a samll rortary table by g.h. thomas

Discussion in 'Tools' started by dethrow55, Jan 14, 2020.

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  1. Jan 14, 2020 #1

    dethrow55

    dethrow55

    dethrow55

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    hello for all that maybe interested . i have been making a lotta my own tools for my lathe and mill sometimes difficult to find what i want. but thru much research and reading i find what i need. so for any one interested here is a small rotary table.by one of the greats.
     

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  2. Jan 14, 2020 #2

    awake

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    Given the extended discussion in another thread, I have to ask ... copyright?
     
  3. Jan 14, 2020 #3

    dethrow55

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    hello i dont think so because i found this on another web site model engine maker. no copyright issues there ? if there is remove it. james
     
  4. Jan 14, 2020 #4

    Cogsy

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    It appears this material is from a UK magazine published in 1976. UK copyright law is very different to US law and it appears a magazine is only protected for 25 years from the end of the year of publication. So it appears copyright for this material expired in 2002. Weirdly, if this material had come from a single author source (like a book) instead, copyright would be 70 years from the end of the year of the original authors' death. I'm glad I'm not a lawyer when even simple things like this can get so screwy.
     
  5. Jan 14, 2020 #5

    Charles Lamont

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    Where does it appear? I think you will most likely find this material is still copyright, but IANAL.

    dethrow55, the fact that you copied it from a site that had (very probably) broken the copyright does not excuse you from the orginal copyright.

    BTW, I have made one of these, and it is a very useful little tool.
     
  6. Jan 14, 2020 #6

    goldstar31

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    Actually my old mate and I were discussing GHT today as we both have made 'lots' of tools which George published in Model Engineer and then Dr W.A. (Bill) Bennett BDS( Dunelmn) included when he published GHT's many articles- initially in Model Engineers Workshop and latr embodies GHT's own books Dividing and Graduating and the Universal Pillar Tool.
    As far as copyright bis concerned, it is on the further publishing of the words and music and not making ONE for one's own use.

    I think that it would clear a mass of confusion- from people who cannot be minded to spend £30 or so but GHT's words are clear enough in the Appendix C- Pattern Drawings in 'Workshop Techniques' that- and legally I've copyright, too that GHT did not publish ¨ntil he was satisfied that castings were available but goes on - somewhat quixotically that he published detailed drawings for some castings for 'those people living in parts of the world far from us'
    There is an interesting slant in this because GHT had worked in the USA but had travelled to see Jack A Radford in New Zealand- and came back with Radford's drawings for the Myford Headstock Dividing Head- which he altered and published.

    Perhaps, I'm complicating things unduly but Radford also published a book on Improvements and Alterations to the Lathe- which was A Myford Super 7B which has been heavily modified to behave like a Murad Bormilathe. A Multi purchase machine!
    Today, my good friend Frazer Heslop and I were swopping experiences on whether I should buy a reconditioned Super 7 to replace my very aged one but I had got quite broody- like an old 'chuck' because I had found multi function machine tool/lathe called a Scope which is mentioned in lathes.co.uk but I doubt that there will another person on this site who will have the first clue about the machine.

    Any clearer? All THREE books are in print- if you doubt me

    Norm
     
  7. Jan 15, 2020 at 8:57 AM #7

    Cogsy

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    I'm also, very much not a lawyer, but from what I've read everywhere from Wikipedia to copyrightaid.co.uk basically says the same thing. From copyrightaid.co.uk : "in the UK, copyright in the actual typographical layout of the published editions only last for 25 years from the end of the year in which it was published. In other words reproducing the magazines by scanning them would not pose any problem" . Now I have interpreted this, quite possibly incorrectly, that this means the article in question is OK as regards copyright, but I definitely don't know for sure. I think this is how Google reproduces some magazines seemingly without regard to individual authors' copyrights. I'm certain that if this were being republished then the original authors' copyright would kick in, but simply sharing the out-of-copyright magazine MAY be ok. But obviously - my opinion is personal and does not constitute legal advice!
     
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  8. Jan 15, 2020 at 1:16 PM #8

    necchiom

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  9. Jan 15, 2020 at 2:06 PM #9

    dethrow55

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    hello it is from a magizine dated 1976. but also noticed hemingway kits sells these drawings and also guy laytard . so im wondering if someone bought the copyrights ? to late now haw.
     
  10. Jan 15, 2020 at 3:30 PM #10

    goldstar31

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    The original designer was George H Thomas but if you had bought the book, you would have been left in no doubt of the position of Kirk Burswell of Hemingwaykits in this matter. I am 100% positive of his rights in the matter.

    It would seem that your are unaware of the source of the 1976 drawings in your possession.
    The owners of this site should be aware of the possibility of breach of copyright and it is their discretion of how they they deal with your posting.


    Norman
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020 at 3:42 PM
  11. Jan 15, 2020 at 8:14 PM #11

    dethrow55

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    it seems it would be a good idea to remove it.
     
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  12. Jan 15, 2020 at 9:01 PM #12

    dethrow55

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    for anyone that wants to know where this came from : hobby machinist posted by "Restorer" jan.23.2015 . this whole thing has made me more cautious about coping drawings from any web site .
     
  13. Jan 16, 2020 at 12:37 AM #13

    sniffipn

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    Perhaps, I'm complicating things unduly but Radford also published a book on Improvements and Alterations to the Lathe- which was A Myford Super 7B which has been heavily modified to behave like a Murad Bormilathe. A Multi purchase machine!
    Today, my good friend Frazer Heslop and I were swopping experiences on whether I should buy a reconditioned Super 7 to replace my very aged one but I had got quite broody- like an old 'chuck' because I had found multi function machine tool/lathe called a Scope which is mentioned in lathes.co.uk but I doubt that there will another person on this site who will have the first clue about the machine.

