Cole's Power Models - What is going on there?

Home Model Engine Machinist Forum

Help Support Home Model Engine Machinist Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

chads

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 27, 2010
Messages
79
Reaction score
4
So I have finally decided to build a small hit n miss engine. After reading many good things about the Coles products I ordered one on August 5. After 3 weeks and many phone calls to a guy named Ken, it appears he shipped it to the wrong address. When I finally received it last week it was missing the drawings, cylinder and a governor spring. I still have not received the missing parts after two more phone calls...

I am ready to ship this thing back :mad:

Does anyone know of a comparable motor I can purchase?

Thanks,
Chads
 
Your not alone. They don't always fallow through on orders. Seems if the have an item it is shipped fast. If they don't the order falls in a black hole never to be seen again. If you call it's I will check on that and if you ask for them to call you they never do. Had some items on order for over 6 months. After last phone call told them to cancel the order.
 
I went well over one year in an attempt top get one of my orders completed with them. It consisted of two full sets of castings for their small H/M engine. It seemed that they had/were experiencing problems with a foundry getting base castings poured. OK, I can live with that, **** happens, but countless telephone calls and emails that went unanswered and even several hand written letters, 14 months later they sent me the missing castings, along with a few other spare parts that I did not order. I returned the extras like a ninny with a note explaining that I would never again be ordering from them. I had spent quite a bit of money over the years with them but after being treated like that, never again. And I haven't. All it would have taken would have been a call or email periodically letting me know what was/had/wasn't happening, but I had to dog them for any information. Never again, I have since taken my business elsewhere. Good luck getting your order sorted out.

BC1
Jim
 

I shipped the engine back yesterday. I also informed my credit card company of the issue I am having with them. I am not certain they will even credit my account. I would imagine it would be hard to stay in business with that kind of customer sevice. If anyone has a complete complete small H&M kit they would like to sell, let me know. I still would like to build one.
 
Just so people know the "OLD" Cole's was sold as I understand it. When the long time owners left the biz, don't know if it was retirement, or other.
They were a non entity for a while, during which the new owner/s were getting things sorted.

Don't know who etc.bought it. But with the economy and the small casting kits cost and dealing with small founders grouping the pours to fit the capacity of the equipment to use the materials fuel metals in the most economical fashion.

There is a good reason the number of small companies that produce casting kits in this country has been reduced in the last couple of years.

There was the hit & miss engine guys, brothers that got out of the casting business. Blackberry was the name If I remember.

Meyers engine works also is no longer currently operating. They were at a large show on the east coast 2 years ago and didn't sell one casting kit. barely made fuel money, to haul the casting home.

Clarence, retired and moved to Fla with wife and steam launch. At this time they wasn't anybody that wanted to by the patterns, etc or the business.

And from the sound of it at the last large show, there may be a return to the making of engines of all kinds by stock or casting parts yourself!

Tis the way of the hobby world, during a bad economy.
 
Haven't bought anything from Coles since the original owners sold it several years ago. The original owners were good to deal with and I never had a problem. Was sorry to seem them get out of the business.

Here are some links to other sites which sell model engine castings:

http://home.earthlink.net/~randyarockwell/index.html

http://www.pmresearchinc.com/store/home.php?cat=332

http://www.lonestarengineworks.com/Products.html

Don't know much about the first one other than I met the owner at GEARS about 4 years ago.

I've bought a few things from PM Research and never had any issue.

The last link belongs to a fella who lives less than 10 miles from me. I visited him a few weeks ago and saw his set up. I think he would be a reliable person to deal with.

