High Speed Steam Engine

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windy

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ericohara
Thank you for the comment on the sprint bike you don't always need all the bells and whistles to do well the main thing to me is enjoy what you are doing.
My flash steam engine is not that different than the Westbury Sparton.
Bob Kirtley who was the incentive for me to have a go his engine looks like an updated Sparton.
Some of the early flash steamers had to me very complicated valve gear the poppet valve and uniflow exhaust are simple to make.
Don't be worried about making your first engine it's a very interesting learning curve.
I am not an engineer but enjoy machining and always willing to learn despite being 79.
Look at other interests and sometimes you can find useful things for your projects.
Don't be blinkered.
A few pictures of my 2000 engine later on did my drawings with cad.
Westbury flash steam booklet and the Sparton .
 

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ericohara

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Ah, Windy, your drawings are so helpful and I have just recently got hold of the Westbury book where the Sparton caught my eye. Now I have something to begin work on... Brilliant!
Thank you very much..
Eric..
 

ericohara

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An excellent engine is this one from Brian Rupnow: He sells his plans
1" Bore x 1" Stroke Vertical i.c. Engine
K2
, thank you for your reply, this looks like a really nice engine, I will study more..
I am sorry, I should have made it clear in my post, I meant a little single cylinder steam engine in the spirit of the early 1900s flash steam hydroplane period.
Thank you for your help though
 

windy

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Ah, Windy, your drawings are so helpful and I have just recently got hold of the Westbury book where the Sparton caught my eye. Now I have something to begin work on... Brilliant!
Thank you very much..
Eric..
If you require my cad drawing will gladly let you have them might have to post them as so much also burners generator, pumps and hull.
Things were altered on them when I started munching metal
 

ericohara

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If you require my cad drawing will gladly let you have them might have to post them as so much also burners generator, pumps and hull.
Things were altered on them when I started munching metal
Hello Windy,
That is a very kind offer, I would very much like to see them, but I don't want to trouble you and I would not like to risk you sending any original drawings.
I will make a start with the engine drawing / sketch that you sent to me and then if you didn't mind my progressively asking for help or information perhaps that would be better and safer than sending the drawings to me. Initially, I would like to make a little used and under stressed early hydro with your engine and a small steam generator.
As you say, I can see that it will become addictive and I will want to make something a little quicker, especially as I step back a little from my work and hopefully have more free time in the coming years.
With many thanks.
Eric..
 

windy

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Hello Windy,
That is a very kind offer, I would very much like to see them, but I don't want to trouble you and I would not like to risk you sending any original drawings.
I will make a start with the engine drawing / sketch that you sent to me and then if you didn't mind my progressively asking for help or information perhaps that would be better and safer than sending the drawings to me. Initially, I would like to make a little used and under stressed early hydro with your engine and a small steam generator.
As you say, I can see that it will become addictive and I will want to make something a little quicker, especially as I step back a little from my work and hopefully have more free time in the coming years.
With many thanks.
Eric..
Eric
I don't mind could send stuff on a dvd disc only problem to open the drawings might be a problem if you don't have a suitable CAD program.
Message me if you require settings etc. or any advice.
As Westbury states that design of engine needs a lot of pressure to overcome CR.
My full size version have had to retard inlet valve and use a head pressure release to be able to run on compressed air.
I need at least 300psi and a lot of it to run on air with my correct valve timing.
Keep it all simple you can if not careful come up with thinking using variable valve timing and other ideas and the engine does not get built.

Windy
 

ericohara

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Eric
I don't mind could send stuff on a dvd disc only problem to open the drawings might be a problem if you don't have a suitable CAD program.
Message me if you require settings etc. or any advice.
As Westbury states that design of engine needs a lot of pressure to overcome CR.
My full size version have had to retard inlet valve and use a head pressure release to be able to run on compressed air.
I need at least 300psi and a lot of it to run on air with my correct valve timing.
Keep it all simple you can if not careful come up with thinking using variable valve timing and other ideas and the engine does not get built.

Windy
Thank you so much Windy, this is brilliant.
I had not thought about the CR, had completely overlooked this and have just re read Edgar Westbury's remarks on this, thank you for pointing it out. If I make a version of your sketch, do you have an approx idea of a CR I should aim for, considering this is an engine to represent the early period of hydroplanes and a early style single burner steam generator?.
I am not sure how to private message on this forum, perhaps I have to become a full member? I should be able to handle files as we have several CAD programs including Autocad. I will of course pay any costs you incur.
With very best wishes.
Eric..
 
