Attempting Gordon Nano

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Mechanicboy

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Can you tell me if you used high Ether percentage fuel?
High ether percentage = increased cetane number in fuel (better auto ignition). It means the tiny model diesel engine make it easier to start up and run. Hence the tiny model diesel engine do not generate so much heat of compression as the large model diesel engine can do it when starting the tiny model diesel engine. Here are the article about Nano 0,1 cc where it's wrote here: "Also, the fuel for mini diesels needs a lot of ether - as high as 50% by volume". in this link Building The "Nano" Miniture IC CI Model Engine

You can get the ether from John Deere start fluid, remove the propelant gas before empty ether in the sealed bootle to later use to example mix own fuel.
 
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rklopp

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I think 35% ether ought to make it go if all else is right, but it can't hurt to kick in extra. I vaguely recall adding extra in the form of Napa starting fluid. Alas, I did a bad job with notes. I recall being quite frustrated until I dared to try a weak, homemade electric starter. I tried the spring in the plans, but all that did was knock the carburetors loose and mark up the propellers. I set the engines aside for several months before I tried the electric motor, which I swiped out of some toy. My motor is weak enough that it cannot overcome a hydro-lock, which helps protect the conrod. I also recall needing less contrapiston compression than I though would be needed. Good luck! You'll get there.
 

creast

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High ether percentage = increased cetane number in fuel (better auto ignition). It means the tiny model diesel engine make it easier to start up and run. Hence the tiny model diesel engine do not generate so much heat of compression as the large model diesel engine can do it when starting the tiny model diesel engine. Here are the article about Nano 0,1 cc where it's wrote here: "Also, the fuel for mini diesels needs a lot of ether - as high as 50% by volume". in this link Building The "Nano" Miniture IC CI Model Engine

You can get the ether from John Deere start fluid, remove the propelant gas before empty ether in the sealed bootle to later use to example mix own fuel.
Thanks Jens,
It does appear that in one way or another I need more Ether than I have in the present fuel so the search is on for either better fuel, Ether or Ether via starting fluid.
The John Deere fluid looks ideal at 80% but difficult to get here.
I will endeavour to find a solutio,
Many thanks for your input
Rich
 

creast

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I think 35% ether ought to make it go if all else is right, but it can't hurt to kick in extra. I vaguely recall adding extra in the form of Napa starting fluid. Alas, I did a bad job with notes. I recall being quite frustrated until I dared to try a weak, homemade electric starter. I tried the spring in the plans, but all that did was knock the carburetors loose and mark up the propellers. I set the engines aside for several months before I tried the electric motor, which I swiped out of some toy. My motor is weak enough that it cannot overcome a hydro-lock, which helps protect the conrod. I also recall needing less contrapiston compression than I though would be needed. Good luck! You'll get there.
Hi Rich,
I too have resorted to using my starter with a rubber tube connected which slips if there is lockup but on this last re-build I am holding back until I have better fuel, one way or another.
I have almost finished the revised spraybar which is rather 'twee' being the 0.070" diameter you quoted. I have resorted to bonding a 0.027" dia sewing needle into the adjuster and hope my arrangement works ok.
Thanks for your assistance and encouragement
Rich
 

Richard Hed

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Thanks for that. I am suspicious of my jet to needle alignment plus I also made the screw slightly short so I was going to re-make the parts.
Perhaps I will try the conventional spraybar solution you suggest.
Can you tell me if you used high Ether percentage fuel?
If I really need that then its going to be a wait to get some or pay over top for some to try. Currently 35% Ether fuel available by post is £15 / litre but it's £11 courier charge!
Can't you just buy ether? and add it?
 

creast

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Can't you just buy ether? and add it?
That's the problem... buying it.
Ether is a controlled chemical and is very difficult to buy here in UK (and most of western world).
A previous post linked to an Ebay shop offer but £40 for 250ml is way too steep.
Even buying fuel ready mixed is a problem here. You buy glow fuel no problem but 'diesel' is a different matter. Most suppliers only allow collection and will not courier Ether based fuels.
Rich
 

creast

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Add more ether can make oil percentage less in fuel who are not good for the engine. Best to mix new fuel.
Jens,
You can add and adjust the balance ratio as necessary, its just a case of math. :)
Rich
 

Tim Wescott

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This wouldn't explain the inability to fire on prime only, i.e a short brrrurrp.
Well, actually, I've seen engines with crankcase leaks that just give a single "pop" and then nothing.

