1/2 inch by 11 thread bolt ????

[Richard Hed]

Oh, God, I am going to kill myself. That is how gorillas grow by sukking up the smaller companies and thus reducing competition. That really suks to find that out. Thanx for letting us know. I'm going to Alibris. Makes you wonder if our government knows the definition of "monopoly"
[/QUOTE]

Hi Richard

Don't do that, they're not worth it!!!

Be safe
TerryD
[/QUOTE]
OK, you've convinced me. I'll stay alive just in order to buy books from smaller stores. I buy a LOT of books which include basic topics such as machining, steam engines, telescope making (anybody make telescopes here?), and Ulysses Grant and Civil War stuff. and actually quite a few other subjects too but in smaller amounts.

 

[lkrestorer]

I see this post has evolved from threads to books but I have a thread question. Does anyone use Acorn dies in their hobby work? I stumbled across them on Ebay and impulsively bought a couple 5-40 size just because I wanted to try them out. The dies were inexpensive but the holders are a larger investment. There is a company or two still making them but it almost looks like a special order situation. They do pop up on Ebay frequently

They worked so well that I have built a fairly comprehensive collection (from 1-80 to 1/2-20 with 1/8" and 1/4" pipe dies thrown in for good measure). I have to admit that I'm not an expert on their original purposes but they were apparently used in the older (before CNC) screw machines. Also, they are supposed to be easily sharpened with a stone in a Dremel tool (I haven't tried that yet). I have seen listings for some very unusual sizes - like 1/4-100.

I use them by mounting the holder in a drill chuck in the lathe tailstock and run the lathe at it's slowest speed. They are very good at self-centering as the holders are not totally rigid and have sliding parts designed to be self-releasing at the end of the thread length that you choose. All of mine cut extremely well and are adjustable for thread depth with a wrench on the holder - very quick and easy. The operation is much simpler than using "normal" round dies.

 

[Richard Hed]

Hi William,

I ditched Google and most of the other common search engines due to lack of privacy and data collection. I now use DuckDuckGo and it is an excellent open-source search engine that claims not to collect data. Anyway, DuckDuckGo has a switch on its search page which allows me to choose UK sources only or international sources. There is also a drop-down list (small arrow head nest to switch so that you can choose All regions or individual countries, most useful - and it's free. Here's a part screenshot

View attachment 117166

Best regards

TerryD

tHEre's another reason I don't use anything that collects info: I want to get MY share of revenues!

 

[Richard Hed]

I see this post has evolved from threads to books but I have a thread question. Does anyone use Acorn dies in their hobby work? I stumbled across them on Ebay and impulsively bought a couple 5-40 size just because I wanted to try them out. The dies were inexpensive but the holders are a larger investment. There is a company or two still making them but it almost looks like a special order situation. They do pop up on Ebay frequently

They worked so well that I have built a fairly comprehensive collection (from 1-80 to 1/2-20 with 1/8" and 1/4" pipe dies thrown in for good measure). I have to admit that I'm not an expert on their original purposes but they were apparently used in the older (before CNC) screw machines. Also, they are supposed to be easily sharpened with a stone in a Dremel tool (I haven't tried that yet). I have seen listings for some very unusual sizes - like 1/4-100.

I use them by mounting the holder in a drill chuck in the lathe tailstock and run the lathe at it's slowest speed. They are very good at self-centering as the holders are not totally rigid and have sliding parts designed to be self-releasing at the end of the thread length that you choose. All of mine cut extremely well and are adjustable for thread depth with a wrench on the holder - very quick and easy. The operation is much simpler than using "normal" round dies.
View attachment 117196

I can see this quite well but my mind cannot fathom it. I have never seen this before. I can't even imagine how it works. Maybe because the threads this cuts are small? what does the cutting?

 

[elcid]

I've ditched Google for most of the time through the use of the Host file, trouble is that you don't realise how much google has infiltrated the internet today, there are far to many websites that rely on nothing but google's software so I have to revert to the basic host file to some access websites/information and using Google or the likes of Bing searching for information throws up page after page of advertising something that I don't think the web was originally design for., even Linux and my raspberry PI has been infiltrated by Google's all consuming goal of domination.
Amazon's prices have shot up of late, while Ebay and Gumtree are trying to reinvent themselves before i's too late.
For me it's back to my books or buying new books, even my TV's had a splash a screen telling me that a lot of it's functionality would be impeded if I didn't agree to their new security and data/voice collection terms.
Where is it going? full CCTV coverage with facial recognition is on it way here in Scotland by 2025 and deployable cctv, drones for local councils and the police. Big Brother helped by Google and Facebook.
Best thing though is with the shed door closed I'm in my own world.

