Help ML4 sick!

While we're on the subject of HSS how do you go about cutting it to size, i imagine it's a lot harder than Steel to cut, so would blunt a hack saw.
I've seen 3/8" x 4" blanks from chronic, for my size of toolpost these would be idea, if I halfed them to mount in the 4way toolpost, and is get 10 tools which costing it up seems to be the cheaper option.
Only way I can think is to grind a triangle in the middle using the corner of the grinder. Thus splitting it into two, but that then means that I'll loose a lot of material.

JCSteam said:

While we're on the subject of HSS how do you go about cutting it to size, i imagine it's a lot harder than Steel to cut, so would blunt a hack saw.
I've seen 3/8" x 4" blanks from chronic, for my size of toolpost these would be idea, if I halfed them to mount in the 4way toolpost, and is get 10 tools which costing it up seems to be the cheaper option.
Only way I can think is to grind a triangle in the middle using the corner of the grinder. Thus splitting it into two, but that then means that I'll loose a lot of material.

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Obviously, You cannot get anywhere with a hacksaw and have to think of an alternative. Arguably, the best is an angle grinder but with a thinner disc than normal.

Words of caution- WORDS OF CAUTION -suggest that cracking the kerf might cause bits to fly your way. I always hold tools in a vice but wrap them in a cloth before hitting them with a hammer.

N

You don't really need to cut the HSS blanks but I quite often have different shaped tools ground on opposite ends. For example brass one end (negative top rake) and ally the other end (steep positive rake).

Worth having a trawl round the interweb , lots of YouTube videos and plenty of advice. If you find ally sticking to the tool a little WD40 will help, it is quite a common problem with some of the softer alloys.
John

As for angles using a 6" grinding wheel on a double ended grinder, I have a nice little jig which has 0, 3, 5 and 8 degrees on each part of the square.

It's development from the formula which I gave earlier and obviously is a great tool to 'rough out' tool shapes prior to finish honing. Saves wearing down lots of more expensive grinding wheels etc. Amazing what a pennyworth of metal and a bit of engine-uity can do.

N

That's all looks like the angle grinder will be making its way my into the shed too. Not a lot of room in there now you know

JCSteam said:

That's all looks like the angle grinder will be making its way my into the shed too. Not a lot of room in there now you know

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Clearly, an angle grinder is a pretty crude way of both cutting and grinding 'things' but getting a matching fitment ( perhaps from Aldi or Lidl) and sets of stone and metal cutting disks is worth having.

I was sort of brought up on such things and as time goes by one does become more proficient- and probably adding sanders and wire brushes can be even more useful.

Please be aware of flying wires and so forth. I recall having to pick out loose wires from my ancient arms and legs. So wear goggles too!

N

Nice post John that should help JC with grinding rakes for tools
I must admit i use mostly carbide now,but if i have to cut a piece
of HSS i just nick the corners with a grinder, angle or bench
wrap in cloth stick it in the vice and hit with a hammer
I prefer to grind both ends and keep a longer length.Usually LH and RH

Norm I know exactly what you mean with the wires, once wire brushed a 10' cast iron lamp for the garden, I'm sure I'm still finding the bloody bits of twisted wire even after all these years lol.

I also didn't realise that the HSS would crack like that under force, but I guess this is why the tips get lost when it snaps off and you re grind it.

I came across a PDF online a while back, written as a user guide by the southbend lathe company aimed at beginners (like me) and shows all the common lathe tools and their profiles as shown above in Johns post. Learned a lot from just sitting down and reading that one night.

Off topic, talking of angle grinders, I've seen a few people make their own chop off saw using a 4" angle grinder. On for the future project list. At the moment the ball turning attachment takes my fancy. But that's another day.

One like this infact https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/112544142385

JCSteam said:

Off topic, talking of angle grinders, I've seen a few people make their own chop off saw using a 4" angle grinder. On for the future project list. At the moment the ball turning attachment takes my fancy. But that's another day.

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My opinion, for what little it is worth, is that you find a professional ( ? Aldi) far more used. It's got a crude vice( haven't we all,?) and with that, you can cut out a ball turner-for next to nothing.

Yonks ago, I made a boring head which - once you see the concept- works admirably as a ball turner. Of course, you can make that from a one of these taper turning devices------ and so ad infinitum:wall:

I once 'lost' something proper and took the cutting bit out of a boring head-- and used it as a lathe tool.

