Arc welding
- Thread starter firebird
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And a flapdisk. :big:
Tin Falcon
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words of wisdom:
Make sure your words are soft and sweet lets you have to eat them.
make sure you welds are small and neat lest you have to grind them.
Seriously though a 4 1/2 inch grinder is a must have companion to a welder. can be used for cleaning metal be fore and after welding . Making cuts in light metal , prepping welds , cutting off temp welds tacks ,grinding welds flush, and last but not least cleaning up mistakes and boo boos. several .040 or .0625(1/16 cut off wheels a hard grind wheel and a soft pads or flap wheel.
I earned a living albeit a bit meager in a steel fabrication shop for about a year. lots of IIRC 1 1/12 pipe welded to a 3/8 x 4" square plate. We welded 10s of thousands of those things. went though lots of wire all MIG and stargon gas. The customer though we had a robot doing the welds because" no human could weld that smooth and that fast. " There are ways my friend. The best welds are the ones no one has to grind. when you only have a minute a part to set up and weld there is no time to grind.
Tin
Make sure your words are soft and sweet lets you have to eat them.
make sure you welds are small and neat lest you have to grind them.
Seriously though a 4 1/2 inch grinder is a must have companion to a welder. can be used for cleaning metal be fore and after welding . Making cuts in light metal , prepping welds , cutting off temp welds tacks ,grinding welds flush, and last but not least cleaning up mistakes and boo boos. several .040 or .0625(1/16 cut off wheels a hard grind wheel and a soft pads or flap wheel.
I earned a living albeit a bit meager in a steel fabrication shop for about a year. lots of IIRC 1 1/12 pipe welded to a 3/8 x 4" square plate. We welded 10s of thousands of those things. went though lots of wire all MIG and stargon gas. The customer though we had a robot doing the welds because" no human could weld that smooth and that fast. " There are ways my friend. The best welds are the ones no one has to grind. when you only have a minute a part to set up and weld there is no time to grind.
Tin
Hi
This thread is turning out to be a real mine of information, keep it coming gents.
Dean, I'll send the seller a question and see what comes back.
I have an angle grinder with various types of discs already. I also bought (from Aldi) quite a while ago a leather welding apron and gauntlets. They used to sell arc welders but haven't had any in for quite a while now hence I am looking elsewhere. I'm not in any rush I just want one. You know what its like, got a workshop, must fill it with kit and gadgets :big: :big: :big:
Cheers
Rich
Ps
Speaking of workshops I've been on the roof of mine all day fixing the roof. I'll post a couple of pictures over in the workshop section.
This thread is turning out to be a real mine of information, keep it coming gents.
Dean, I'll send the seller a question and see what comes back.
I have an angle grinder with various types of discs already. I also bought (from Aldi) quite a while ago a leather welding apron and gauntlets. They used to sell arc welders but haven't had any in for quite a while now hence I am looking elsewhere. I'm not in any rush I just want one. You know what its like, got a workshop, must fill it with kit and gadgets :big: :big: :big:
Cheers
Rich
Ps
Speaking of workshops I've been on the roof of mine all day fixing the roof. I'll post a couple of pictures over in the workshop section.
Tin Falcon
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if you are talking about DC welding that is not horrible. IIRC typical of the old standby Lincoln stick welders.
Like you said lots to think about. there are still lots of the old transformer technology welders out there and still being sold and made. Many a ship have been built with these. It is tried and true technology. The down side is generally low duty cycles low efficiency and heavy bulky machines. In spite of the rise in copper prices these units are still cheaper than the newer inverters.
the new inverter technology you have a welder in some cases the size of a loaf of bread or a bread box. These are much more efficient and not unusual to have 100% duty cycle at mid range amperage.
Personally I would be a bit leary of a welder without a decent spec sheet telling you duty cycle at several settings, at last low end mid range and top.
if I could afford it this is a great welder.
http://content.lincolnelectric.com/pdfs/products/literature/e3110.pdf
in reality at this moment this is much more affordable
http://www.harborfreight.com/tig-mma-inverter-welding-machine-with-digital-readout-98233.html
$350 us plus regulator fittings and gas bottle. but you can start with stick without all the extras. 100% @ 140 30% @160 amps not too shabby. probably over rated but still very usable.
just some things to think about in reality there have been many farmers over the yars that relied on an old lincoln buzz box to doo the welding. while not fancy or the one you are looking at will weld.