 

[lkrestorer]

I can see this quite well but my mind cannot fathom it. I have never seen this before. I can't even imagine how it works. Maybe because the threads this cuts are small? what does the cutting?

The two components at the bottom of the picture are the Acorn dies. They mount in the nose of the holder above them. This assembly "attacks" the rod to be threaded head-on. Each of the four segments you see in the lower left of the picture has internal threads that do the cutting. They are not just for cutting small threads. I've seen them advertised to cut threads well over 1".

In hind sight I should probably take my question and start a new post so that it will be a question on it's own.

 

[Richard Hed]

The two components at the bottom of the picture are the Acorn dies. They mount in the nose of the holder above them. This assembly "attacks" the rod to be threaded head-on. Each of the four segments you see in the lower left of the picture has internal threads that do the cutting. They are not just for cutting small threads. I've seen them advertised to cut threads well over 1".

In hind sight I should probably take my question and start a new post so that it will be a question on it's own.

Part why I am so confused is this LOOKS like copper. It must be something else. On the "acorn" on the left, with the four casellations, there must be a hole in the middle? Is that right? Then the rod being threaded into the hole (obviously), it's just that I cannot tell from this photo. If this works so well, how come it is not in production any more? someone else made something that overwhelmed it in production or cost ?

 

[Richard Hed]

I've ditched Google for most of the time through the use of the Host file, trouble is that you don't realise how much google has infiltrated the internet today, there are far to many websites that rely on nothing but google's software so I have to revert to the basic host file to some access websites/information and using Google or the likes of Bing searching for information throws up page after page of advertising something that I don't think the web was originally design for., even Linux and my raspberry PI has been infiltrated by Google's all consuming goal of domination.
Amazon's prices have shot up of late, while Ebay and Gumtree are trying to reinvent themselves before i's too late.
For me it's back to my books or buying new books, even my TV's had a splash a screen telling me that a lot of it's functionality would be impeded if I didn't agree to their new security and data/voice collection terms.
Where is it going? full CCTV coverage with facial recognition is on it way here in Scotland by 2025 and deployable cctv, drones for local councils and the police. Big Brother helped by Google and Facebook.
Best thing though is with the shed door closed I'm in my own world.

Don't get me wound up on this, it is far worse than soviet or nazi techniques of spying on you--the soviets used fear to keep their citizens in line, the nazis used hate and torture so what is the "modern" west doing? Fear they will take away your freedom to shop? It ALWAYS boils up to $$$$--ALWAYS. ANd Yes, I have bought some product in which, having already paid for it, and being non returnable, I find that if I don't agree to their illegal use of terms, the machine will not work. (Try using a microsux product without agreeing--even when you already paid for it and cannot return it!)

 

[lkrestorer]

Part why I am so confused is this LOOKS like copper. It must be something else. On the "acorn" on the left, with the four casellations, there must be a hole in the middle? Is that right? Then the rod being threaded into the hole (obviously), it's just that I cannot tell from this photo. If this works so well, how come it is not in production any more? someone else made something that overwhelmed it in production or cost ?

Click on the picture to get the full page enlarged view. The copper color is due to the lighting and my phone camera. And, yes, that is part of my question - why aren't they made and used more? They were replaced by CNC threading but on the lathe in my backyard shop they do an absolutely fabulous job.

I started a new post with this as the topic (which I should have done first). It's named "Acorn Dies". Hopefully that will catch the eye of someone who knows more than I.

 

[kinggt4]

I just used DuckDuckGo and ordered the Model Engineering Workshop Manual for 43.57 pounds from Tee Publishing in England. They were about the third link in the list. Sorry to hijack the discussion, but if anyone is looking for the book it's much cheaper than the $4-500 price for a used version.

George

 

[Richard Hed]

I just used DuckDuckGo and ordered the Model Engineering Workshop Manual for 43.57 pounds from Tee Publishing in England. They were about the third link in the list. Sorry to hijack the discussion, but if anyone is looking for the book it's much cheaper than the $4-500 price for a used version.

