Hardware Store Boiler

[Kludge]

BTW, I don't class myself as an expert in anything, just a layman with a bit of experience. So if I use layman's language, it gets the info over so that almost anyone can understand.

And? Clear, concise, easy to understand and relaxed. I really do think we need to encourage you to write a book - an assemblage of things like that as they come up for ... well, just about anyone interested in model machining.

Of course, all the folks here get autographed copies. ;D

Best regards,

kludge

 

[Bogstandard]

Kludge,

Been there, got the t-shirt. In fact you have posted on the back end of the resurrection of the old post.

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=615.0

John

 

[Kludge]

Been there, got the t-shirt.

Whoa! We have t-shirts here too?

In fact you have posted on the back end of the resurrection of the old post.

I've downloaded those pages and marveled at the language. The design too but the language meant a lot. Both in school learning how to be an aircraft mechanic and later a ME, then spending part of my career working at a college (I did a little teaching but mostly I was one of those evil & much hated admin critters), I learned that language meant a lot. That you're a lay person with experience seems to be a magic combination because you do have the experience to make things and the language skills to make it a lot easier for complete morons like me understand how to do the same thing. Thankfully, the vast majority of folks here are significantly more intelligent so if I understand what you're saying/doing, anyone can.

So, a compromise? No book but make the explanations like the one how you did the flanges available as a download in some form or another? They're already written so there's no real extra effort and collecting them will be a lot easier that doing a copy/paste/convert to PDF. (Er, wait. Can I admit to doing that?)

BEst regards,

Kludge

 

[Circlip]

Sorry for no reaction on the flange question Kludge, nothing wrong with them providing the mating faces don't resemble a plowed field, or better still they do but with a suitable gasket material between them. Have also seen flared ends on pipes of model steam fittings, like car brake pipe ends, the instructions for the HSB state this on the leader to the heater coil. You could use straight tubes for the water tubes, but what the designer has done it to try to get as much heat extraction from the blowlamp flame - Flash steam boilers are coiled tube - normally, if you can call flash steam normal.
Just a thought John and Marv. If you both set small bank accounts on opposite sides of the pond, you could send each other "" Presents "" An oppo of mine in a "Far eastern" country does this. A matter of mutual trust, but Hey, can't see a problem with you two, OH buns, ANYBODY on this site, although SOMEONES reference to Yorkshiremen has created an entry "In Zee Book" (Think his name begins with D )
You learn something new every day, never heard of the taper taps and dies for ME sizes before, seems a contradiction in our sizes for the problem of locking a taper. Seen the NPTF threads in proper engineering, but they can be machine cut, just never come across them in our sizes.
Regards Ian.

 

[Bogstandard]

Ian,

Really, as far as I am aware, MTP are only used by the die hards who require perfection in authenticity, replicating tapered pipe fittings, I suppose if they were made more available here, like ME taps and dies, people would start to use them. But as it is, most people are like yourself, and have never heard of them. I only knew about them because I was nosey one time at a model engineering display, and asked how the chap had made such nice, compact fittings (as usual, once you get these chaps going, they tell you their life history, but I did learn a bit about tapered taps and dies in the modelling world).
I would also suspect they produce a much better seal over a shorter screw in distance because of the taper.

Maybe Marv can enlighten us a little more.

John

 

[mklotz]

I don't think I can provide much in the way of enlightenment.

One almost never sees them called out on this side of the pond except in the case of plans derived from British sources or model designers who cut their teeth on back issues of "Model Engineer".

As Bogs indicated, their main application is to provide good sealing, just as in full-size practice. The engine I'm working on right now calls out MTP for removable oiling bungs in the top cylinder covers. If I had the tap and die, I'd make them as per plan. Lacking the tackle I will probably do something different or ignore them completely since the boiler already has a displacement oiler.

Another application is for commercially supplied accessories, e.g., safety valves, gauges, etc.. Some of the older vendors used to supply these with preformed MTP threads. However, this practice seems to be waning.

With the advent of modern sealants, the need for MTP is reduced although in an application where the part must be oft removed and replaced they still make sense, I suppose.

 

[Kludge]

Sorry for no reaction on the flange question Kludge, nothing wrong with them providing the mating faces don't resemble a plowed field, or better still they do but with a suitable gasket material between them.

I like gaskets anyway. I winder if cutting very shallow concentric rings on the mating surfaces so they kind of mesh together might not help them seal. Hmmm ... something to consider ...

You could use straight tubes for the water tubes, but what the designer has done it to try to get as much heat extraction from the blowlamp flame - Flash steam boilers are coiled tube - normally, if you can call flash steam normal.

They're kind of like the flash water heaters we used on boats - well, some used. There was no tank but taking a shower burned a lot more propane than it was worth.

I'm looking at something like an alcohol burner under the length of the tubing which might not heat as fast but I think would be a lot more efficient. The tubing would be made so it's always climbing cold end to hot end which would make it look almost like a road with a bunch of switchbacks on it and it should be enough to raise the 15 pounds or so pressure I want.

Thanks for your thoughts, Ian. I appreciate them.

Best regards,

Kludge

 

[Kludge]

I don't think I can provide much in the way of enlightenment.

So much for Zen. :big:

As Bogs indicated, their main application is to provide good sealing, just as in full-size practice.

