10 Engines in 4 Hours by Non-Machinist Possible?

Discussion in 'General Engine Discussion' started by XxLT250rxX, Nov 16, 2018.

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  1. Nov 16, 2018 #1

    XxLT250rxX

    XxLT250rxX

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    Is it possible for 10 people with no machining experience to each make a functioning air engine in 4 to 6 hours? I teach precision machining at a community college and am going to do a "free class" to try to generate interest in the program/career. We have 5 manual milling machines and 5 manual lathes. We also have CNC machines as well but I want this to be a hands on class using manual machines. I will also be able to enlist the aide of 3 or 4 advanced students to help with the class. What engine/plans would you suggest? We can make jigs or fixtures ahead of time or pre-machine some parts if necessary. I want them to feel like they did it themselves and leave with a feeling of accomplishment. Comments on prints, safety, etc. welcome.
     
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  2. Nov 16, 2018 #2

    bazmak

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    I think you would be rushing them and its a bad idea from the learning and safety aspect
     
  3. Nov 16, 2018 #3

    XxLT250rxX

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    It’s not a learning class. It more of a demonstration for recruiting people into the program.
     
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  4. Nov 17, 2018 #4

    Barnbikes

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    Somewhere I saw a plans that used a syringe (cylinder and piston) it got pushed into an aluminum block that served as the pivot and valve. If you used a bent wire as your crank the only thing that would have to be machined would be flywheel, stand and aluminum block.
     
  5. Nov 17, 2018 #5

    stevehuckss396

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    I'm not sure that would be enough time for that kind of project. What about 10 people making one part and all come together to assemble one engine. With a single piece there would be minimal pressure from time. If it is a relaxed atmosphere you would have more returning people wanting to learn and the group could still see something for there labor before they go.
     
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  6. Nov 17, 2018 #6

    minh-thanh

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    You can try with the Oscillating Steam Engine.
     
  7. Nov 17, 2018 #7

    mohavegun

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    I worked in a production shop when I did my apprenticeship. The shop manufactured model airplane engines (FOX). There were about a dozen people running machines drilling & threading, honing and fitting parts. There were another dozen or so running screw machines making parts and then the assembly shop and finally the "run in shed" where they actually ran each engine before finally cleaning and packaging. Point is everything was orchestrated and the engines were on an assembly line progressing through the shop. I speculate that even in this environment where everyone knew and executed the job without being coaxed or having to constantly refer to prints it still took over an hour per engine... These engines were very simple, crankcase & crankshaft, back plate, piston and cylinder and cylinder head, glow plug, screws and fasteners. The castings were made in another shop but arrived at the plant I worked in as raw & in-machined. All other parts except screws and nuts were made in the building from raw materials. I don't know how you could expect to lead inexperienced people through such processes in 4 hours even if everything was set up and all they had to do is put the part on the machine and make the cut before moving on to the next... Good luck!
     
  8. Nov 17, 2018 #8

    minh-thanh

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    Sorry !!
    With people with no machining experience: Guide them to do an Oscillating Steam Engine, stirring engine with simple materials
    example: make stirling engine with can..
     
  9. Nov 17, 2018 #9

    ShopShoe

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    My Two Cents:

    You might get some participants with interest and experience who could work well, but you would probably also get some with no idea of where to start with any part of the process. From actual teachers in industrial tech ("shop," as we knew it years ago) I have heard of students who can't read a ruler, let alone grasp the concept of a micrometer or calipers reading in thousandths. I also think safety concerns might make this a difficult thing to accomplish.

    I think the concept seems good, but maybe a simpler product with fewer parts, maybe made by CNC, then provided for finish and assembly.

    --ShopShoe
     
  10. Nov 17, 2018 #10

    neil_1821

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    I honestly don’t think it would be possible for people who have no experience. You’d have to teach them how to safely operate the machines, change cutters, climb milling vs conventional milling, speeds and feeds, tolerances etc

    There’s an awful lot to learn especially if you want a working air engine. Even with years of experience some projects take a lot of trouble shooting unless it’s a very simple design with minimal moving parts.
     