George

I don't consider it hi-jacking--if it were, I'm sure the fbi, men in white, men in black, mossad, mi6 , kgb would all be after me. I consider it a discussion you or I or someone else wants to talk about. What's wrong with that? fooey on always having to start a new thread--threads are for cutting on a lathe! If I don't want to read it, I can skip it--easy. IN this particular discussion there are two or three threads, and I enjoy reading them ALL--it reminds me that I still woke up this morning and could still make a cup-o'. Life is too short to whine about tiny details like "whose thread is this? Am I allowed to post my thots on something related but not exactly on form?" Or even unrelated sometimes.

 

[William May]

Just because something may be "technically unrelated" DOES NOT mean it is actually unrelated. This thread evolved based on the questions, concerns, and contributed information that were raised on a particular subject, and they are ALL interrelated. If you want to understand this thread, you need to read the WHOLE THING in order to understand how the conversation evolved. And if you do that, you will understand the complete thread. So there hasn't been any hi-jacking on this thread. Just because the angle of inquiry changes, does not mean the thread has changed.
And, typically, if ONE person has raised a point, then there are probably 100 or MORE other people who have the exact same questions. The road to knowledge is rarely a straight line.

 

[Richard Hed]

Just because something may be "technically unrelated" DOES NOT mean it is actually unrelated. This thread evolved based on the questions, concerns, and contributed information that were raised on a particular subject, and they are ALL interrelated. If you want to understand this thread, you need to read the WHOLE THING in order to understand how the conversation evolved. And if you do that, you will understand the complete thread. So there hasn't been any hi-jacking on this thread. Just because the angle of inquiry changes, does not mean the thread has changed.
And, typically, if ONE person has raised a point, then there are probably 100 or MORE other people who have the exact same questions. The road to knowledge is rarely a straight line.

Absolutely! Thankyew.

 

[RonW]

I just used DuckDuckGo and ordered the Model Engineering Workshop Manual for 43.57 pounds from Tee Publishing in England. They were about the third link in the list. Sorry to hijack the discussion, but if anyone is looking for the book it's much cheaper than the $4-500 price for a used version.

George

I just checked on Hemingway's site and they're advertising George Thomas's book at #23.95. Granted the latest catalogue is dated 2012 but when I queried a few weeks ago they assured me the prices still stood. I now see they've updated part of it, the catalogue, so not sure where that stands. Anyone wanting that book it might pay them to investigate Hemingway's before they update any more.
RonW

 

[William May]

Thanks!
I tried buying a copy of "Workshop Practices" from TEE publishing, but couldn't complete the transaction. When you clicked on the country to ship to, it would take you back to the beginning of the order form, and you had to start all over. After doing it 3 times (My name is Bill. People call me Bill) I gave up. I will check out Hemingway!.

 

[Richard Hed]

I just checked on Hemingway's site and they're advertising George Thomas's book at #23.95. Granted the latest catalogue is dated 2012 but when I queried a few weeks ago they assured me the prices still stood. I now see they've updated part of it, the catalogue, so not sure where that stands. Anyone wanting that book it might pay them to investigate Hemingway's before they update any more.
RonW

I just chekt HemingwayKits which is British and the cost was 27pounds plus 13 pounds shipping. Is there a Hemingway in the US? I have gotten things from Britain before and the price of shipping is a lot lower. I personally don't do business with companies that charge excess "shipping and handling". My view is that "shipping" can be charged for, naturally, but handling is part of the sale and if they don't charge enough to pay their employees for "handling" then they lose my business.

Also, it seems there are three books by Geo. Thomas.

 

[William May]

As far as I know, there ARE 3 books by George Thomas. I have been guided by people who knew all about George Thomas and his writings.
A. "The Universal Pillartool"
B. "Dividing and Graduating"
C. " The Model Engineer's Workshop Manual"
The last one was completed after his death.
Shipping from Great Britain is HUGELY expensive. I use to just order a casting when I was ready for it, but not anymore. I plan my purchases, and check with the vendors to see if I am over a postage limit, and into the next (and more expensive) category. Sometimes I will hold off on buying a casting, because it would put my current order in a much higher cost bracket, and just wait and combine it with the next order. It's a general PITA.
I go to Hershey, Pennsylvania every year for the Fall Meet, which is the largest antique car swap meet in the world. I ship a lot of my purchases from there, using the USPS flat rate boxes. That is the way I ship magnetos, which typically weigh about 15-30 lbs. each. I can ship up to 70 lbs. weight for about $20. You would be lucky if you could get a 1 lb. package from England for $20, forget about a 15 lb. package. .
But most of what you pay for "posting and packing" goes for the postage. That is what is expensive. Most places don't charge much, if at all, for the packing. They aren't making any money off of the shipping charges.

