CAD /Autocad Help

[SmithDoor]

Mike, a couple of thoughts (which you may already have thought and discarded, but just in case):

1) Use a virtual machine to keep running XP or any other version of Windows - assuming you have a copy of that version of Windows that you can use. Running it in a VM without network connections will keep it safe despite not being updated, but still be conveniently available on your primary machine. I run VirtualBox and have both Windows XP and Windows 10 virtual machines available, though the last thing I needed XP for is on its way out. I also have a Windows 7 image; haven't used it in a long time, but it is still there if I ever do need it.

2) See if an open-source alternative would fit your needs. I have heard it said that using LibreCAD is somewhat similar to using ACAD - I don't know if that is true, since I've only used ACAD for about 5 minutes one time. I would think that a current version of LibreCAD would probably have at least all of the features that a 10 or 20 year old version of ACAD had - ? Again, don't know if that is true.

And one more thought that has already begun to be discussed above:

3) Use the opportunity to make the transition from 2D to 3D CAD. Make no mistake; it IS a transition; you have to learn a new way of thinking about the design process. For me a way to describe it is that I had to learn to model something rather than to make drawings of something. One can then turn the model into 2D drawings as needed, but that needs to be a later step, not the first step as in 2D.

The discussion above has explored some of the pros and cons of different commercial packages. If you dig around on the forum, you will find other extended discussions that include the pros and cons of open-source alternatives. I personally use the latter (FreeCAD), and it does everything I need as a hobbyist.

Pros: free and open source, so not going to get taken behind a paywall; ability to read and write in a huge variety of formats (STEP, IGES, etc.); has CAM features built in (which I have not yet had occasion to use, so can't speak to how adequate they may or may not be); tons of on-line tutorials; undegoing rapid development, so always getting better.

Cons: undergoing rapid development, so many of the on-line tutorials may be slightly or greatly out of date; for the same reason, the user interface is not always consistent from one workbench (module) to another; will not have all of the features and capabilities of the top commercial products. Some people say it is hard to learn, but in many cases, my sense is that the primary issue is not FreeCAD specifically, but rather transitioning to 3D CAD.

Obviously, different people's mileage will vary, but for me and what I need at this point, the pros far outweigh the cons. Yes, definitely a learning curve, but for me it was definitely at least as much or more about learning to think 3D as it was about learning FreeCAD. There are times when I see a tutorial on Fusion360 that I think, "Oh, I wish FreeCAD did it that way - that's easier" ... but there also times when I think, "Oh, that's an awkward way to do that; FreeCAD is so much easier."

I also have a virtual machine running XP . I use https://www.oracle.com/virtualization/virtualbox/
Works great too.
I set to use the filing system on windows 11 and copy/past from windows 11 to windows xp.

Dave

 

[HMEL]

) See if an open-source alternative would fit your needs. I have heard it said that using LibreCAD is somewhat similar to using ACAD - I don't know if that is true

Just recently have used LibreCad. The learning curve is not steep it is vertical. It needs a good learning program and help system. Scaling to print is difficult. It looks similar to AutoCad but the command paths are tortuous to say the least. It has potential but it will take a lot more development to bring it to a point where it can be downloaded and used immediately. If you are used to commercial cad programs you will not be happy camper. I am at a point I can make it work but will avoid it for work I want to do in a reasonable time.
However I lost the computer I had cad programs on and was desperate to get a drawing out and thought it could be mastered in a reasonable time. I was wrong and spent a considerable amount of time on you tube looking for help. That said I support its continued development as a free source alternative is needed.

 

[cds4byu]

I used FreeCAD for a while. It was good for solid modeling at the time, but the drawing modes were not powerful enough for my needs.

I'm now using Onshape with a free license. Great 3D CAD and drawing module. Programmable feature creation. Free to use, with the caveat that your models are available to anybody who can find them

Also, it could go away at any time as PTC owns them now.

But it's my favorite compromise at the moment.

Carl

 

[Zeb]

Yeh, Onshape started out good, but the always-shifting licensing pushed me away. It has a really good fillet solver.
I've had good success with FreeCad too. Usability/crashes make it a rough ride at times. Lots of options for everyone.

 

[Mike Ginn]

Andy
You have brought together many of my recent thoughts. I am looking into VM using the system built into W10 and I do have a enterprise (free licence) copy of XP and W7. I use a "Stunt" computer to experiment with and I'll setup 2000 and 98 on that for starters. I also need to find out if I can make the computer virus safe - I use Norton - and not provide a back door into W10 via XP on Vm. Any advice?
I think I am resigned to moving to 3D. It seems the right thing to do but as you say there is a learning curve. I guess I would like to do this learning at a time of my choosing - hence needing to know that I can run AC if I need to re-load.

As a long term user of AC I would like to stick with it and I have looked at some of the open source offerings but the motivation to learn a new package has not been there. At a recent (pre Covid) London Model Engineering show I purchased a copy of TurboCad but again I lacked the motivation and, I guess, resented the time if would take to re-learn everything.

I still have not dismissed the idea of running 2000 under W10 compatibility as several of you have successfully done - I just can't find a way to do it in spite of watching many YouTube help videos!

