Quantcast

Cx701 lathe report

Help Support HMEM:

kwoodhands

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Messages
121
Reaction score
24
Location
mays landing NJ.
Todays update:: When I bought the lathe, it didn't come with a tailstock chuck, so I bought a 5/8" chuck with a detachable MT3 arbor. The arbor has a tang on it. The arbor will only fit into the tailstock if the tailstock is extended 1 1/4".--Huh?? That didn't seem right so I called BusyBee.--Seems I need an arbor without the tang. Only problem is, they don't sell an arbor without the tang that has the correct taper at the other end to fit the chuck. They do have a drawbar type arbor, but the damned thing has the wrong taper at the chuck end. Local Busybee called head office while I was there, and was told "We source our tooling from all over the world (read India) and we can't be responsible if the arbor doesn't fit the tailstock. "----Give me a friggin' break!!! Next step is to cut the tang off the arbor with my metal cutting bandsaw and "file to finish".
I told a friend to cut the tang .He did, too short and I had to go over there and remove the arbor. I chucked the arbor and used the rest to hold up the tang end . Faced the end and bored and tapped for a 3/8/ 16 machine bolt. Then adjusted the bolt so the arbor would pop out . The arbor would set tight at 1/2" and pop out at about 9/16".
He was used to a mini=lathe where the tail stock chuck was made short.
mike
 

Shopgeezer

Well-Known Member
HMEM Supporter
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Messages
226
Reaction score
27
Location
Canada
My King 10x20 lathe has an MT3 taper in the tailstock. The drill chuck arbor that came with the lathe has a tang but the tailstock tube had no matching bar inside to catch the tang. The tailstock is fussy about where it ejects the arbor when you are close to the end of the travel so I was turning the taper sometimes when drilling. I took the tailstock tube to a real machine shop and we drilled an offset hole in the tube and pressed in a spring clip. This wasn’t quite up to factory precision but it catches the tang sufficiently to hold the arbor firm.

I would have given that Busy Bee person a good piece of my mind. What nonsense is that! Talk to his supervisor.
 

Richard Hed

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
856
Reaction score
188
Location
Seattle
It is stamped 250-100- China. I don't remember where I bought it now.---Brian
OH, I am having this problem myself about the so called "200 series" quick change tool posts. In some publications, they talk about such and such being in the "200 series" qc, but I have another "200 series" qc on another lathe and the two things are different sizes. So the 200 series words are not accurate enough to describe the actual tool. So I figure "250" means some kind of adjustment in the so called 200 series. Does anyone know the exact meaning of these numbers? Such as the above 250-100?
 

Richard Hed

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
856
Reaction score
188
Location
Seattle
When you talk with DRO PRO you will also find out there source in India, and that is another topic of discussion. Much of the mechanical expertise is very British is origin. This does not limit their design and they are fierce competitors of the Chinese. So if you have patience the India market is accessible. Plus they have a more favoured trade status with Canada. Plus I am sure we all have friend who know some one who knows someone as the saying goes.
Yes, I thimk I am going to try to use India made stuff when I can. I thimpfk, however, that they have quality troubles and that may come from the fact that the Indians have tiny manufactories, like mom&pop manufactories. They needs to get bigger to be better.
 

Courierdog

Well-Known Member
HMEM Supporter
Joined
Dec 21, 2020
Messages
67
Reaction score
34
Location
Edmonton, AB, CA
Richard, you are so right about the condition of many so called factories in India, They farm out many functions to what we call the Mom & Pop stores. It is not that they cannot do good work but the QA is not the same as what we have come to know in western society and The Orient has adopted. India will get there in time.
For the most part I find the Chinese Machinery to have better QA in General. The Trick is finding the same item with the names we know but from the original source and are willing to wait for shipment direct from China. The same applies for India but they are not organized in the same manner so it is much more difficult to get to the source, Unless you have help from expats neighbour who know a guy who knows a guy so to speak.
 