 

[Richard Hed]

As far as I know, there ARE 3 books by George Thomas. I have been guided by people who knew all about George Thomas and his writings.
A. "The Universal Pillartool"
B. "Dividing and Graduating"
C. " The Model Engineer's Workshop Manual"
The last one was completed after his death.
Shipping from Great Britain is HUGELY expensive. I use to just order a casting when I was ready for it, but not anymore. I plan my purchases, and check with the vendors to see if I am over a postage limit, and into the next (and more expensive) category. Sometimes I will hold off on buying a casting, because it would put my current order in a much higher cost bracket, and just wait and combine it with the next order. It's a general PITA.
I go to Hershey, Pennsylvania every year for the Fall Meet, which is the largest antique car swap meet in the world. I ship a lot of my purchases from there, using the USPS flat rate boxes. That is the way I ship magnetos, which typically weigh about 15-30 lbs. each. I can ship up to 70 lbs. weight for about $20. You would be lucky if you could get a 1 lb. package from England for $20, forget about a 15 lb. package. .
But most of what you pay for "posting and packing" goes for the postage. That is what is expensive. Most places don't charge much, if at all, for the packing. They aren't making any money off of the shipping charges.

Do you happen to know when these three books were printed? Last year, I ordered a "used booK" from someplace and it turned up to be brand new--the difference was that it was a SINGLE book printed. They can do that now, print a SINGLE book for very cheap. so I am wondering why the books cannot be printed in the USA now and sold for reasonable prices. Scarcity, of course, raises the price but also demand when high lowers the price. I imagine that there is not really enough demand to lower the price. Even tho' there are probably thousands of us who would buy the books for a lower, reasonable price. I would.

 

[goldstar31]

Richard
To come into the 21st Century, I have read and built many of the projects of George Thomas. They were edited and still appear in TWO books.
The projects were written for the then most popular lathe in the UK i.e the Myford 7. Since all this happened, Myford as we knew went into liquidation and was taken over by RDG Tools. The latter provide a service for spares and also sell reconditioned - but NOT new Myfords.
The reconditioned machines sold bare of any accessories from £3000 to some staggering £8000.
Make no mistake Myfords are a cult and if you follow my 'drivel' I am a fully paid up member
I have the latest - and possibly last model. Obviously, they are much sought after.
Arguably, the nearest NEW lathes are the Siegs at a fraction of the price but the contents of much of the content has to be converted into Metric dimensions and the chapters of the latter book 'Workshop Techniques' on Dividing and Graduating is primarily written for those owners who have 'bull wheels' in neither 65 teeth for the ML20 and the ML7 and 60 teeth for the Super7. Here is the task of factorising- beloved of small grandchildren. In my opinion, the only tool for other than Myfords, is the Small dividing head and if you want all the bells and whistles( like me) you go on to extra Acme thread- di dah, di dah!
Even it that, there is a need to change the Myford type spindle to one to take the Chinese accessories for the Siegs and suchlike.

Then comes the real crunch. You enter into copyright! I did speak to Kirk at Hemmingwaykits about the editor i.e. Der Bill Bennett BDS( Dunelm) as I hadn't seen him since the 50th Anniversary of his and my late wife's graduation. Doing a bit of cockeyed arithmetic, my wife had she lived would have been 82 but Bill did two years National Service before dentistry and will or might be 84.

Finally( I hope), there is a sort of comparison with GHT's friend Professor Dennis Chaddock who designed the Quorn and had Ivan Law of Gear Cutting fame supply the castings etc. Model Engineering Services no longer exists and a American supplier Martin Models has only a few castings which he has made left.

Digressing somewhat, Hemingwaykits has developed a Quorn Mark 3. The price of the kit and drawings will frighten you. Having a Mark1, I bought the new drawings to update things and the price was- without postage anywhere, about the same as GHT's two books.

My thoughts but I hope that they are not ones gazing into the East and expect another miracle to happen.

