Setting up Shop Questions - from an NZ learner

imagineering said:

I haven't dug into then myself but our Archivist/President has been acquiring them for years on behalf of the Assoc. I know that we go back to the 1920's but I don't know if the Collection is complete from that Era.

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I am sure that people like James who seriously wants to do things would enjoy 'digging in' to old information.

Sadly, we run into copyright problems which beset our hobby. I tried to remedy this, Jim Early did and we failed- miserably.


I'm now trying to learn how to take digital photos and even more adventurous, post them. I've never met such gobbledegook in what must be really a simple 'cookbook' thing. I simply was born before all this stuff.

Mutter, mutter, moody and whatever.

Look after James!

Regards

Norman

I really wish someone had a set they would donate.
I would cut off the spine, and run them through our scanner into very-high-quality PDFs at 300 dpi. And very small.

The super-duper scanner we have for work, has a hardware processor to compress PDFs in near real time.
At 100 pages per minute, both sides, single pass.
BTW a 24 MB PDF file (30 pages, full color) is only 3 MB when done by the printer.

We need to scan large quantities of documents, and a 3 hours daily chore is now about 10 minutes.
The feeder takes about 200 pages iirc.
And since its single-pass, approx zero blockages, as the path is straight.
Oh, and monthly costs dropped by 50%, too, in consumables.

I think we scan about 5000 pages / 2 weeks.

Today I tried to start my MIG welding adventure. Naively I thought I could go to BOC in Petone, fill in the form, pay my money and come away with a rented Argon/CO2 D sized bottle. But OH NO, to simple. I have to have an account opened first. THEN I have to fill in the D1 Plan form, and THEN I can organise to collect an suitable bottle. SHEESH! :wall: :rant: *knuppel2*

So it looks like I will have to play with my stick welding function until I get gas and can do MIG. Still learning stick is still very useful since it means I can more easily do outside welding and can tackle thicker metals than the MIG will be able to handle.

All part of the broader metal working learning experience. :thumbup:

Okay, try not to laugh to hard. My first EVER (and I do mean EVER) welding beads using stick (or any form of welding technique for that matter). Right hand side is where I was practicing striking an arc. Then started doing vertical beads then getting closer together at the far left.


Cheers,
James.

The welds on the left are reasonable for a beginner.I was sent on a welding course early in my working life.I was given a pallet of scrap steel from 1mm to 10mm thick and told to spend a week building sculptures from bits of scrap
all position from horizintal to vertical to upside down horizontal.Only way to learn,books help but practice is better

You have to start somewhere, well done.:thumbup:

I am having computer problems and have lost a lot of my comments.
The first comment is to get one of these automatic self darkening head shields. They help enormously for Mig and Tig as well.
The next thing is to try to get a video from the Welding Institute. There is also a Mig one. Both are great- but quite ancient.
The third is find the Mig Welding forum on the net. Despite the title, it helps with arc stuff, too.
Finally( at this time), get one of these vibrating holders for holding sticks. No jokes please- but they help in striking an arc.

As Barry rightly comments that it is a question of 'practice, practice, practice'

I was a Certified Welder and would comment that one loses the 'touch' and has to re-certify. I've had a 'layoff' of 30 odd years and slowly getting my eye and hand back in with my cheap little 105A Mig.

So practice, practice, practice. I hope that the foregoing is some little help.

Norman

Cheers guys. From a "gear" perspective I have the auto darkening helmet, took the hint on that from what feels like a million "how to weld" type youtube videos. Including stuff from brand names like Miller and Lincoln.

Other than that I just need to clock up time under the helmet. Thanks to Bruce for donating the bit of the angle steel for me to start on. I now need to try and dig up some scrap plate or flat bar wide enough so that I can just lay rows and rows of beads down and have enough distance to adjust and see the variations the adjustments create.
At the moment I think I may have too much arch length which might be contributing to excessive splatter. All good. Just need to experiment a bit.

Oh, I was using 2.5mm 6013 electrode running at ~85amps (rated for 70-100amps). It was just what I had that came with the welder. The angle steel looks to be ~3mm thick.

Cheers,
James.

hey blogwitch...if we started making lathes here in Tassie you would get a bonus...they would all come with two head stocks.....clem

Good work. Now this is something that only Fred the guy who ran a welding course for 4 of us back in the 80s when we were at college knew. Fred started welding back in WWW2 welding up mufflers for submarines....

MIG was unheard of back in the 80s.

Fred told us a welding rod was designed to weld 9". All of his practice steel was cut to 9" long and he told us to measure out the 9" and make sure the top of the rod was above that point. Then all you had to do is to drop your hand while keeping the arc constant. Try to find some longer pieces of scrap. Try Freds rule.

BOC was kind enough to set the account up for me while I waited on my first visit. Argoshield Light is the gas for MIG steel , Argon is for TIG and MIG Aluminium. Make sure you price a E bottle, price is almost identical.

People say MIG is easier than stick, but I am not convinced. It is certainly much quicker which is why its used in manufacturing.