Chuck
 
http://www.lonestarengineworks.com . . . The last link belongs to a fella who lives less than 10 miles from me. I visited him a few weeks ago and saw his set up.- Chuck
Chuck,
I've corresponded with Maury a few times, about his Corliss model, but unfortunately he discontinued the cast-iron version which I wanted to get. Apparently his iron foundary was no longer willing to produce the castings for a price or quality he could sell. It appears he's now removed the Corliss from his product listings entirely - sorry to see that, but not just anyone wants (or is capable) to build a Corliss. I have seen Keith Spriggs' verison of this engine and it's a beauty. (See attached pic)
PTsideshow said:
Just so people know the "OLD" Cole's was sold as I understand it. When the long time owners left the biz, don't know if it was retirement, or other. They were a non entity for a while, . . . .
I can give you a potted history of Coles. When founder Charlie Cole died the business was left in the hands of son Charles and Betty Coles. It was Betty who was the force behind the business for many years. It was duirng this time that Coles suffered a break-in burglery and all the original Chas Coles models (the 1" Case tractor, etc) were stolen and have never been recovered. When the Coles decided to retire they sold the business to a former part-time employee who it appears had been setting himself up to buy them out for some time, and not in a good way. It appears the new owner thought of the business only in terms of profit (not a bad thing) with no consideration for service to the live steam community and operated on that basis. Based upon reports from customers during that time, and my own experience, stock dwindled, many standard items became unavailable, prices rose, and service and attitude was very poor. The result was an essential closure of the business and lots of hard feelings.

The present owner of Coles, the 3rd owner, bought the business from the second owner and reports from people I know have said that he is a good man and intends to bring Coles lines completely back, and then some, and resume what people had come to know and expect from Coles.

Now, I want to emphasize that what I am about to say should in no way be taken to mean that I don't believe and agree that customers of steam suppliers are entitled to get what they've paid for in timely manner or be kept informed as to delays and why, or get their investment back, there is no excuse for that . . . BUT . . . every economic and industrial factor that bears upon the production and supply chain is working against the model engineering and live steam consumer. Our needs are highly specialized, we have practically no ability to take advantage of economies of scale, providers are constantly subjected to the whims and vargaries of sub-providers (foundaries for instance) and the business economics of their suppliers, and the volume and profit margin for suppliers is so low that hardly anyone can make even an above poverty-level living from it. It is a very difficult business to be in, coupled with a customer base which is about as picky and demanding as any, and I'm not saying they shouldn''t be that way. But I have never dealt with any of the world's most well known suppliers, Coles, Little Engines, Friends, Stuart Turner, Reeves, Fyne Fort, Bonds, etc, who did not at some time or another suffer from supply line failures and delays, and even non-deliveries. That's a way of life, and it will probably get worse before (or if) it ever gets better, but that alone doesn't make any of them crooks. I set my personal cutoff time at six months. If it doesn't arrive after six months I ask for my money back. If it arrives in stock a week later, let me know and I'll probably reorder.

KeithCorliss 4.jpg
 
I agree with you Chuck about Cole's being sold. My Grandfather had dealings with the original owner whose name was also Chuck. As a matter of fact I have one of their silver anniversary catalogs in mint condition that Grandpa had thumb tacked to the wall, and that goes well back into the 50's. It is fun to look at the prices and compare to todays. I dealt with Chuck's daughters when they continued on after his passing and it was always a pleasure to speak to them over the phone when ordering. Not once did I have any problems. After the sale and move of the business to Texas is when the train wreck happened and I haven't been back since. It is entirely too bad and sad to see such a legacy come to such ends. PM Research is a very good place to do business with, fast, courteous service. If they do not have something in stock, they will ask if you still want it or not and they follow up on such things. As PT pointed out, it is getting more and more expensive to have castings made at a reasonable cost and in the end, the old timers retire and the hobby dies a small piece at a time.

BC1
Jim
 
I originally considered the PM Research "Red Wing" but I thought it might be too much for my first engine. I would hate to make a major mistake on a 500.00 engine casting. This is why I decided on the Cole's engine. I think I may just bite the bullet and go for the Red Wing :)

As a side note...
When I called them on Tuesday, I was told he had not shipped the drawings or missing parts because he did not have them ???. I gave him my address and phone number 3 times prior. At that point I told him I would like to send the kit back, he said ok then just hung up on me. That is just plain bad customer service which is why I decided to start this post. Maybe it will help someone in the future...
 
