Browser

[Gordon]

I am wondering which browser and operating system that folks are using. I used Chrome for several years until recently when I got a new laptop and decided to try Edge. That was because I had been told that Chrome was vulnerable to viruses hacking and did not protect my computer. The latest "information/wisdom" is that windows 11 is much safer and does not require anti virus software. It seems that everyone has a strong opinion on which is the best browser and which OS is safest. Opinions?

 

[kuhncw]

Gordon, asking for opinions on browsers and operating systems will definitely generate some discussion. <g>

Chuck

 

[Marmech]

Hi Gordon,

I’ve been using Chrome for about 10 years since ditching Firefox as at the time it appeared to be slowing things down although I believe Chrome has become very bloated now too so perhaps it’s time for a change again?

As for OS I just use as up-to-date a version of Windows as my hardware will allow.

To me online security and home security are much the same, you can follow all the best practice and make sure you use quality locks / Antivirus etc to deter the opportunists, but if someone decides specifically that they want something that you’ve got then they’ll get it by some means.

Mark

 

[Gordon]

I just switched back to Chrome. In the meantime I lost a bunch of settings and had to do some cleanup,

 

[ajoeiam]

I am wondering which browser and operating system that folks are using. I used Chrome for several years until recently when I got a new laptop and decided to try Edge. That was because I had been told that Chrome was vulnerable to viruses hacking and did not protect my computer. The latest "information/wisdom" is that windows 11 is much safer and does not require anti virus software. It seems that everyone has a strong opinion on which is the best browser and which OS is safest. Opinions?

Well - - - - if you think you can get by without anti-virus software and you're running ANY M$ product - - - - you go right ahead.

Please do not ask for help after the disasters and me, for one, anyway - - - well I'd rather not hear about the disasters either.

I tell people that I 'chose to no longer accept Microsoft's security opportunities' - - - meaning I haven't run M$ except in rare occasion (and not at all in about 4 years now) and then only in the electronic equivalent of a max security jail!

Windows was never designed with privacy or security in mind. All the bits that have been glued on since really haven't improved things that much.

Every browser is vulnerable - - - - its the nature of Java Script - - - - even Java - - - - the language was NOT designed with any kind of rigorous systems and IMO rigorous thinking either - - - so well there's lots of places for script kiddies and other even more malicious folks to work their jollies.

Even Linux can be unsafe - - - - BUT you have to chose to make it that way.
M$ windows - - - well its bloody hard to get it even sorta close to safe and then - - - well M$ itself is running a keystroke logger - - - - and et is calling home - - - not occasionally but LOTS.

When pushed (it sorta feels like you're asking seriously so I'll answer that way!) I indicate that *nix is generally like a safe with serious controls and entry protocols - - - M$ windows on the other hand is a little bit like a screen door made with 1" square mesh - - - it won't even slow down the mosquitoes!

Forgot about which and what browser.

I think that they all suck - - - - just in different ways.
Chrome - - - - ho boy - - ms googly loves to stick her head right into your shorts (never mind further!) looking at everything.
Firefox - - - - its way behind in the use category and its got enough technical issues (as me about some of my joys if you want more details but that's private!)
I've got 4 others on my system and each has some kind of issues (Opera, Vivaldi, Falkon, Min)

As far as slowing the tracking and egregious cookies - - - well - - - that's why I'm using mainly firefox - - - with uBlockOrigin AND privacy badger
and even then there is enough crap getting through!!!!!!!!!!!! I like the requirements out of the EU re cookies and generally only allow 'necessary' and none of the personalization, optimisation, advertising or connecting options.
Sorta to give you an idea on how stupid the tracking is - - - - bought a wreath from my mom's funeral and within an hour I was seeing crap similar in the ads that they manage to sneak through my blockers - - - I bought the stuff on the phone!!!!!!!! - - - - just my searching out the florist was enough.
(Can you tell that I think the unholy 5 are demented!!!!!!!!!!!!! (don't care if they're rich!!!!))

(And therein ends the diatribe!)