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lohring

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Below are a series of articles on Bob Kirtley's flash steam hydro; the precursor to Paul's hydro.

Lohring Miller

Pisces-1.jpgPisces-2.jpgPisces-3.jpgPisces-4.jpgPisces-4a.jpgPisces-5.jpgPisces-6.jpgPisces-7.jpgPisces-8.jpgPisces-9.jpg
 

windy

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Lohring, these are perfect, thank you very much!
A good series of articles for starters I updated the crankshaft to two piece instead of three.
Bob had crank breakages it did not like a lot of jumping on the water.
I have a few tips to stop breakages on cranks of similar design.
Have been there and know reasons on my few breakages of overhung cranks.
A few pictures of a breakage on an experimental crank designed to make cam setting easy another disaster would have been ok if crank had been supported on big end side.
I started on a V twin to power a model flash steam car as could have run at Elvington full size speed meetings using the hydro top ends.
To run at flash steam hydro meetings keeping the weight within the required limits can be a slog.
When I ended with a reasonable reliable design I made many spare parts like pistons, rings, con rod assemblies, cylinder liners etc. so could do rebuilds at a meeting if disaster struck.
My motto never give up have rebuilt the hydro despite going up in flames or crashing its all fun of experimental engineering.
Keeps the brain cells active a bit like sprinting when after that fraction of a second.
 

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ericohara

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They are great pictures, I can imagine it is an enormously destructive environment. The V twin looks very elegant, it is nice to see the close up detail of the ports and the way you secure the cylinders. I am like a sponge at the moment, soaking up all the info I can gather. Lohring's Pisces articles were a great help too. Thank you for the details.
Looking quite a way into the future, would you recommend a lesser class to start with (following my making of an early period flash steam hydro recreation that I am just beginning). Am I right in thinking there is a class B which is less weight and a little more manageable?
B W.
Eric..
 
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windy

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They are great pictures, I can imagine it is an enormously destructive environment. The V twin looks very elegant, it is nice to see the close up detail of the ports and the way you secure the cylinders. I am like a sponge at the moment, soaking up all the info I can gather. Lohring's Pisces articles were a great help too. Thank you for the details.
Looking quite a way into the future, would you recommend a lesser class to start with (following my making of an early period flash steam hydro recreation that I am just beginning). Am I right in thinking there is a class B which is less weight and a little more manageable?
B W.
Eric..
You will have the same amount of work if you build A or B class FS a B class will be difficult to keep the weight down.
Jump in and build the A class unless you are fortunate you will start at low speeds learning as you improve things.
I have a video of my first attempts at Hull East Park and another with another old codger testing his steamer at my home.
That one was like Last of the Summer Wine the other chap raced homemade successful hill climb 3 wheelers.
 

windy

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This video was my second year with the Flash Steamer my main problem was the launch.
My first attrmpts were in 1993 and after many DNR did 63.64mph
The Hull course was 100yds a lap Kingsbury is 100metre a lap

 

windy

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Here it is Last of the Summer Wine flash steam model hydroplane version.
We both left a mark on our earlier full size speed attempts Fred and his Son were successful at 3 wheeler hill climbs.
A 30min video of two happy bunnies a few tips there for Eric
 
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ericohara

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This is such a nice video. As well as an education, it really makes me smile. How yours and Freds live are enriched by this work :) I was amazed at the steam feed pipe glowing. There are so many pointers for me to think about.
When was this video made Windy?
 

windy

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This is such a nice video. As well as an education, it really makes me smile. How yours and Freds live are enriched by this work :) I was amazed at the steam feed pipe glowing. There are so many pointers for me to think about.
When was this video made Windy?
It was about 2017 the steam line was shrouded on mine and Bobs.
I have a photo about what happens when using a steam inlet manifold of wrong material and boat takes off on full power and dunks.
Another of my test session on De Laval nozzles for a steam turbine might just see the red heat at the manifold.
 

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ericohara

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Wow, I would have been guilty and thought nothing of using EN8. Is the embrittlement due to the heat cycles alone or do you think it is due to the sudden quench of entering the water? Please excuse me if I made a nonsense statement!
 

windy

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Wow, I would have been guilty and thought nothing of using EN8. Is the embrittlement due to the heat cycles alone or do you think it is due to the sudden quench of entering the water? Please excuse me if I made a nonsense statement!
You are right the sudden quench I had used en8 for years but had nether had such a high speed dunk.
Manifold needs to be tough due to being dismantled often I used to heat my stainless pipe nut then tightened very hard.
All future manifolds were made of en36
 
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