Norman at 90 years

 

[Richard Hed]

Richard
To come into the 21st Century, I have read and built many of the projects of George Thomas. They were edited and still appear in TWO books.
The projects were written for the then most popular lathe in the UK i.e the Myford 7. Since all this happened, Myford as we knew went into liquidation and was taken over by RDG Tools. The latter provide a service for spares and also sell reconditioned - but NOT new Myfords.
The reconditioned machines sold bare of any accessories from £3000 to some staggering £8000.
Make no mistake Myfords are a cult and if you follow my 'drivel' I am a fully paid up member
I have the latest - and possibly last model. Obviously, they are much sought after.
Arguably, the nearest NEW lathes are the Siegs at a fraction of the price but the contents of much of the content has to be converted into Metric dimensions and the chapters of the latter book 'Workshop Techniques' on Dividing and Graduating is primarily written for those owners who have 'bull wheels' in neither 65 teeth for the ML20 and the ML7 and 60 teeth for the Super7. Here is the task of factorising- beloved of small grandchildren. In my opinion, the only tool for other than Myfords, is the Small dividing head and if you want all the bells and whistles( like me) you go on to extra Acme thread- di dah, di dah!
Even it that, there is a need to change the Myford type spindle to one to take the Chinese accessories for the Siegs and suchlike.

Then comes the real crunch. You enter into copyright! I did speak to Kirk at Hemmingwaykits about the editor i.e. Der Bill Bennett BDS( Dunelm) as I hadn't seen him since the 50th Anniversary of his and my late wife's graduation. Doing a bit of cockeyed arithmetic, my wife had she lived would have been 82 but Bill did two years National Service before dentistry and will or might be 84.

Finally( I hope), there is a sort of comparison with GHT's friend Professor Dennis Chaddock who designed the Quorn and had Ivan Law of Gear Cutting fame supply the castings etc. Model Engineering Services no longer exists and a American supplier Martin Models has only a few castings which he has made left.

Digressing somewhat, Hemingwaykits has developed a Quorn Mark 3. The price of the kit and drawings will frighten you. Having a Mark1, I bought the new drawings to update things and the price was- without postage anywhere, about the same as GHT's two books.

My thoughts but I hope that they are not ones gazing into the East and expect another miracle to happen.

Norman at 90 years

So does this mean that I should only try to obtain the two edited books, or is the third one a goo one too? I haven't lookt into the Sieg, but that is German for "Victory" (Hail Victory and all that), so is Sieg a German model? I am looking into a Chinese one, There are litterally hundreds of companies in China making lathes. Unfortunately, one does not know which ones really hold up, have all the bits one needs, are reputable, back up the product, have spare parts, and all the bells and whistles to buy for it, without hassle. They obviously have SOME reputable companies, but the thing is, their prices REALLY ARE very cheap. I'm thimking, since it is so close to Philippines I could travel there and check out the stuff in person. (the chinese are really impressed by that.) There is one company "Siecc" obviously trying to masquerade as "Sieg", even using the name with something not quite understandable in English: "
sieg lathe machine oil pump for lathe machine
". I don't know what that means. This machine is 5000$US, 2000mm long between centers a 3 " spindle, has the usual bells and whistles and is 10HP! Well, it's too big, unnecessarily big. there are others that are only 1000mm for about the same price which is much more in line with what I require. so my other option is to buy from Grizzly, a company that sells Chinese stuff, backs up their stuff with no hassle, immediately and has access to spare parts, accessories and etc. Shipping is a bit less with Grizz but not really all that much. The thing is, that 3" spindle has me dazzled on the Siecc

As far as converting to metric, AutoCAD, and I don't know about other CADs , has a feature that allows you to put in metric measurements in brakets [ ] right next to the inch dimension. As far as Hemingway Kits, goes, I periodically look at their stuff and, you are correct, it is frightening prices, I just close it. the thing is, that if the company does not make enough off their product, they have no choice but to go out of business. So they are caught between trhying to reduce prices but keepin g up enough to survive. As for my cheap self, I look at the product, say castings, and I thimk to myself, I could make that for a tenth the price, so why would I buy it? If I can make somethign for a tenth the price, then anyone in business who has to pay for machines, labor, sales and all that, should be able to make and sell for less than what they sell it for and STILL make a profit. the Economy of scale is such that the crappy tools I use would be outclassed (and a much higher price, of course that has to be paid for) means they can produce the same item that I can in onesey, twosey but the hundreds they can make are barely any more cost than my one or two! Obviously it is more complex than that but the princi-ple, in my not so humble opionion is still correct. so I'm always wondering why good companies go out of business.