.... But I feel I can contribute a little to this... From the looks of it I'll be told if I don't! :big:
I have just embarked on the design and build of a batch of four little horizontal finger engines 75x50mm base size. (yer I know, over done to death. That's why no thread.)
Now, I've been doing a great deal of planning... Drawing using my early monotone Crap o cad II and that is really crap o!
Running through the ways of making the crank, con rod, treadle etc. And I was struggling to envision it all.
So I did exactly as Marv said. Wrote out a list of what to do first. I added dimensions to the ends of each item written and then armed with my drawings and a little plan I hit the shop.
This is where the next bit took place.... Holding and creating what I had in 3D in my head and 2d in front of me!!!
I've adopted some of the 'Bogstandard' ways of multi-machining parts of the exact size.... So happy I read and retained much of those posts
I have also had to figure ways of getting parts to exact length, 8x35mm and 8x20mm round bronze uprights.... With a 5" 3 jaw chuck!
I figured it out after about ten min's... But without having myself stood at my lathe doing the work I would never have had the idea.
I've got a long way to go, I have yet to figure out the way to get all my parts to the exact same size.... I am challenging myself to get 4x identical (except the flywheels ) finger engines.... Why four... Well it sounded good at the time!
I am still trying to incorporate my 'artsy fartsy' approach (As it has been called before).... I know I am not a trained machinist... That's obvious... I struggle to get repetitive accuracy. Hence my self challenge.
So what I am saying is that I have tried and Incorporated many of your systems all on my own... Mainly due to reading how many of you (who have posted here) and others have done it on the site.
Artrans,
This is the site that pushed me to finish my first and second project engines, Boggie sent me an invite via youtube after I left him a message saying I could never seem to finish an engine based project.
I read every post I could, learned how others did it. Then went head first into designing my own vertical finger/treadle engine after seeing a video of one.... I Had no plans and no idea... But did I ever learn a thing of two on that build!!
Once I posted a picture I couldn't leave a project unfinished... I'd have been ashamed to.... So many eyes watching, so much encouragement... It as a newbie really pushed me along to know people were wanting me to finish because they wanted to see it running too.
Then I tried plans.... Couldn't get the accuracy required, So made things to fit (As Marv said ' make to fit') Cylinder first, made the piston a fair bit later, but it was altered to fit the bore.
My order was a little erratic... But I made a bit I was comfortable with... When I felt like a challenge I took on the rotary valve or crank web. When I wanted to just make something so I felt good... The base or the arbours to hold the flywheel etc.
I often pause on a part while trying to envision what I am trying to get from that block/bar in front of me....sometimes 5 min's... or sometimes even days! I figure I'm not alone in that one?
So basically, read all you can,(use this huge mine of info!) stay safe, enjoy yourself and good luck ;D
Ralph.
I know I've not been posting much recently.... But I feel I can contribute a little to this... From the looks of it I'll be told if I don't! :big:
I have just embarked on the design and build of a batch of four little horizontal finger engines 75x50mm base size. (yer I know, over done to death. That's why no thread.)
Now, I've been doing a great deal of planning... Drawing using my early monotone Crap o cad II and that is really crap o!
Running through the ways of making the crank, con rod, treadle etc. And I was struggling to envision it all.
So I did exactly as Marv said. Wrote out a list of what to do first. I added dimensions to the ends of each item written and then armed with my drawings and a little plan I hit the shop.
This is where the next bit took place.... Holding and creating what I had in 3D in my head and 2d in front of me!!!
I've adopted some of the 'Bogstandard' ways of multi-machining parts of the exact size.... So happy I read and retained much of those posts
I have also had to figure ways of getting parts to exact length, 8x35mm and 8x20mm round bronze uprights.... With a 5" 3 jaw chuck!
I figured it out after about ten min's... But without having myself stood at my lathe doing the work I would never have had the idea.
I've got a long way to go, I have yet to figure out the way to get all my parts to the exact same size.... I am challenging myself to get 4x identical (except the flywheels
) finger engines.... Why four... Well it sounded good at the time! I am still trying to incorporate my 'artsy fartsy' approach (As it has been called before).... I know I am not a trained machinist... That's obvious... I struggle to get repetitive accuracy. Hence my self challenge.