Not bad for the first attempts at striking an arc.

joco-nz said:

Cheers guys. From a "gear" perspective I have the auto darkening helmet, took the hint on that from what feels like a million "how to weld" type youtube videos. Including stuff from brand names like Miller and Lincoln.

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One of the most important things with welding is your ability to see what is going on at the weld puddle. A good helmet helps as does good prescription safety glasses. I've been welding on and off for years often at work for maintenance but also for home projects and I have to say as I get older eyesight becomes a problem so anything that results in a clearer view of what is going on is worth every penny.

Recently I was doing some welding outside and ended up trying to run a beed in a area that was in a shadow. Poor vision had me run the beed completely out of the seam. Very embarrassing but it highlights the problem poor vision introduces, in this case the inability to handle large contrasts in light.

Other than that I just need to clock up time under the helmet. Thanks to Bruce for donating the bit of the angle steel for me to start on. I now need to try and dig up some scrap plate or flat bar wide enough so that I can just lay rows and rows of beads down and have enough distance to adjust and see the variations the adjustments create.

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The best way to develop you skills is to lay down various beads to join metal sections and then break the parts apart. Depending upon how fast you progress you should find you first joints to be questionable at best and eventually get to the point where the seam is very strong to the point that you can't break it.

At the moment I think I may have too much arch length which might be contributing to excessive splatter. All good. Just need to experiment a bit.

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Maybe that is just something that takes a bit of practice to manage. What you might want to do though is to make sure the metal you are welding is clean, hitting it with a disk grinder will make for better joints.

Oh, I was using 2.5mm 6013 electrode running at ~85amps (rated for 70-100amps). It was just what I had that came with the welder. The angle steel looks to be ~3mm thick.



Cheers,

James.

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Back when I did stick welding that is what I ran the rod at. Someplace between 80 and 90 amps.

Rod - interesting rule. I'll see if can give it a go.

Re BOC, I'll see what the E bottle rental is. The D size for argon/co2 about NZD200 for 12 months. With 1 initial fill. I need to ask them a blunt question as I have a nasty feeling, based on language to date, that if I want to get straight argon on a fill instead of argon/co2 mix they expect me to rent a second bottle. Where as EasyGas, where I buy the bottle (big $ upfront) will let me swap between argon and an argon/co2 mix on fills as I want.

I'm starting to get a sense of the "why" of some of the quite passionate posts against BOC from a number of NZ hobby welders. I'll "suck it and see" for a year with BOC and then decide based on real usage patterns if EasyGas or SuperGas are better options.

joco-nz said:

Rod - interesting rule. I'll see if can give it a go.

Re BOC, I'll see what the E bottle rental is. The D size for argon/co2 about NZD200 for 12 months. With 1 initial fill. I need to ask them a blunt question as I have a nasty feeling, based on language to date, that if I want to get straight argon on a fill instead of argon/co2 mix they expect me to rent a second bottle. Where as EasyGas, where I buy the bottle (big $ upfront) will let me swap between argon and an argon/co2 mix on fills as I want.

I'm starting to get a sense of the "why" of some of the quite passionate posts against BOC from a number of NZ hobby welders. I'll "suck it and see" for a year with BOC and then decide based on real usage patterns if EasyGas or SuperGas are better options.

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Rent is not much different here. See if you can rent the bottle on a monthly basis so you can change your bottle holding when you want. You will probably use a fair bit of gas starting off so rental is cheaper and move to the swap and go system later when consumption dies down. Initially they set me up quarterly but the rep who called in at work gave me a free bottle of Argon and talked me into monthly rentals. They just debit my account.

Do you have the gasweld franchise in NZ or Bunnings ?
Over here we can buy our own bottles through them , not cheap but you get your money back over time not having to pay rent on them .
Fortunately Bunnings now carries acetylene as well now .

Ian

I have own my bottles since the 70's with no rent. Note buy the tanks that can be exchange. The gas will cost little more but I can go to supplier and exchange for a full tank.
Note I found use 80 cfm [Q] or 120 cfm [M] is about size not to big but give a lot gas for the buck.
I have smaller tank 20 CFM but all ever time I use it need to be filled.


Dave

joco-nz said:

Rod - interesting rule. I'll see if can give it a go.

Re BOC, I'll see what the E bottle rental is. The D size for argon/co2 about NZD200 for 12 months. With 1 initial fill. I need to ask them a blunt question as I have a nasty feeling, based on language to date, that if I want to get straight argon on a fill instead of argon/co2 mix they expect me to rent a second bottle. Where as EasyGas, where I buy the bottle (big $ upfront) will let me swap between argon and an argon/co2 mix on fills as I want.

I'm starting to get a sense of the "why" of some of the quite passionate posts against BOC from a number of NZ hobby welders. I'll "suck it and see" for a year with BOC and then decide based on real usage patterns if EasyGas or SuperGas are better options.

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I think i got my fanchise nams screwed up.

The ones are:
http://eziswapgas.co.nz
http://www.supagas.co.nz

These are the only suppliers i am aware of in NZ who support something like an "owner bottle" type concept.