Richard Hed

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
856
Reaction score
188
Location
Seattle
Richard, you are so right about the condition of many so called factories in India, They farm out many functions to what we call the Mom & Pop stores. It is not that they cannot do good work but the QA is not the same as what we have come to know in western society and The Orient has adopted. India will get there in time.
For the most part I find the Chinese Machinery to have better QA in General. The Trick is finding the same item with the names we know but from the original source and are willing to wait for shipment direct from China. The same applies for India but they are not organized in the same manner so it is much more difficult to get to the source, Unless you have help from expats neighbour who know a guy who knows a guy so to speak.
Exactly. I bought a milling attachment for a small lathe from India. It had good workmanship where it mattered, but the metal was relatively soft. It was also some re-used material they must have found on the railroad track. The screw handle had not been properly center hole drilled and that was broken off when it arrived. The gib screw holes were done like a child had done the job and there were other small errors. When I opened the package, the first thing that happened was that I cut my thumb on the sharp edges of the bed. Ultimately, it works fine but next time I buy from India, I will be more careful in opening the package--LOL.
 

kwoodhands

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Messages
121
Reaction score
24
Location
mays landing NJ.
Looks exactly like the QCTP that I purchased earlier this year, the only negative thing about mine is that the sockets on the screws clamping the tool bit soon round off. My tool holders take 5/8" shanks and I have also made a special holder for 20mm shanks that I used on the old 4 way post. I occasionally change the toolposts around depending on which tool I want to use, it takes about 20 seconds.

I like your topslide table with the T slots in it, the ability to move the whole topslide in further is a great idea.

EDIT, I just went out and checked the code on the QCTP, mine is a 250-200, a slightly bigger size.

Paul.
I bought new Allen screws that are much better for the tool post than the ones that came with it. Not sure where I bought them, Mcmaster Carr, Bolt Depot etc. These are hardened metric screws , the heads are much larger and take a larger hex wrench. I had to turn down the two screw heads next to the knurl as the larger heads interfered with height adjustment. Probably removed .032 or there about. I've been using these for about 4 years and no wear noticed at all. I think the original screw heads cammed out after less than two years. I believe my QCTP is an AXA and the piston type. The wedge types are supposed to be better, don't know as I only have used the piston type.
 

kwoodhands

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Messages
121
Reaction score
24
Location
mays landing NJ.
I have a problem, and it may not be as large as I see it, but it is a problem nonetheless. This lathe has has no carriage "lock" on it. There is a way to lock the topslide in place and there is a way to lock the cross-slide in place, but there is no way to lock the carriage in place on the ways. This is probably a good marketing strategy for Craftex, because if there was a carriage lock on it, sure as Hell somebody would lock the carriage, forget they had done so, and then engage the power feed and break something. You can "kind of" lock the carriage in place by not engaging the power feed at the gearbox and putting the lever on the front of the apron in "power-feed" position. This stops the carriage from being moved with the big hand-wheel on the front of the apron, but it will move (As measured with dial indicator) 0.019" left to right because of backlash in the power feed mechanism in the apron. This isn't a lot, but it becomes HUGE if you are doing anything like machining the rod journal on a crankshaft, as shown in the pictures. The slot is only .375" wide. The journal when turned to finished diameter will be .375" diameter. This means that to machine it, you must use a tool with a lot of "stick-out" from the tool-holder, because of the offsets in a typical crankshaft. I have machined the "sides" of the journal to finished dimension. Now I have to move the tool in and finish turning the journal to finished size. (It is 0.430" diameter right now.) The tool is .125" wide. So--the tool only has to traverse 0.25" in total left to right to take this finish cut on the diameter. With a good set of carriage stops mounted to the front "way" on the lathe, I could turn the wheel on the apron and move the carriage left to right, depending on the carriage stops to prevent going to far and have the turning crankshaft whack the top of the tool and break something. I find the movement you get by turning the wheel on the front of the apron to be very "coarse" and to not give a very good "feel" for what the tool is actually doing. I prefer to make the tool move left to right or vice-versa by turning the feed handle on the topslide. This gives me a much better control of the tool movement.---I can design and build an adjustable "travel limiter" which I can set up to limit the amount of travel of the topslide very accurately.--But---I still have that damned 0.019" of slop in the carriage to contend with. So--Okay--I can design and build a "carriage lock" that will securely lock the table in place as well---but it must be a "lock" which can slide without damaging the carriage or the ways or the gearbox if the "power feed" does accidentally get engaged. I can do that too--but now it's beginning to become a lot of extra work. This is definitely not a job where the power feed would ever be engaged but, "stuff happens". How do other folks with this lathe, or a clone of it handle this situation?---Brian

I believe you do have a carriage stop. Look at the carriage and you will see an Allen wrench screw.
In the photo it is on the flat portion to right of the compound ( top slide) handle and below the Tail stock.
Not familiar with your lathe but my 10x22 Grizzly lathe Has a similar lock screw .
mike
 

Richard Hed

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
856
Reaction score
188
Location
Seattle
I believe you do have a carriage stop. Look at the carriage and you will see an Allen wrench screw.
In the photo it is on the flat portion to right of the compound ( top slide) handle and below the Tail stock.
Not familiar with your lathe but my 10x22 Grizzly lathe Has a similar lock screw .
mike
Wait a sec. A carraige stop and a lock are different things. I thimpfk you are meaning 'lock'.
 