Thank you all for your advice

Mike

 

[TonySteamHobby]

I used Autocad at work since the 80s and owned the original Autocad Lite when it was a reasonable $99. When I retired, I requested that I be able to keep my copy of Autocad 2007 (as the company had purchased new copies on different licenses) instead of a parting gift. Imagine my surprise when I installed it and I was informed that I could not get a license key for an unsupported version of the software!!
I currently use Freecad, Turbocad Delux for Mac and Blender.
My biggest displeasure with Turbocad is that the gear function does not produce a true involute gear. I generally make gears in Freecad then import into Turbocad.

 

[gsg]

Hi,
you can check if Freedraft from "CADTEC Schweiz GmbH" can handle your needs. You can download it free at Kostenloses CAD-Programm - FreeDraft CAD
and check if it suits your needs. If you are satisfied you can have a unlimited version for a minimum donation of 30 $.
More information at FreeDraft DWG DXF CAD-Programm Details
Good luck
Guenter

 

[awake]

I also need to find out if I can make the computer virus safe - I use Norton - and not provide a back door into W10 via XP on Vm. Any advice?

Mike, I am an experienced hobbyist but not an expert, so take this with a grain of salt - but my understanding is that the ultimate security will be to disable the network interface in the XP virtual machine. At that point, you have the equivalent of a standalone machine with no connections to the outside, and the usual vector of infection is blocked.

BUT there is still one possible vector of infection to the standalone machine: if you walk up to the standalone machine and insert a thumb drive or DVD or so on that happens to have an infection on it, you may infect the standalone machine, especially if you copy anything to it. With a virtual machine, the "thumb drive or DVD" is expanded to include any shared drive space and/or anything that is copied over from the clipboard.

Note the direction of (initial) infection: before the XP VM could be infected, the host OS (Windows 10 or 11) would have to be infected. To say this another way, the system as a whole is not subject to any particular vulnerabilities due to the no-longer-updated XP; it is only subject to the vulnerabilities that your currently-being-updated Windows 10/11 is subject to. If the XP VM does become infected, could it pass back to the host? Sure, but primarily if not entirely through the same vector - shared file space or copying of files.

I suppose it is theoretically possible that someone could devise an attack vector specifically aimed at the virtual mechanism, that might allow an infection even without any sharing of files. However, I am not aware of any such.

Again, please apply appropriate amounts of NaCl to the above!

 

[Mike Ginn]

Thanks Andy - thats very useful info. I am currently looking at using either VirtualBox of HyperV - probably leaning towards VB. I have also been checking my XP disks and seem to have several copies (original disks) of XP Pro with the keys. I think these are enterprise versions and I need to fire up an old computer to load them to check. Yes I have old computers which would run 2000LT but I really need to use my main desktop in my study. Likewise I have 2000LT loaded on my CNC XP computer but thats in the workshop and the computer is very slow (purchased for its small size and parallel port as required by the KX1)
I am guessing that I could load Norton onto the VM - I have a spare licence.
.....all this is taking time - my wife wants me to edge the lawn - we have American friends over this week (I worked in Greenville SC) and my poor little Kiwi is getting neglected!

BTY this is an NaCl free zone

Thanks again

Mike

 

[SmithDoor]

Thanks Andy - thats very useful info. I am currently looking at using either VirtualBox of HyperV - probably leaning towards VB. I have also been checking my XP disks and seem to have several copies (original disks) of XP Pro with the keys. I think these are enterprise versions and I need to fire up an old computer to load them to check. Yes I have old computers which would run 2000LT but I really need to use my main desktop in my study. Likewise I have 2000LT loaded on my CNC XP computer but thats in the workshop and the computer is very slow (purchased for its small size and parallel port as required by the KX1)
I am guessing that I could load Norton onto the VM - I have a spare licence.
.....all this is taking time - my wife wants me to edge the lawn - we have American friends over this week (I worked in Greenville SC) and my poor little Kiwi is getting neglected!

BTY this is an NaCl free zone

Thanks again

Mike

If you use Oracle VM it lists copy and past between XP and Windows 11. You setup files sharing so a files on Windows 11 and same file on XP.

Oracle also works with Windows 95 , Me and 2000 in Windows 11.
There videos on setting up the Oracle for XP too.
You also turn off the internet to XP in Oracle too

Dave

 

[awake]

I've only used VirtualBox by Oracle. Just to be clear, there is both a setting for enabling/disabling copy and paste between the VM and the host, but also ways to set up shared directories that the VM can access as if it were a network drive.

 

[Mike Ginn]

Andy/Dave
I have set up VB on W10 and loaded 32bit XP Pro which runs. When I try to run 98LT it complains that it needs 32bit and not 64bit. The info in VB clearly stated XP32bit as I defined in the setup. I think I am not loading 98LT correctly - I am just letting it load from the setup.exe.

Is there a simple way around this or do I need to search through Mr YouTube!

A slightly frustrated Mike!

 

[awake]

Just to be sure: when you set up the new virtual machine, you choose the configuration that matches the OS you will load. Did you choose XP (32bit there) AND also make sure your XP installation is 32bit?