 

[Gordon]

OK I am serious. Keep in mind that most of us are not computer experts and are not familiar with the various programs and hardware. We just use our computer to read forums like this, send email, buy stuff online and research various topics etc. I get irritated by the tracking but it is not the main problem. For the most part I can just delete or ignore that. I completely agree that computers and software are far too bloated with stuff which we will never use and cannot get rid of.

This came up for me because I needed a new laptop because the old one got so clogged up with worthless junk which I could not remove that there was not room for the basic operation system. Also my current antivirus (Avira) was due for renewal. Several people seem to believe that with windows 11 the security situation was adequately covered. I just want to know if that is true. I have been told that it is true and I have been told that it is not good enough. Why does life have to be so complicated? I have spent my life working on mechanical stuff, not computers. I just want the basic computer use, not have something which can program the space shuttle.

 

[trlvn]

I just want the basic computer use

Curious if you considered an Apple iPad? Compared to the alternatives, the OS has the most privacy and security built-in that you can get in a consumer-friendly device. (IE, not something 'hardened' for high-security needs like an intelligence agency.) There are still chinks in the armour but the OS is regularly updated to keep closing the cracks.

My wife loves hers. Keeps it beside her work laptop (Windows) as a scratch pad. Has an ungodly number of tabs open at all times (Safari). Email, messaging, apps for her card-making hobby, etc, etc. I showed her how to connect a full size keyboard (bluetooth) but she never bothers.

FWIW,

Craig

 

[stanstocker]

Greetings,

Chrome is more of a data harvesting app to support googles targeted advertising and monetizing of users posing as a browser. Chromium is similar to the browser side of chrome, but open source without the heavy spy on the user focus. Many seem to think Chromium and Chrome are the same thing, they most emphatically are not.

Firefox has ups and downs but works OK most of the time. I'd encourage adding some privacy enhancing extensions like Ghostery if using firefox. If you have heartburn with Mozilla foundation that's fine, but I'd consider that to be on the political side of things and don't want to go there.

I tend to use Brave as it is a privacy focused browser, just know that some web pages don't work unless you turn down the data and pop up filtering when using it.

On as related topic, I try to use DuckDuckGo for searches, but do sometimes have to use google to get the info I'm after. The upside to google search is a product of their downside - all that data they gather does improve search results. It's what else they use the data for that's at least iffy, and in many cases only disclosed when outside security researchers, FOIA requests, EU privacy laws, or former employees dig into the topic or disclose info that google would prefer to be kept quiet.

I won't go anywhere near the MS / Apple fanboy arguments, I use linux by choice, microsoft when I must. AVG and/or Avast are my virus tools of choice on MS platforms, AVClam runs on the linux boxes.

Cheers,
Stan

 

[awake]

I use Firefox on Ubuntu (Linux). Works well for me, but of course, "mileage may vary"!

 

[Gordon]

Curious if you considered an Apple iPad? Compared to the alternatives, the OS has the most privacy and security built-in that you can get in a consumer-friendly device. (IE, not something 'hardened' for high-security needs like an intelligence agency.) There are still chinks in the armour but the OS is regularly updated to keep closing the cracks.

My wife loves hers. Keeps it beside her work laptop (Windows) as a scratch pad. Has an ungodly number of tabs open at all times (Safari). Email, messaging, apps for her card-making hobby, etc, etc. I showed her how to connect a full size keyboard (bluetooth) but she never bothers.

FWIW,

Craig

The problem with Apple and also Linux is that a big part of my use is the 2D cad program that I still use for my hobby will only run on Windows. I have never used an iPad but I have done a little bit of experimenting with Linux and the cad program will run but not well. That is not only my limited experience but several others have also tried.

 

[HMEL]

I am wondering which browser and operating system that folks are using. I used Chrome for several years until recently when I got a new laptop and decided to try Edge. That was because I had been told that Chrome was vulnerable to viruses hacking and did not protect my computer. The latest "information/wisdom" is that windows 11 is much safer and does not require anti virus software. It seems that everyone has a strong opinion on which is the best browser and which OS is safest. Opinions?