So what I am saying is that I have tried and Incorporated many of your systems all on my own... Mainly due to reading how many of you (who have posted here) and others have done it on the site.
Artrans,
This is the site that pushed me to finish my first and second project engines, Boggie sent me an invite via youtube after I left him a message saying I could never seem to finish an engine based project.
I read every post I could, learned how others did it. Then went head first into designing my own vertical finger/treadle engine after seeing a video of one.... I Had no plans and no idea... But did I ever learn a thing of two on that build!!
Once I posted a picture I couldn't leave a project unfinished... I'd have been ashamed to.... So many eyes watching, so much encouragement... It as a newbie really pushed me along to know people were wanting me to finish because they wanted to see it running too.
Then I tried plans.... Couldn't get the accuracy required, So made things to fit (As Marv said ' make to fit') Cylinder first, made the piston a fair bit later, but it was altered to fit the bore.
My order was a little erratic... But I made a bit I was comfortable with... When I felt like a challenge I took on the rotary valve or crank web. When I wanted to just make something so I felt good... The base or the arbours to hold the flywheel etc.
I often pause on a part while trying to envision what I am trying to get from that block/bar in front of me....sometimes 5 min's... or sometimes even days! I figure I'm not alone in that one?
So basically, read all you can,(use this huge mine of info!) stay safe, enjoy yourself and good luck ;D
Ralph.
B
baldrocker
Guest
First thing guys a round of applause for Mrs F :bow:
As a total newbie the only thing I can offer to those of us
who have difficulty reading plans (and I have some very clear
and well laid out ones from a member of HMEM)
is,
Go to your local print shop etc and get the plans ENLARGED
Its amazing how things seem to explain themselves when you can
read them easily. Remember how big blueprints used to be?
BR
As a total newbie the only thing I can offer to those of us
who have difficulty reading plans (and I have some very clear
and well laid out ones from a member of HMEM)
is,
Go to your local print shop etc and get the plans ENLARGED
Its amazing how things seem to explain themselves when you can
read them easily. Remember how big blueprints used to be?
BR
Absolutely.. great tip. I scan plans in and print the section I want double or 3x size to take out to the shop all the time. It's pretty easy with a computer and scanner, but even a good digital camera can make a great copier/enlarger.baldrocker said:
Plans? Enlarge what? I don't possess any. Everything I build is from scratch with a very bare minimum of planning just ask my mate Firebird. He will tell you I think of something and just start from what I think is the logical point and work from there. All parts are "made-to-fit" as it progresses. I enjoy the fact that whatever I build "evolves" from nothing. So far so good. Yes I have plenty of bits in the scrap but they evolve into something else eventually. Yes I am always safe in what I build and how I build it. My attitude is just "Go for it". Some significant reasoning for this is that I like the individual and unique nature of what I build and it is never the same as someone elses but the biggest reason is I am crap at using other peoples plans and dimensions...I always want to change them to suit so best to use my own.
Regards
Julian.
Regards
Julian.
B
baldrocker
Guest
Julian
Yes I agree totally with your guesstimation approach, combine it with
my love of recycling scrap and almost total inability to measure accurately,
anything is fun and a challenge and even more
gratifying when some thing I've made actually works. ???
plan is just as much a skill as turning a part to a poofteenth of an inch and in MY
case should be learned.
Horses for courses mate
BR
Yes I agree totally with your guesstimation approach, combine it with
my love of recycling scrap and almost total inability to measure accurately,
anything is fun and a challenge and even more
gratifying when some thing I've made actually works. ???
As am I, that is why as a total newcomer to machining I discovered working to
plan is just as much a skill as turning a part to a poofteenth of an inch and in MY
case should be learned.
Horses for courses mate
BR
Julian, BR, I agree with both of you. I am a complete novice (my lathe and mill are still in their boxes awaiting some time away from house renovations - did some lathing 30 odd years ago at school and more recently read a lot of books) and as such I intend to bite off far more than I can chew. I have been studying the plans for John V Thompson's Scorpion V8, and have a myriad of changes I want to make but I feel that if I follow the plan and shop notes exactly I will learn how to be accurate and gain an understanding of why he wanted something done a certain way. Knowing me, my build will fall somewhere in between and will therefore not run (or break on first firing). But I'll do it over with what I learned the first time...