Chads, There are some Associated H & M engines available from a guy who bought Paul Briesch's patterns. I have 3 of them in the build process right now. I just got the third one up & running this morning. The casting set cost $135 including shipping when I bought them. I think the original Briesch casting set may have included castings for some of the smaller details and are not available now with this set. You can see some info on them on:

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=10521.msg116016#msg116016

The contact is:
Michael Pershinsky
P.O.Box 382
East Petersburg, PA. 17320

Email: [email protected]

Maybe this is what you are looking for.

 
Thanks for the info. I will see if I can contact him.
 

Chuck, I have thought of bar stock as well. I figured I would save a little time with a casting kit. It's not out of the question though.

Putputman - Can you post a picture of one of your water cooled engines you are working on. I think this is the way I may go. It looks like you had some spark plug issues with this kit from what I have read.

Thanks
 
PT, I am still optimistic about the developers/sellers of casting kits. There are still a number of us out there who are alive and well. Of course, the ones doing well are the ones who do NOT treat their customers like crap. Sure things are slow and the strong will survive as long as there is interest in the hobby.

The guy who owned Blackberry Models got too old to continue his business. I hope that happens to me someday too. His work is not lost, he sold it to Bob Bishop of Bishop Repair
in Indiana. I net Bob at Portland this simmer, nice guy. He is working on getting the patterns reworked for his foundry, which by the way is a really big job.

Along those lines, another great in the hobby, Dick Shelly has sold his business for health reasons. I have not been able to find out who has his stuff, but it will show up somewhere down the line. He had some really nice kits. BTW Chad, one of his Galloway kits would make an excellent kit for you.

There was a comment about my Corliss engine. I sold that design to a guy in Florida. He was going to produce it, but there again, it's a lot of work. That was an engine which was too complex for most HSMs to complete successfully.

Chad, go ahead and build the PM Research kit. I can't speak for them, but thy are good folks and I'd expect if you make a mistake they will support you. Don't be intimidated by
building from castings. if a casting seems complicated, sit down and make a plan before you cut. If you can't figure out a plan, there are a lot of good folks on this board who would be happy to help. Just ask.

maury

LSEW
 
Hi Chads

I would recommend the Associated from Mike. You can have it in one of 4 ways. Water or air cooled. And then spark plug or make & break. The make & break cylinders were not in stock when I ordered my 2 kits but he is planning on having some made up and he was running low on connecting rods but should have more by the end of the month.

Tim
 
I just talked to another machinist a couple of nights ago. He too has recently gotten rotten customer service from Cole's. Basically the Cole's guy in TX told him to take it or leave it. So, he left it.

A couple of mos ago, I ordered a set of drawings for a Stuart Beam engine I had purchased from a member here. The drawings came a few weeks later. Not the best copies and one edge is a bit chopped off. I've been meaning to call and ask for a cleaner set, but now I'm kinda getting the feeling that I'll never see my request fulfilled :p

Mike
 
Chads, this is one of my Associated Hired Man engines. It is on a temporary set up to run it for awhile.

The plug problem you mention has been resolved. I C-bored the plug hole and made plugs with a longer body and shorter threads. They have been working fine.

Hired Man R.jpg


Head Plug.jpg


Plug C-Bore.jpg


Plug.jpg
 
A note about Dick Shelly, I paid them a visit about a month ago, and bought one of the 1/4 scale Galloways. Don't know about them being out of business though, they still had quite a few kits and a new model they were working on. Dick himself said that his days of model making were over, but his son seemed to still have intrest in the hobby, and his wife is very knowledgeable about the business too. I wish them the best.
Chads, the cost of the Galloway kit will give way to the quality of the castings, which were done mostly if not all by Cattail Foundry in Gordonville, PA. I had Cattail cast some cam gears for one of my big hit and miss engines, first rate all the way. You may also concider the Economy kit from Joe Tochtrop.
 
Hey Putputman, thats a nice looking engine. You do great work!

Are the drawings any good with this kit? The castings look decent...

 

Latest posts

Back
Top