But then, in addition to that, there is the occasional fool like me who thinks they just look good. The taps and dies are expensive but what price aesthetics?

Another application is for commercially supplied accessories, e.g., safety valves, gauges, etc..

Ummm ... who might still have these?

My steam engines may be somewhat fanciful (and a few totally implausable) but I like how these look. Yes, it's purely aesthetics rather than practicality or being a purist who is looking for that last bit of autheticity, but they're purty and bright and shiny and like that there. Besides, where would neo-Victorian engines be without proper plumbing?

BEst regards,

Kludge

 

[Dhow Nunda wallah]

Kludge, you're a man after my own heart.

"I like gaskets anyway. I winder if cutting very shallow concentric rings on the mating surfaces so they kind of mesh together might not help them seal. Hmmm ... something to consider .."

Call em gramophone flanges here. At least in the industrial environment in which I were dragged up.
Twas my thought to make some kind of form tool for the folly upon which I have embarked, in order to seal the flanges with oiled paper gaskets.

A true gramophone flange actually has concentric grooves rather than a single spiral.
Then again, perhaps at scale, a spiral would do?
I'm looking at 3 cyl, 54 stroke, 36 bore.
Just another reason to finish the power crossfeed on the 9x20.

Slainte, Lin

 

[mklotz]

My steam engines may be somewhat fanciful (and a few totally implausable) but I like how these look. ...

So, when are we going to see some pictures of these engines?

 

[Dhow Nunda wallah]

Mine Marv?
I can't even export DXFs yet

Got it fairly firmly in mind though.
Until I get to bed, and the design changes again

 

[Kludge]

So, when are we going to see some pictures of these engines?

As soon as I get my shop in proper running order again, however in a fit of absolute desperation I may try to create one using the Clisby and whatever I can turnip for materials. I think I can do that on the little bitty table I'm using to sort and put away my speshul hand tools. It should be a testament to it's capabilities too. Or lack thereof.

BEst regards,

Kludge the Frustrated

 

[BobWarfield]

Why Kludge, surely you must realize that Kludge is more than a name. It is a verb and a way of doing things.

You must simply "kludge" an engine together!

Cheers,

BW

 

[Kludge]

Why Kludge, surely you must realize that Kludge is more than a name. It is a verb and a way of doing things.

It's also a noun often but not always preceded by words I don't use. :-[

However, the verb form is how I got this nickname. It's more often seen without the 'd' but after many attempts by any number of people to "correct" it, I have retained the 'd' and wear it proudly. I think I should file it down someday, though. It tends to itch now and then. ;D

You must simply "kludge" an engine together!

That's pretty much what I have in mind but this gives me an excuse to try out the Clisby as well. Two stones, one bird ... pretty clever, no?

Best regards,

Kludge

 

[Kludge]

Several people have mentioned things in this thread like the MPT taps & dies, already made valves and such threaded for MPT and an assortment of other wonderfulness. I know where I can get fitting castings and the taps/dies for them but not the valves et al which would be really nice to find. Anyone have any pointers/URLs/etc?

Now, for the nice people in the UK ...

I'm not sure I understand when ME hardware is preferable vs BA hardware vs any of a number of other choices. Actually, I'm sure I don't understand even just a tiny itsy bitsy bit. I know that "preferable" has been stated as a matter of choice but I don't understand how they all came about and what they're intended to be used for. This isn't to say I'm going to run out and buy a full set of anything (I'd be more likely to do so on line. ) but having some understanding of this would be nice.

Or stated another way, I'm very curious. ;D

BEst regards,

Kludge

 

[Circlip]

Ok Kludge, over here in Limeyland, WE invented Model engineering, so WE decided on thread sizes just to p3ss the rest of the world off cos at THAT time we could! OK? :big: :big: :big:
Seribously though, the constant pitch sizes were judged to be the most effective fixings to fasten the materials we were using together. Consider tapping into sheet copper with the"Bigger" size threads, and then look at BA sizes. In BA,the pitch is a function of the diameter, so on that basis, what pitch for a 3/8" dia for a safety valve? A mate in Malaysia is using some oddball metric sizes-11mm x 1mm pitch and various others, but thats due to availability of threading tackle out there, or not, in the case of ME sizes.
Best Regards Ian.

 

[Kludge]

Ok Kludge, over here in Limeyland, WE invented Model engineering, so WE decided on thread sizes just to p3ss the rest of the world off cos at THAT time we could! OK?

Why am I not surprised? :big:

Seribously though, the constant pitch sizes were judged to be the most effective fixings to fasten the materials we were using together. Consider tapping into sheet copper with the"Bigger" size threads, and then look at BA sizes.

Okay, I'm strange (for a yank) but I kind of like the idea of using ME threaded hardware. Maybe I'm more a traditionalist than I want to admit to being? :-\

A mate in Malaysia is using some oddball metric sizes-11mm x 1mm pitch and various others, but thats due to availability of threading tackle out there, or not, in the case of ME sizes.

Watchmaker's lathes use odd threads for the drawbars & collets. I run into oddball diameters & thread pitches here and there, mostly in time pieces & cameras. For the lathes, I need to find someone who will cut one-off taps and dies for me so I can maintain the threads on mine plus make new accessories as needed. For the rest ... I do what I can.

Is this the fun part?

Best regards,

Kludge