Help ID Aluminium grades

[jack404]

Got my delivery from George ( OffcutsGalore on OZtion.com.au)

i did something unusual i bought some unknown grades this time

for what i bought them for its ok but i do make Blackpowder rifles and so grades are important

how do i tell grades in Aluminium at home ??

is there a way??

or do i head off to Atlas again ??

my latest shopping

cheers

jack

 

[MadKad]

That is a good question, are they not the grade numbers written on them? just after the sizes?

if not, then unless you have like a sience kit for doing the testing I dont think there is a way, I could be wrong though.

When grades are made, they add different stuff in like different metals, then strenth tests are done etc to make sure its the correct grade (I think lol)

 

[jack404]

MadKad yes most are marked 6061 and 2011 are what u generally use

but the peices with the arrows below are the odd ones out,

the main use for these really does not matter but i like to be able to reuse as much as i can and most things i use bits on need to know the grade

its a first for me to not buy a known item, if i dont know for sure i generally dont buy it

this time the grade did not matter but i am thinking for later

cheers

jack

 

[Majorstrain]

Interesting question Jack.

I get some aluminum from a scrap merchant from time to time this side of the black stump and have wondered the same thing.
After a quick www search I found some interesting info, though not complete.

The reagent test will give you a best guess of the series of Aluminum alloy i.e. 1000, 2000, 5000, 6000 etc. but that is the best you can hope for. Also if you do a google search for the kits you will find they cost a lot more than a single spectral analysis ($75) whether it be XRF, SES, or some other method.

As others have noted, the only way to determine the specific aluminum or alloy composition is by chemical analysis.

However, if you just want to know the approximate alloy composition, there are inexpensive, non-destructive chemical spot tests that can be used to detect the presence (or absence) of specific alloying elements such as silicon, copper, manganese, magnesium, chromium, nickel and zinc. The procedures are described in ASM Metals Handbook, "Non-Destructive Inspection and Quality Control".

The procedures typically involve the application of a drop of sodium hydroxide solution (or other acid, depending on the element) onto the clean metal surface and observing the color change following a defined reaction time; usually 2 - 5 minutes.

If it's good enough to know if your bar is 2000 or 6000 series then the info might be helpful. A bit more www searching could determine the appropriate colours.

Disclaimer: I've never tried it, but I found it on the web so it must be true. :big:

Cheers
Phil

 

[Noitoen]

Isn't there some kind of density difference? If they're composed from different alloys, by comparison to known samples, with a precision scale you could weigh a sample and compare with the unknown sample. You could run outside shouting "EUREKA", just like Archimedes. :big: :big: :big:

 

[rleete]

Judging by the finish, those odd two pieces (short ones) are 7000 series, but don't take that as gospel.

 

[Philjoe5]

One difference among the common aluminum alloys is hardness. You might try a scratch test alongside the 2021 and 6061 alloys you know and see if you can detect a diff. The 7050 alloy I'm working with now is as hard as CRS.

Cheers,
Phil

 

[PhillyVa]

Last spring I helped my son a welder cut apart a Nickle tank (Up to 1.5" thick) for a chemical plant and there was a guy running around with a little gun like thingy checking the types and grades and %'s of all the scrap. The tank's outer skin was 97% while some of the inner parts tested at 80% pure.

So maybe your scrap dealer has one of these http://www.niton.com/Documents/alloy/NDT_PMI_Article_10_2007_web.pdf.

Regards

Philly

 

[gmac]

or one of these chemical ID kits....

http://www.alloyid.com/

Garry

 

[gmac]

Here's a few more clues (see page 4)

http://www.av8design.com/Ac43.13-1B/1s-ch4_2.pdf

Garry

 

[jack404]

Garry just got home with a small kit today

the right arrow in the pic is a 7000 grade and the other is a 4000 grade ( 8% silicon so why its shiny like 7xxx) or a marine structural

$90 inc GST from sims metals ( big metal recycling outfit here and coming to a scrap yard near you)

thanks for the tip on the kit just had to chase a local varient and finally got one

cheers to everyone for thier input and wishing gmac a coldy or three for the info

jack

( just hit 43 deg C here so coldies all round!!)

 

[Majorstrain]

just had to chase a local varient and finally got one

Hi Jack,
What was the name or part number for the kit at Sims?
I would like to get a kit as well. I'll track one down this side of the black stump.

Thanks
Phil

 

[jack404]

OK the kit is a Tell-All made by selby scientific in the UK ( the reagent bottles have India printed on them)

its a acid and reagent type kit so get good gloves and a good sulfuric acid or better mask

a couple of those pyrex specamin dishes would be good too

Sims use these in house and to be honest i got this from a mate who works there ( ex army mafia again) and paid the replacement cost to sims but hare and forbes have them too and i'm told atlas metals sell them as well but sims is way closer to me and i like catching up with old mates

its really fiddly to get exact grades but from what i'm reading all grades can be determined if you wanna take the various steps

for my hobby side knowing its 7000 grade is close enough ( light cam shaft)
or 2000 grade or 1000 etc ( all single tests)

for my specific's i buy a known item, with rifles you cant not know..

but for my filing machine project, solar motor project, etc near enough is good enough

sims buy the test kits from Blackwoods, and i think they are account holders only sales again..

so i doubt that helps you .. try hare and forbes or atlas/ kembla metals ( depending where your at)

if stuck.. give me a hoy and we'll scurry up another the same way..

cheers

jack

 

[Majorstrain]

Thanks Jack :bow: :bow: :bow:

 

[gmac]

Jack;
Glad you found a solution ( : - 4000 grade is odd, don't see it much in general use.

If you want to send me beer I can certainly keep it cold - although I don't drink!! Then again we can get Foster's here in Canada (but I think it's brewed by Molson's - our guys). No sign of XXXX.

Sounds like you guys need the cold brews more than us at this point.

Cheers
Garry

 

[gmac]

odd that four-ex beer came thru as trashX - what's that mean Jack...... :big:

Garry

 

[jack404]

ok hijacking my own thread here

Fosters has not been aussie drop since the movie "Bazza Mackensie" the poms bought it out and had a heart attack at the cost of the real hops so they changed it ( into dish water IMOHO) its not been a good beer for 30 years ( also only 4.9%)

fourx, well 10 years of lawsuits from a new boy company from the USA trying to stop them using a brand name that has been in use since 1841 so they can use the jingle "i can feel a fourex coming on" the US folks make condom's....

its not a bad drop but still a light beer ( 5.5%)

NQ lager
NT draught are 8% and 9%

my favourite bought beer is VB ( victoria bitter 6%) or my own version thats averaging 11%

end of self hijack

cheers all

jack

 

[greenie]

Here's a cheaper and easier way of picking the good stuff from the bad, when your down at the scrap merchants looking through unknown cast offs.
Just pick the offending article up twix the forefinger and thumb and give it a good tap with a hammer.
If'n it rings like a bell, then it's a good'un to take home
If'n it gives out a dull thud sound, put it right back where you got it from.
This will no tell you what specific grade it is, it will only tell you if you can turn it or not, the harder the material, the better the ringing noise.

 

[Dhow Nunda wallah]

Can't vouch for this personally, but an alchemist mate down the pub reckon's it near'nuff

solution of 1 gram of NaOH (lye) in 10 milliliters of water makes a quick spot check for sorting aluminum alloys. Place one drop on the bare metal and allow to react for a few seconds. Rinse without rubbing and compare with photo below.