Tin
Like you said lots to think about. there are still lots of the old transformer technology welders out there and still being sold and made. Many a ship have been built with these. It is tried and true technology. The down side is generally low duty cycles low efficiency and heavy bulky machines. In spite of the rise in copper prices these units are still cheaper than the newer inverters.
the new inverter technology you have a welder in some cases the size of a loaf of bread or a bread box. These are much more efficient and not unusual to have 100% duty cycle at mid range amperage.
Personally I would be a bit leary of a welder without a decent spec sheet telling you duty cycle at several settings, at last low end mid range and top.
if I could afford it this is a great welder.
http://content.lincolnelectric.com/pdfs/products/literature/e3110.pdf
in reality at this moment this is much more affordable
http://www.harborfreight.com/tig-mma-inverter-welding-machine-with-digital-readout-98233.html
$350 us plus regulator fittings and gas bottle. but you can start with stick without all the extras. 100% @ 140 30% @160 amps not too shabby. probably over rated but still very usable.
just some things to think about in reality there have been many farmers over the yars that relied on an old lincoln buzz box to doo the welding. while not fancy or the one you are looking at will weld.
Tin
firebird said:
Well, maybe. For the size of the one you're looking at, that's not really great. It's only 140 amps to
begin with, and if you want to weld with something like 1/8" 70xx rod, it's going to be shutting down
every couple of minutes.
The duty cycle does go up when you use lower amperage, so if you think you can weld down at the
bottom of the amp tap on that one, it may a few minutes or so before it gets hot.
One of my machines is an older Lincoln tombstone welder, like the kind Tin has mentioned. It has a
20% duty cycle too, but that is at 225 amps. At 70 amps, it's 100% and at 125 amps is about 70%.
I don't mean you should get a Lincoln. They are still a good price here, but would probably be a lot
there, 'cause they're fairly heavy. You might look around a little more to see if you can find a model
that will give about 50% at a usable amperage. Something that will run 1/8" rod for five minutes at a
stretch, or 3/32" rod for a bit longer than that. Then you will be able to sit down and get some practice
in without the machine constantly shutting off.
I wish you could get something British or European made with a good spec. I wouldn't buy any of the
Chinese ones. I've used two of those and have nothing good to say about them. They get hot fast, and
take a long time to cool down. The truth is they simply lie about the duty cycle.
I know some products in certain countries are simply more expensive than elsewhere. You may have
to take what is available.
Dean
Don't forget anything much over 150A you won't be able to run of a 13amp household plugtop when on full power
Jason
Jason
Hi
Thanks gents.
Don't ya just love John S. answer. He don't mince his words doe's he. :big: :big: :big:
Like I said I'm in no rush so I'll keep an eye on e bay and come back to you all if I spot something.
Cheers
Rich
Thanks gents.
Don't ya just love John S. answer. He don't mince his words doe's he. :big: :big: :big:
Like I said I'm in no rush so I'll keep an eye on e bay and come back to you all if I spot something.
Cheers
Rich
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So there ya go Rich. Just like I said..... :big: Opinions all over the place.
When I started welding a few years back I wanted to go the inexpensive route too, naturally. But it's like car shopping online; I gotta have cruise control and I gotta have power mirrors...by the time you come with the "gotta haves" it always winds up costing you more than you thought or hoped it would.
It took me so long to find exactly what I wanted at a cheap price that my monthly allowance (thanks Honey!) kept adding up to where I eventually had enough to just go out and buy a new Millermatic 180. I never looked back.
-Trout
When I started welding a few years back I wanted to go the inexpensive route too, naturally. But it's like car shopping online; I gotta have cruise control and I gotta have power mirrors...by the time you come with the "gotta haves" it always winds up costing you more than you thought or hoped it would.
It took me so long to find exactly what I wanted at a cheap price that my monthly allowance (thanks Honey!) kept adding up to where I eventually had enough to just go out and buy a new Millermatic 180. I never looked back.
-Trout
Hi
Speaking to a mate of mine in the car body/chassis repair business today. He uses a mig for all his work but still has a cheap stick welder for the odd job. He has drilled extra vent holes in the casing and fitted an extra fan which he claims has dramatically improved the performance of the machine. Any thoughts on this???