And what about a trepanning tool_Huh?

Beware, it can become addictive!

N

Ok off to look up a trepanning tool.......no idea what that is yet. I have seen the concept of the boring head come ball turner, and i can see what you and others mean.

Also I think your right on the saw, but I can't see me holding that much bar stock to start with, so was just thinking for those one off that'll save me arm some workout. But then again who knows, last year I was just playing with a soldering iron and steam toys, now I'm seriously thinking bigger scale and propane blow torches

One can do an awful lot with a 4 1/2" angle grinder and those really skinny (1mm?) cutting disks. But, much as I am a cheapskate, disks are like hacksaw blades - cheap ones are a waste of time, effort and materials. So I buy a few each time I have my MIG bottles refilled, and it gives me an excuse to spend a little money in the nice tool shop (Parflo, Altricham, if you're from around here).

I bought a modellers 2" capacity recip. power hacksaw (OK, old and cheap) before I realised those disks would do everything I need to do. At work we cut 1" plate with a plasma cutter, but that's a bit heavy duty for round here

On a battery grinder, those disks negate any bike lock known to man. This P***** me off as a cyclist and biker, but there we are.

MRA said:

One can do an awful lot with a 4 1/2" angle grinder and those really skinny (1mm?) cutting disks. But, much as I am a cheapskate, disks are like hacksaw blades - cheap ones are a waste of time, effort and materials. So I buy a few each time I have my MIG bottles refilled, and it gives me an excuse to spend a little money in the nice tool shop (Parflo, Altricham, if you're from around here).



I bought a modellers 2" capacity recip. power hacksaw (OK, old and cheap) before I realised those disks would do everything I need to do. At work we cut 1" plate with a plasma cutter, but that's a bit heavy duty for round here



On a battery grinder, those disks negate any bike lock known to man. This P***** me off as a cyclist and biker, but there we are.

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I have to agree here, a 4.5" right angle grinder is an amazing tool! It does require buying decent wheels but once you have a handle on what is a quality wheel you have some amazing versatility.

For the guy asking the original question about cutting tool steel blanks a few suggestions. First if your vendor has them, and they are priced right, buy the six in blanks. This will give you two 3" tools or three 2" tools. Don't forget that you will find need for very short blanks for use in boring bars and the like.

It is also a good idea never to throw out HSS or carbide tooling. Broken drill bits, end mills and whatever can often be ground into specialized cutters. So a dedicated box for HSS and used carbide is highly recommended. I might even break the boxes down more into HSS, cobalt, carbide and even tool steel.

As others have pointed out free hand grinding isn't that bad once you get the hang of it. It is grinding for a precise form that is a real challenge and this is where a tool grinder comes in handy. This doesn't mean you cant hand grind a radius cutter for example just that a machine can be very helpful in thar regard.

Beyond all of that whenever possible buy HSS at auctions. For some reason people see used HSS and automatically think that the stuff is worthless. You can get a lot of HSS real cheap at auctions. Just look for small machine shops going out of business, retired machinist that have passed on and of course hobby oriented sales at places like Cabin fever.

As readers will appreciate , I am in complete agreement with Wizard69 about his views. I collect previously used lathe tools and carefully husband broken centre drills etc and re-cycle them for boring bars etc.

So what is new or whatever to add to a very good response?
Quite simply is that the quality of tooling varies enormously and there is every reason to find 'favourite ' tooling. Actually some of my bought HSS blanks is 'crap' whilst stuff that probably came from industry might be the wrong shape, it has been reworked to suit my more modest equipment. Again, there is no reason not to recover bits and braze or silver solder them to mild steel shanks.

One sad thing is that I have variously acquired cemented carbide tooling which arrived as a starter. with a lathe sale and proves to be so soft that it is nearly useless. On the other side of the coin, some of my tooling is designed to be run quite safely red hot!

Having said all that, there is no reason not to check whether things like cracked ball race cages and things like motor and motor cycle spokes should not be use. Many of the latter and decent hexagon keys can become part of the tooling.

The ability is , and I have repeated it many times, is to hone after grinding. I use a 600 grit diamond hone but regularly move onto a white Arkansas stone. One of mine came from my late wife's dental and orthodontic tool box.

I hope that this also has been constructive

N