I use windows and have for a long time. The reason used to be I understood it and I felt the other operating systems did not have the choice of available programs. I used to have a good handle on it but not so much now. Windows changes to 11 make two of my newer computers incompatible because of the hardware. So now I am of the opinion that most of the operating systems are fine. I pad is special and I don't favor it because it is app orientated. I use it more for communication then anything else.

Browsers the same although edge is probably dovetailed into windows 11 more efficiently.

The ***** I have about browsers is the tracking mechanism. I slapped DUCK-Duck go on chrome and quite often it blocks stuff. However with youtube its wide open. Norton is always telling me who is tracking and I suspect its when I dont use duck duck go. But one thing for sure you get different search opinions when using it especially if it is political and even scientific. The articles google doesnt want you to read are not there. Go figure.

What irritates me is the selection of a virus protector. Norton, Macafee, whatever. I use both Norton and Macafee depends on what computer. I am a retired engineer and guilty of hoarding computers. but some of my older software will not run on new systems.

Now so you know hackers work in teams there is not just one guy out there and these guys are viscous. All they want is money So you do not want to be without the defense I used to like hacking when I was younger but gave it up when I saw what was being done. There are so many ways to bust into files and probably a hundred different ways to hide doing it. What amazes me is that companies are idiots when it comes to IT in protecting their hardware and software. Sometimes I think the people on this forum are better at it then they are.

I am very interested what people have to say about this topic software and operating systems.

 

[ajoeiam]

OK I am serious. Keep in mind that most of us are not computer experts and are not familiar with the various programs and hardware. We just use our computer to read forums like this, send email, buy stuff online and research various topics etc. I get irritated by the tracking but it is not the main problem. For the most part I can just delete or ignore that. I completely agree that computers and software are far too bloated with stuff which we will never use and cannot get rid of.

This came up for me because I needed a new laptop because the old one got so clogged up with worthless junk which I could not remove that there was not room for the basic operation system. Also my current antivirus (Avira) was due for renewal. Several people seem to believe that with windows 11 the security situation was adequately covered. I just want to know if that is true. I have been told that it is true and I have been told that it is not good enough. Why does life have to be so complicated? I have spent my life working on mechanical stuff, not computers. I just want the basic computer use, not have something which can program the space shuttle.

(Normally only read 1x per day to cut time spent on less-than-productive for business stuff so breaking self imposed 'rules'.)

I understand that you're not a computer expert - - - I'm not either - - - 15 years ago - - well I was pretty up on a lot of things - - -today - - - i ask questions on certain groups and otherwise lurk. There just isn't enough time in a day nor a life to keep up with all the 'malarkey' (even if it isn't all malarkey!!).

For the use cases you've outlined - - - - well I'd ditch M$ Win so fast there wouldn't be any dust left for likely a block around!

Get another used computer with whatever operating system you want and keep it unplugged from the web - - - its use is just to run what you can't get easily on *nix - - -you know like CAD, CAD/CAM some specialty programs and the like.

You might still be well served with your present machine in fact.
Its all about the specs - - - - my main box is some over 10 years old and I'd stack it up against a lot of much much newer systems for most stuff.
What's the difference between 2.65 and 2.5 seconds for something - - - I'd bet that I can't tell.

As an aside - - - the shuttle likely had a computer that is MUCH less featured than your oldest computer.
https://www.history.nasa.gov/computers/Ch4-3.html
As much as I espouse using some variant of *nix - - - - its not problem nor error free.
I just really have gotten to where I don't want to PAY for the privilege of being someone else's guinea pig!
(and oh yes have I wasted time learning and installing software that turned out to be blech! - - - programmers are a lot like used car salesmen imo (and like abstracts on papers!)

 

[metalmangler]

Windows was never designed with privacy or security in mind. All the bits that have been glued on since really haven't improved things that much.

Neither was the PC... It was one of IBM's big mistakes when they produced the first ones (along with "nobody will ever need more than 640 Kbytes of memory").
There were computers available at the time with actual hardware protection (e.g. CTL) - e.g. code goes there, static data goes there, dynamic data goes there, and the only thing the code could alter is its own dynamic data. I suspect that IBM didn't do the same because a) they assumed all users would be business users, not realising how the home computer market would blossom and b) it would have made the PC more expensive.