Cheers
Rich
Speaking to a mate of mine in the car body/chassis repair business today. He uses a mig for all his work but still has a cheap stick welder for the odd job. He has drilled extra vent holes in the casing and fitted an extra fan which he claims has dramatically improved the performance of the machine. Any thoughts on this???
Cheers
Rich
tel
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My stick welder was a relatively cheap Abel Arc air cooled job, 130 amps top, I've done none of that but I've thrown a lot of work at it over the years, including some pretty heavy stuff, and, apart from being on it's 4th electrode holder, it has given me no trouble at all. July 1976 to now is, I think, a fair test - still going as good as the day I bought it.
Hi
It sounds as though an extra fan might improve things then. Problem is, if I buy a new unit I can't start modifying it or I will invalidate the warranty.
For the small amount of welding I anticipate doing it looks like I might bite the bullet and buy one of the cheaper welders. I'll have a look around and see what falls within the budget and come back to you.
Cheers
Rich
It sounds as though an extra fan might improve things then. Problem is, if I buy a new unit I can't start modifying it or I will invalidate the warranty.
For the small amount of welding I anticipate doing it looks like I might bite the bullet and buy one of the cheaper welders. I'll have a look around and see what falls within the budget and come back to you.
Cheers
Rich
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You know, I've been wondering about this fan business. Maybe the fan will keep the transformer cooler and keep the system from cycling down but hear me out: In my line of work we worry about junction temperatures. This is the area where the heat originates from and then spreads out into a heat sink or mother board. If this temperature is too high, the metal at that joint will fatigue faster than it ordinarily would as it heats up and cools down (powers up and down). It's the same process as when you bend a piece of metal back and forth numerous times to where it eventually breaks due to metal fatigue. It's the heating up and cooling down that breaks the metal, not your superhuman strength. When solid state components like transistors and IC's break, this is also usually the cause.
I'm thinking you may be able keep the ambient temperature down inside your arc welder but too much heat at the source will shorten the life of the components, i.e. transformer.
Just a theory.
I'm thinking you may be able keep the ambient temperature down inside your arc welder but too much heat at the source will shorten the life of the components, i.e. transformer.
Just a theory.
Troutsqueezer said:
You sure know how to take the fire out of a guy, don'tcha Dennis? It's my manly strength, I tell you!
Really, I don't know about the things that Dennis mentioned, but I think if you want a welder
that welds longer straight periods, buy one rated for it!
Dean
Hi
That makes sense, I'll keep away from the mods. I'm picking up on what Tel has said about his cheapo welder that its ok for what he doe's. My mate Julian also has a cheap welder that he has owned for over 25 years and still going strong. It welds what he wants on occasions he needs to weld. Now I'm not saying the weld is very pretty or that he could weld all day with it but it doe's what he needs to get done. I have paid heed to what some of the learned members have been saying and I think I understand about duty cycles etc. but I think I will have to go for one of the cheapo's for now to keep within my budget. John S has given me the links to a couple of used ones on e bay but they are collection only which is a problem for me. Finally there is a possibility that Santa Clause might be treating me to a welder so as long as it isn't too dear I think I might be on to a winner. ;D ;D ;D
Cheers
Rich
That makes sense, I'll keep away from the mods. I'm picking up on what Tel has said about his cheapo welder that its ok for what he doe's. My mate Julian also has a cheap welder that he has owned for over 25 years and still going strong. It welds what he wants on occasions he needs to weld. Now I'm not saying the weld is very pretty or that he could weld all day with it but it doe's what he needs to get done. I have paid heed to what some of the learned members have been saying and I think I understand about duty cycles etc. but I think I will have to go for one of the cheapo's for now to keep within my budget. John S has given me the links to a couple of used ones on e bay but they are collection only which is a problem for me. Finally there is a possibility that Santa Clause might be treating me to a welder so as long as it isn't too dear I think I might be on to a winner. ;D ;D ;D
Cheers
Rich
I received my cheap HF Dual MIG welder and completed my first project today. I installed elevated standoffs for the tail lights on my old boat trailer. Not the prettiest welds but they are definitely stuck on there good. The welder works well and does what it's supposed to.