For non NZ readers it is useful to understand that gas bottles are heavily regulated here. Not only do they need to be tested and certified (every 5 years- i think) but each bottle needs to be part of a traceable batch, ie numbered with that produxtion batch number and the connecting threads on them appear to be non standard. The upshot is a quite controlled and protectionist setup.

Anyway. Ill just need to figure out what is the most viable path longer term. Until then I'll have fun making sparks.

Cheers,
J.

Right today is another tool buying day. Those are always GOOD days. I've been prevaricating over what bench grinder to get. There are just so many makes and sizes that I didn't know what way to go. However having the chance to see Bruce's workshop and what he manufactures from it I'm pretty comfortable fallowing his lead. No pressure Bruce. :thumb:

So, bench grinder: https://www.bunnings.co.nz/ryobi-bench-grinder-sander-375w_p00314864
A nice mix of size, price and capability from the looks of it. I'll need to get a white and probably green wheel for it. But this will get me started and should form the corner stone of some HSS tooling for the lathe.

Now I need to cut metal. I rather liked the "cold" cutoff saws with the TCT blades. Fast and accurate but a little limited. The more I looked the situation and the limited room I have I finally concluded I would be better served with a small bandsaw. Able to cut solid chunks of metal, able to cut hollow section and able to be upright like a regular bandsaw. Again taking the lead from Bruce and taking account of available space I'm looking at the http://www.machineryhouse.co.nz/B002 although I might get the http://www.thetoolshed.co.nz/Products/Workshop/Bandsaws/ToolShed-Metal-Cutting-Bandsaw which is exactly the same model but wth a 36 month warranty and if the local store has it I can get it today/tomorrow.

Such fun!.

Cheers,
James.

I have the next size up - 200mm but without the linisher mine is about 18 yrs old and has been a reliable tool .
One thing you will need to do sooner or later is upgrade the tool rest with something a bit more solid , i made one from 25mm sq tube with a chunk of 10x75 mm flat bar as the top and then bolted it to the bench - nice and solid .
Sooner or later some one will come along and tell you that you need to change the wheel to either a white or green one depending on whether you are grinding HSS or carbide , i never bothered for lathe bits or drill bits and have never had a problem .
That said it all changes when you want to resharpen end mils or slot drills but this will be something to worry about a bit down the track and then you would look at a dedicated grinder and jig to do it .
I picked up a Hafco grinder off eBay ,the biggest 240v one they make and bolted a linisher attachment to it - sounds like a jet engine winding up , the neighbours just love it !
On tip is keep the grinder as far away from your lathe as possible and cover the lathe with a cheap tarp if you're going to be doing a lot of grinding , you don't want grinding dust on the ways .
I always wanted a cold cut off saw but ended up with the Hafco Bs4 this is now around 15 yrs old and has done an awful lot more work than i ever thought it would ! Box trailers ,car trailers , target frames for a rifle club , god knows how many benches and lathe stands - damned best thing i ever bought !
They usually need a bit of attention when you first set it up , usually just tweaking the guide rollers and getting the blade set up so it runs properly in the drive & idler wheel - all pretty simple.
Just remember to keep the blade feed pressure down as too much and the blade can wander giving a cut that is not square !
Mine has had some upgrades over the years , extended vice jaws , hydraulic feed unit , better stand etc but those are things you play with when it suits you.
Have you any experience sharpening Lathe tools ( high speed steel ) ?
There are a couple of channels on YouTube you may wish to look at if you haven't already done so :
Mrpete222

That lazy machinist .
Both excellent channels for machinists and model engineers .

Well i better leave it at that , the clock just chimed beer o'clock and you will need to put your slippers on and light a pipe to read the pages of script i tend to write after a couple !

XD351 - cheers. Have the grinder in a box all ready to be dealt with tomorrow. The Tool Shed in Petone only have a single unit left of their bandsaw, its preassembled on the shop floor. I think I'll just go get it tomorrow morning (they open 9am). The nice thing about 36 month warranty and a local supplier is that if I have any issues real easy to rock up and and get some attention. Plus unless I am missing something the Tool Shed TSB03 is exactly the same as the Hafco BS4, spec's, everything is bang on other than the colour.

joco-nz said:

XD351 - cheers. Have the grinder in a box all ready to be dealt with tomorrow. The Tool Shed in Petone only have a single unit left of their bandsaw, its preassembled on the shop floor. I think I'll just go get it tomorrow morning (they open 9am). The nice thing about 36 month warranty and a local supplier is that if I have any issues real easy to rock up and and get some attention. Plus unless I am missing something the Tool Shed TSB03 is exactly the same as the Hafco BS4, spec's, everything is bang on other than the colour.

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Yes it is the same Machine James. Print out the Machinery House Advert and go to the ToolShed with it. They will Price Match it if you get a bit insistent about it. Let them know that you will be buying from Mach House because of the price and they will usually jump at the chance to sell you one at the reduced Price.