I'm stuck with the PC hardware, but for software I run Linux Mint and FireFox with Noscript and Ghostery.

 

[trlvn]

The problem with Apple and also Linux is that a big part of my use is the 2D cad program that I still use for my hobby will only run on Windows. I have never used an iPad but I have done a little bit of experimenting with Linux and the cad program will run but not well. That is not only my limited experience but several others have also tried.

You didn't mention CAD in the post I responded to. In case others are wondering, there are CAD options for the iPad such as Fusion 360:

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/fusion-360/id991074843?platform=ipad
and others:

https://www.scan2cad.com/blog/cad/cad-ipad-apps/
Of course for this kind of work, someone would most likely want an iPad Pro with Pencil so that increases the cost.

Craig

 

[awake]

The problem with Apple and also Linux is that a big part of my use is the 2D cad program that I still use for my hobby will only run on Windows.

Gordon, what CAD program are you running?

 

[Gordon]

Gordon, what CAD program are you running?

I am using Visual Cad. I have been using it for 20 years and every time I try the new 3D programs I just give up and keep using what I am used to using.

 

[awake]

I am using Visual Cad. I have been using it for 20 years and every time I try the new 3D programs I just give up and keep using what I am used to using.

It is hard to transition. I still have an ancient copy of TurboCAD that I run (using WINE in Linux - runs just fine), and for a long time I would turn back to that for any 2d CAD. Over time, I began to experiment with LibreCAD, which uses a very different approach (I've heard it is more like AutoCAD - ???) ... and somewhere along the way, I discovered that I no longer remember how to use TurboCAD without some effort, so now I only use TC when I need to pull up an old file.

I've never used VisualCAD, so don't know what sort of approach it takes to the CAD experience ...

 

[Gordon]

Visual Cad started out as Generic Cadd until Autodesk bought it and killed it because it was too successful. It basically uses a drafting approach. Most things can be done with a two letter command. ie: c2=Circle, DL=linear dimension, a2=arc, po=point etc. Things can be entered as coordinates. Snap to something and enter 3,2 and you are 3" in X direction and 2" in Y direction. Snap to a point and enter c2 then enter .75 and you have a circle with .75 radius. It does not take long to memorize all of the common commands.

 

[awake]

Visual Cad started out as Generic Cadd until Autodesk bought it and killed it because it was too successful. It basically uses a drafting approach. Most things can be done with a two letter command. ie: c2=Circle, DL=linear dimension, a2=arc, po=point etc. Things can be entered as coordinates. Snap to something and enter 3,2 and you are 3" in X direction and 2" in Y direction. Snap to a point and enter c2 then enter .75 and you have a circle with .75 radius. It does not take long to memorize all of the common commands.

Hmm ... you *might* find LibreCAD comfortable. It allows one to draw with the mouse, but it is really better using the "command line." Instead of two letter commands, most commands are single letter - c for circle, r for rectangle, etc. You can also mix and match using the mouse and the keyboard - set the center of the circle using the mouse, then specify the radius with the keyboard.

All that said, since I have not used VisualCAD, it is entirely possible that the similarity is much less than I am thinking it is ... !

 

[Gordon]

Hmm ... you *might* find LibreCAD comfortable. It allows one to draw with the mouse, but it is really better using the "command line." Instead of two letter commands, most commands are single letter - c for circle, r for rectangle, etc. You can also mix and match using the mouse and the keyboard - set the center of the circle using the mouse, then specify the radius with the keyboard.

All that said, since I have not used VisualCAD, it is entirely possible that the similarity is much less than I am thinking it is ... !

Since I have used Visual Cad for 20 years and I am comfortable with it there is really no reason to change to something else. The program is updated on a regular basis so it stays current. I owned and operated a business where I designed and built special material handling equipment so I used the cad program a lot so it still feels comfortable. I can remember most of the commands without looking them up and I can also use the menu/mouse for the less frequent commands. I use it a lot to check parts as I make them. If I want to know how far to move the cutter I can just measure it in the program. Want to know if two parts fit together select one and move it to match the other part.