  11. Nov 18, 2018 #11

    marvin hedberg

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    from the Rollag show web site https://rollag.com/about/attractions/
    "One of the featured attractions in this building is the Kid’s Class started by Mr Jerry Swedberg with the help of many others. It is a great opportunity to get our youth (ages 10-17) involved in the hobby and teach them valuable skills. They will safely learn how to perform some basic machining skills such as using a drill press and similar tools under the supervision of experienced Members of WMSTR. There is no cost for this event, but you must sign up early to get involved! The event is about 2-3 hours, taking place Friday and Saturday morning of our show at 9am. When completed, the attendees will get to take home their own ‘wobbler’ air powered ‘engine’ There have been over 260 engines built at our show, and the interest has spread from our show, thru Wisconsin and out to the East Coast. If you are interested, You may call 218-937-5404."

    Sawmills
     
  12. Nov 18, 2018 #12

    10thumbs

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    It really all depends on the engine's design. People with more experience are naturally drawn to more challenging projects, but there are a plethora of designs created for (and by) the inexperienced.
     
  13. Nov 18, 2018 #13

    mohavegun

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    I assume that if you had 10 people, 10 machines and 10 beginners you could walk them through 10 processes in four hours but I still think it would be a stretch...
     
  14. Nov 18, 2018 #14

    Trextr7monkey

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    Hi I have just retired after teaching Design Technology for a long time in a secondary school which involved basic turning and many other craft skills.
    I agree with many of the comments above particularly those relating to safety and the speed of production/ induction so I would suggest a more humble project which would give the students a useful experience and a complete project.
    I think a taper turned cannon on a carriage with either turned or milled wheels would fit better into the time frame. A quick demo individual experience and the awareness that there is much more that is possible should they elect to sign up for more would be my approach.
    Good luck and stay safe!
     
  15. Nov 18, 2018 #15

    lennardhme

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    What about a put put boat.? Easy to make a working model & no machinery ( where I can foresee disaster under the circumstances described) but still hands on.
    Good luck & congrats on the initiative.
    Lennard
     
  16. Nov 19, 2018 #16

    XxLT250rxX

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    This is not the first time I have done these recruiting classes. In the past I have always done CNC projects. The potential students are walked through the process from start to finish. They are given a simple blueprint and walked through the programming process using MasterCam. Programs are not written by hand because of the time factor and potential for disaster. They they think they are are uploading their program and executing it when in fact they are running a previously proofed program. These classes have been a big hit. I wanted to try a manual class this time. I thought about a cannon but the cannon prints I have are more parts and details than I think I can pull off in a couple nights. The ones I might be able to pull off are very simple and not very nice. During the last class I brought out an air engine built by students. It was a big hit. I was thinking maybe I could find a really simple one and have 80% of the machining already done? Basically 80% kits and use drilling jigs with hardened drill bushing to drill the holes. Similar to finishing and 80% AR15 lower. This could be done with a drill press or even a hand drill. They could hand tap any threaded holes. One member sent me the print for a pretty simple engine that I may be able to use. Thanks Jon.
     
  17. Nov 19, 2018 #17

    XxLT250rxX

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    WOW not sure how I missed this. I will contact them. Thanks Marvin!
     
  18. Nov 19, 2018 #18

    marvin hedberg

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  19. Nov 20, 2018 #19

    Hopper

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    I don't know for sure that I could make a working oscillating engine in four hours, and I've been doing this stuff for 45+ years. Big ask for a beginner.

    I reckon I spent more than four hours making Myfordboy's Stirling engine out of a sweets tin but I was not in the best of health at the time and did it in small increments, so hard to say for sure. And it's not a machining project per se.

    But it might be possible to do the oscillating engine if the materials were pre-cut to size, perhaps the flat was already machined on the side of the round cylinder blank, and drill jigs were pre-made to facilitate drilling of the steam ports and drill and ream the crankshaft holes etc. In other words, the model is partly made and students do the finish machining, eg drill and ream the cylinder bore and then turn a piston to fit it. (PS, just read your post where you talk about this. Doh! But I think that is the way to go. )
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2018
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  20. Nov 20, 2018 #20

    marvin hedberg

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    yup, that's how they do the class at Rollag.
     

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