The "brrurrp" is running off of fuel in the crankcase, that is pushed into the cylinder along with air. If the crankcase seal is poor enough, you'll fire off whatever fuel/air is in the cylinder, and it'll never refill.
 

creast

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Well, actually, I've seen engines with crankcase leaks that just give a single "pop" and then nothing.

The "brrurrp" is running off of fuel in the crankcase, that is pushed into the cylinder along with air. If the crankcase seal is poor enough, you'll fire off whatever fuel/air is in the cylinder, and it'll never refill.
Hi Tim,
Yes, you are correct.
I had several pops during driving with my safe starter motor and since then I have discovered the transfer ports are only just being exposed.
I have now made a new cylinder which certainly allows scavenging and I have paid attention to the crankcase seals at cylinder and back plug and it does breath better.
I don't intend to keep trying on this setup until I have a higher Ether fuel available for testing to give me the best chance of success as I have reached desperation point :)
Rich
 

Tim Wescott

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Best of luck finding your ether. Around here (US) John Deere starting fluid is available at farm stores fairly easily -- y'all have the same problems with illegal drug manufacture as we do, but you also have farmers with tractors, so there should be something.
 

creast

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Best of luck finding your ether. Around here (US) John Deere starting fluid is available at farm stores fairly easily -- y'all have the same problems with illegal drug manufacture as we do, but you also have farmers with tractors, so there should be something.
There is a John Deere starting fluid over here but it has a different part code to the 80% version you can get in US and I cannot find an MSDS note for it which covers the Ether percentage so it may be a lower spec fluid like our auto versions which vary from 10 to 40% if you are lucky. I tried a Holts version as commented earlier without success.
I will contact John Deere UK for data this week.
Now, people may cringe at this, and the safety nazis jump on me but I am considering distilling the Ether out of this low grade fluid.
It's a simple process and is very low heat, approx 40 to 70 degC.
Obviously I will be taking precautions on safety.
Rich
 

teeleevs

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Your engine looks great hope you succeed in getting it running
 

Tim Wescott

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... but I am considering distilling the Ether out of this low grade fluid.
It's a simple process and is very low heat, approx 40 to 70 degC.
...
We shall monitor the obits to track your progress.

I laugh -- but I'd do that too. In my back yard, as far from any trees as possible, with an electric hot plate (so no open flame), in small amounts, and generally taking great care.
 

Cogsy

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You're a long way from the auto ignition temperature so that should be fine - but the stoichiometry ratio for explosive combustion is huge for ether so be very careful you don't have any sparks! The druggies manage (mostly) to boil the ether away without blowing themselves up all that often so you've got a good shot at it.
 

iant

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Hi Rich, Ether is available in the UK. The model plane clubs have access to suppliers. Where in the UK are you? I may be able to put you in touch with someone who can help you get some.
Ian
 

Richard Hed

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I'm not sure you could do this, but if you can get an enclosed vacuum set up, you could vacuum it out at virtually room temp--you needs an ice bath of some sort for your cooling coils.
 

creast

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Hi Rich, Ether is available in the UK. The model plane clubs have access to suppliers. Where in the UK are you? I may be able to put you in touch with someone who can help you get some.
Ian
Hi Ian,
That's very kind of you.
I am near Coalville in Leicestershire.
Ether to boost my fuel or high ether fuel mix is what I need to confirm if this darn engine will run but I only need a very small amount.
I have tried extraction from starter fluid but I am not convinced what I have distilled is ether or ether plus heptane.
It does smell like ether and evaporates like no business but I cant say that adding to my present mix has made a marked difference.
It ran on my DC Spitfire and the Clan started but no easier than my 30% mix but nothing from the Nano at all.
To be honest I may put this engine aside a while as it is getting wearing to say the least :)
Rich
 
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