L98fiero

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2013
Messages
144
Reaction score
57
Location
Keswick, Ontario
Wait a sec. A carraige stop and a lock are different things. I thimpfk you are meaning 'lock'.
And given the location of the two screws with the dowel between them, it's more likely holding the apron to the carriage. Unless there's another screw I don't think there's a lock either. FWIW, I don't have a lathe like that either.
 

ignator

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2012
Messages
173
Reaction score
32
Location
USA, Iowa
OH, I am having this problem myself about the so called "200 series" quick change tool posts. In some publications, they talk about such and such being in the "200 series" qc, but I have another "200 series" qc on another lathe and the two things are different sizes. So the 200 series words are not accurate enough to describe the actual tool. So I figure "250" means some kind of adjustment in the so called 200 series. Does anyone know the exact meaning of these numbers? Such as the above 250-100?
The two types of QCTP, piston:wedge are supposed to use the same tool holders. I see that when I purchase them from Shars they had an issue with tolerance from their China factory. I have some holders that are darn tight. And I've had them to be sloppy loose.
Also, what I've inserted does not have the "zero" size which has recently shown up for the mini lathes.
Below I inserted info from PhaseII catalog.
QCTP diagram1.jpg

QCTP diagram2.jpg

Richard, this is probably not what your asking.
 

awake

Well-Known Member
HMEM Supporter
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
992
Reaction score
392
Location
North Carolina
As I understand it, the "200" size of QCTP is meant to be analogous to the "B" series of Aloris QCTPs. Many of the manufacturers attempt to make the 200 and the B series interchangeable. But the 200 designation is not a standard; it is really up to individual manufacturers what exactly that means, so there is no guarantee that a 200-size tool holder from one company will match either an Aloris or another company's 200 series.
 

Richard Hed

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
856
Reaction score
188
Location
Seattle
The two types of QCTP, piston:wedge are supposed to use the same tool holders. I see that when I purchase them from Shars they had an issue with tolerance from their China factory. I have some holders that are darn tight. And I've had them to be sloppy loose.
Also, what I've inserted does not have the "zero" size which has recently shown up for the mini lathes.
Below I inserted info from PhaseII catalog.
View attachment 122375
View attachment 122376
Richard, this is probably not what your asking.
Actually, you've cleared one thing up and yet made it more confusing. I thimpfk the second number in the designation indicates what size lathe swing one has, but it doesn't explain the first number. It was my mistake to thimpfk that the first number (in this case the 251, in my case 250) had to do with the "200 series". In any case, the holding area only designates the size of tool shank to be held, my question is 'what designates the size of the 'V' clamping area?' I have several that are less than a fraction of a mm off. I believe they are US made.
 

Richard Hed

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
856
Reaction score
188
Location
Seattle
As I understand it, the "200" size of QCTP is meant to be analogous to the "B" series of Aloris QCTPs. Many of the manufacturers attempt to make the 200 and the B series interchangeable. But the 200 designation is not a standard; it is really up to individual manufacturers what exactly that means, so there is no guarantee that a 200-size tool holder from one company will match either an Aloris or another company's 200 series.
Ah, lack of standardization! What a load of krap, (or is that karp?) originally, I had a few QTs that didn't fit the post I had (still have) then so I took a grinder and gently ground them out and they work fine. But now, I have a second toolpost on another lathe with the same prob. The difference is probably less than 10thou. Maybe i'll grind out one to fit the new post and test to see if it still works on the old one. If that is the case, I could use the QTs for both lathes.
 

Courierdog

Well-Known Member
HMEM Supporter
Joined
Dec 21, 2020
Messages
67
Reaction score
34
Location
Edmonton, AB, CA
Whe I purchased my Lathe 3536 from the Little machine shop I also got the QCTP 250 (0XA) later I obtained the AXA and the adaptor Nut and the Modified central screw post.
Oddly enough both work fin on my lathe.
We are getting off topic as this thread was supposed to be about Brian's report on his CX701 Lathe. Every time I go over to BBT I drool over these lathes. The ones Edmonton puts out on display have been meticulously cleaned and lubricated and adjusted to give that quality feel with every turn of a knob. We had a Craftex in our lab and while I had a machinist come in and align and fine fit the entire lathe it was an excellent machine.
So let hear more from Brian's adventure, and more picture of course. Lets hear it Brian, I am sure you have a lot more to tell us
 