Beyond that ... I'm hoping Dave knows, because this exceeds my experience.

 

[SmithDoor]

Andy/Dave
I have set up VB on W10 and loaded 32bit XP Pro which runs. When I try to run 98LT it complains that it needs 32bit and not 64bit. The info in VB clearly stated XP32bit as I defined in the setup. I think I am not loading 98LT correctly - I am just letting it load from the setup.exe.

Is there a simple way around this or do I need to search through Mr YouTube!

A slightly frustrated Mike!

You find good YouTube and pdf files on setting up Oracle VM.
It like XP the best but have load Windows 95 but with 95 you have to buy a display driver for 16 bit color.

Dave

 

[Mike Ginn]

I think I am moving forward but in reality I'm stuck!

I have loaded VB and then loaded AC98 which needs to be a ISO file to load into VB and there's the rub. I really need AC2000 for the dxf function and 2000 does not find the ACLT.exe file - as it is virtual?

I will try the Microsoft Hyper approach and see if that works.

BTW I found this very good
https://www.groovypost.com/howto/se...-older-or-incompatible-software-on-windows-10
and it even loaded AC98 but sadly not 2000 upgrade.

Maybe over the weekend I will be cutting metal again!

Mike

 

[SmithDoor]

Thanks Andy - thats very useful info. I am currently looking at using either VirtualBox of HyperV - probably leaning towards VB. I have also been checking my XP disks and seem to have several copies (original disks) of XP Pro with the keys. I think these are enterprise versions and I need to fire up an old computer to load them to check. Yes I have old computers which would run 2000LT but I really need to use my main desktop in my study. Likewise I have 2000LT loaded on my CNC XP computer but thats in the workshop and the computer is very slow (purchased for its small size and parallel port as required by the KX1)
I am guessing that I could load Norton onto the VM - I have a spare licence.
.....all this is taking time - my wife wants me to edge the lawn - we have American friends over this week (I worked in Greenville SC) and my poor little Kiwi is getting neglected!

BTY this is an NaCl free zone

Thanks again

Mike

If hard time I can send a copy to you of Oracle with XP installed.
You still need to down and install Oracle. Version 5.2.44 r139111 (Qt5.6.2) or 5.x works the best the newer version does not work that well on windows 11.
The email size is under 2.7 gig bits
https://www.oracle.com/virtualization/virtualbox/
Dave

 

[Mike Ginn]

Thanks Dave for that kind offer. I have VirtualBox 6.1 working with XP Pro loaded but I cant get the 2000 upgrade to work since it can't find the ACLT.exe file. I have tried to copy the file from another system but that doesn't work. Being an upgrade I guess it is looking for evidence that I have 98LT - which I have loaded in VB. On my CNC XP computer I have loaded 98 and then 2000 and it works well. Its just not in my study with a large screen and a comfy chair!

The reason for needing 2000 is that it supports dxf format which is common to many applications. I try not to run convertors since that can cause many file problems - but it could be my way forward. However I still have Hyper-V to try if I have the mental strength - maybe a glass of red would help!

Several folk have said that they have 98LT or earlier working on W10 and W11 - how? I cant work out any method to force the compatibility and I don't think I am missing anything. Confusing!

I think I will go and kick the cat!

Mike

 

[SmithDoor]

Thanks Dave for that kind offer. I have VirtualBox 6.1 working with XP Pro loaded but I cant get the 2000 upgrade to work since it can't find the ACLT.exe file. I have tried to copy the file from another system but that doesn't work. Being an upgrade I guess it is looking for evidence that I have 98LT - which I have loaded in VB. On my CNC XP computer I have loaded 98 and then 2000 and it works well. Its just not in my study with a large screen and a comfy chair!

The reason for needing 2000 is that it supports dxf format which is common to many applications. I try not to run convertors since that can cause many file problems - but it could be my way forward. However I still have Hyper-V to try if I have the mental strength - maybe a glass of red would help!

Several folk have said that they have 98LT or earlier working on W10 and W11 - how? I cant work out any method to force the compatibility and I don't think I am missing anything. Confusing!

I think I will go and kick the cat!

Mike

You have to the cd player and shared files.

Dave

 

[mike-oz]

Had the same issue with AcadLT (purchased LT when I retired and left professional drawing firm) having used Acad for decades.
After much frustration ie not running on Windows 10 etc etc etc I bit the bullet and purchased at a very reasonable cost TurboCad Delux.
It runs beautifully, does everything AcadLT did and heaps more if you want, including 3D.

There is a learning curve but there are heaps of excellent free YouTube videos

 

[SmithDoor]

Had the same issue with AcadLT (purchased LT when I retired and left professional drawing firm) having used Acad for decades.
After much frustration ie not running on Windows 10 etc etc etc I bit the bullet and purchased at a very reasonable cost TurboCad Delux.
It runs beautifully, does everything AcadLT did and heaps more if you want, including 3D.

There is a learning curve but there are heaps of excellent free YouTube videos

My first CAD program was TurboCAD it work good.
The only problem I had was emailing to everyone that had Autocad. Still have my copy I purchased in 1995.

Dave