    Any clearer? All THREE books are in print- if you doubt me

    Norm[/QUOTE]

    didn't 'triona' sell one recently
     
  14. Jan 16, 2020 at 1:47 AM #14

    dethrow55

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    that interesting but what does that have to do with this post?
     
  15. Jan 16, 2020 at 2:39 AM #15

    Cogsy

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    George H Thomas did design this and the original copyright on these plans is (probably) still intact and seems like it currently resides with a third party. This is correct (as far as I know).

    Norman, it would seem that it is you that is confused about the source of these exact plans.The images above are from a 1976, UK published magazine. The copyright owner of these plans, way back in 1976, allowed the publication of these plans in this magazine (possibly for reward, I have no way of knowing). Regardless, the copyright holder in 1976 allowed publication having known, or at least should have known, that under UK law copyright of the typographical layout of the magazine would expire in 25 years and the material published within could then be legally copied. If someone were to be making copies of the plan set from Hemingway Kits then they would (quite possibly) be breaching copyright but copying a magazine from over 25 years ago is legal under UK law.

    Not being a lawyer, I have no idea how much this affects the copyright of the original plans as there would seem to be an argument for the plans now existing in the 'public domain'.
     
  16. Jan 16, 2020 at 3:09 AM #16

    dethrow55

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    thank you cogsy. i just dont wanna violate anyones ownership. and now i know to be more cautious about down loading plans on other forums without questioning ownership. thanks james
     
  17. Jan 16, 2020 at 4:04 AM #17

    goldstar31

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    I agree it is difficult to determine the legality of things. However, and you must forgive me for old age and a raft of problems but the story is really contained in the two GHT books.
    Actually the major problem( to me) stems from the original failure of the company and the subsequent take over/buy out by Magicalia. Up to the then it was simply a few writers getting perhaps a small handout for their contribution or many like myself- doing it for the joy of the hobby. During the interval, many contributors were concerned with the failure of not only the company but the loss of information. It would seem that the late Jim Early had permission to copy and put it onto the 'net-- and perhaps CD's for little more than the cost of materials. The new takeover firm threatened legal action and the now offending stuff was removed.
    As I said, I was sort of involved and the then an editor of Model Engineer or Model Engineers Workshop wrote to me and perhaps others seeking help to find the contributors/ copyright holders. In other words, I assumed that at that time, despite the solicitors' threats they were lost. I'd been in contact with one author who had gone as far as producing a small bool on his Unimat(s). He was ex RAF like me, and we both had unimats then.
    He died, I had his book and had he lived he would have been almost 90!
    Again, I tried to trace 'Martin Cleeve' or correctly,, I had a copy of his patent application and knew of his death but finally gave up as hopeless. My wife's father was dead and my mother in law was under the Court of Protection- and my wife was ill and there were three houses as part of the estate without - a valid will and the solicitors were also 'in administration'

    George Thomas's affairs were far simpler. Some of this comes from Dr W A Bennett who was my wife;s classmate at UNI and the rest from GHT's books.
    GHT had published his two appendices to what was going to be his major work. He became( like most of us) ill and incapable( I'm under Enduring Powers of Attorney). However when he did die , all of his contributions to Model Engineer and his photographs were available. It seems that Neil Shackleton Hemmingway, the first proprietor of Hemmingwaykits had power to both sell GHT's workshop and to do what GHT intended that is to write his book. Bill Bennett took on the task helped by many friends and all his previous articles in Model Engineer were embodied i the two books. Before my wife's death, Bill turned up for the 50th Anniversary of Christine's attendance at Newcastle Dental School graduation onPalace Green, Durham. At the dinner, Bill told me that the royalties from the two books were still coming in. He was a retired dentist and principal of his own firm and the whole issue was 'Peanuts'. He was doing it as many others had done as a Labour of Love.
    Neil Hemingway has also died and Kirk Burswell has the business now. I spoke to Kirk about the Whereabouts of Bill and like me, he has no idea.
    As I have said, I'm slowly getting rd of my workshop. I sold two lathes which included a ML10 book a few days ago. Most of my books, records and whatever had to be pulped following the loss of my workshop roof around the time that my wife was dying and quite frankly what was contained or lost or destroyed was literally of no consequence. Most of what I had on my computer then was scrapped as I have been twice 'robbed'' and the theft of my bank details is still in the hands yet again with my bank and the police.

    So that is my account of things as of this morning------ however I understand that Copyright Law in England is for a vast more number of years and equally important, the foregoing information is also 'Copyright' for another 100 years.

    However, I hope that it is of some assistance to you. my thoughts- and they are my thoughts are that these Model Engineer's write up are embodied almost word for word in GHT's Model Engineer's Workshop Manual- under copyright as explained above.

    Regards

    Norman
     
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  18. Jan 16, 2020 at 4:12 AM #18

    goldstar31

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    James
    My sincerest apologies for such a long winded account but as you have spent such a long time to make part of the RT, you might be wise to buy GHT's book to 'finish off'. It may or may not be legal but it would show the degree of responsibility which you have willingly accepted and done your best to rectify
    Best Wishes
    Norman
     
  19. Jan 16, 2020 at 4:21 AM #19

    dethrow55

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    thank you norm very well put. let the chips fall were they may, and any corrections understood. i made a mistake by down loading this article and posting it here done.time to end this topic, thanks james
     
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  20. Jan 16, 2020 at 3:51 PM #20

    dethrow55

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    hello all i would like to apoligize to all that i may have offened or violated there rights.what i did was wrong! i cant change what i did.but i can ask for forgiveness.
     

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