Richard Hed

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
856
Reaction score
188
Location
Seattle
Whe I purchased my Lathe 3536 from the Little machine shop I also got the QCTP 250 (0XA) later I obtained the AXA and the adaptor Nut and the Modified central screw post.
Oddly enough both work fin on my lathe.
We are getting off topic as this thread was supposed to be about Brian's report on his CX701 Lathe. Every time I go over to BBT I drool over these lathes. The ones Edmonton puts out on display have been meticulously cleaned and lubricated and adjusted to give that quality feel with every turn of a knob. We had a Craftex in our lab and while I had a machinist come in and align and fine fit the entire lathe it was an excellent machine.
So let hear more from Brian's adventure, and more picture of course. Lets hear it Brian, I am sure you have a lot more to tell us
Brian's topic is five years old, he has completed his report, unless he has something new to add after owning it for five years and finding out the long term problems or additions or changes he has made. I would like to hear about it myself, but in the mean time, I thimpfk it is rather a good thing to hear about other people's work or problems on the machines. I find it interesting that you, yourself, found the various QCTP parts workt together. Even so, I still haven't found out what the tiny differences are in such numbers as 251-100 and 250-100. I suppose I will have to break down and go look on Dogpile, or DuckDuckGo. That's where we get the words "doggit" and "dukduk" -- meaning to search on the internet.
 

Courierdog

Well-Known Member
HMEM Supporter
Joined
Dec 21, 2020
Messages
67
Reaction score
34
Location
Edmonton, AB, CA
Richard Hed:
OK on the QCTP
I believe the difference between the 250-100 which is the sliding wedge style and the 251-100 is the Piston Style.
The attachments re propertied to be identical.
I have the 250-100 and several attachments which I obtained from the Little Machine Shop.
The 250-100 QCTP replaces the existing four-sided Tool Post on the LMS Lathes with nothing more than removing one and replacing it with the other.
While the AXA Aloris QCTP requires a new Centre Bolt and Compound Nut
The LMS carries this style of tool post in three sizes (0XA, AXA, BXA), with sets configured for several different lathes.
Here is a quote from their Literature.
0XA or Series 000
The 0XA (250-100) is the smallest of the three sizes. The body of the tool post is 1.75” square and 2.5” tall. This tool post is a good fit for lathes up to 8” swing. We carry two standard sets in this size.
PN 3112 has a cut-off tool holder that holds the cut-off blade horizontal. This allows the set to work with lathes with only 0.63” vertical distance from the top of the compound to the centerline of the lathe. This quick change tool post set bolts on to 7x10, 7x12, 7x14, and 7x16 mini lathes with no additional hardware.
PN 3048 has a cut-off tool holder that holds the cut-off blade at the standard 4° angle. This set requires 0.75” vertical distance from the top of the compound to the centerline of the lathe.
The only difference between the PN 3112 set and PN 3048 set is the cut-off tool holder; the tool posts are identical. The PN 3112 set includes the PN 3117 cut-off tool holder. The PN 3048 set includes the PN 3774 cut-off tool holder.
Our 0XA quick change too post sets that are configured for specific lathes include either the PN 3112 or the PN 3048. Besides the quick change tool post sets, these products include special mounting hardware.
AXA or Series 100
The AXA quick change tool post is designed for lathes with swing from 7” to 12”. We carry the Aloris brand (PN 3876) and a less expensive version of a similar design (PN 2280).
In my case I required the 4117 mounting stud.
This stud is threaded M12 on the bottom and M10 on the top.
Quick Change Tool Post Mount, 0XA for Lathes
Requires 4914 compound rest top. This is the current method to allow more clearance for the tool holders.
I fit mine without the as my tool holders in the lathe as the Diamond Tool Holder has adequate clearance.
I hope this helps.
 

ignator

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2012
Messages
173
Reaction score
32
Location
USA, Iowa
Brian's topic is five years old, he has completed his report, unless he has something new to add after owning it for five years and finding out the long term problems or additions or changes he has made. I would like to hear about it myself, but in the mean time, I thimpfk it is rather a good thing to hear about other people's work or problems on the machines. I find it interesting that you, yourself, found the various QCTP parts workt together. Even so, I still haven't found out what the tiny differences are in such numbers as 251-100 and 250-100. I suppose I will have to break down and go look on Dogpile, or DuckDuckGo. That's where we get the words "doggit" and "dukduk" -- meaning to search on the internet.
251-xxx was the part number of a set (tool post and a few holders) as seen in my post above.
250-xxx for individual part numbers of the post or holders.
 

Latest posts

Top