Magic Coins

Here is a website of a machinist of magic appliances. He sells some plans, including a "scotch and soda" coin set. Now that I look at it again, I'm not sure that set includes an expanded coin.

http://www.jamesriser.com/Magic/JamesRiserMagic.html

Entrpy, I think your last post is right on or very close. I had thought of expanding mandrels, but suggested a series of press fit mandrels that the coin would be struck onto with a plastic mallet. I was thinking that the metal would be easier to stretch by striking, but then again, ring stretchers work well with just pressure. Multiple annealings would ce important to prevent cracking, and to make the metal easlier to move, just as when making a coin ring. Once the coin has been stretched in diameter, it could be put onto a close fitting mandrel, and the sides could be stretched in height by striking with a plastic mallet.

If you can't find plans, spend a few afternoons in the shop experimenting. Nothing to lose but a few coins and a little time. When I did coins, I had a hard time learning how to anneal the coins without. Defacing them. It takes a deft touch with a torch.

Finally, on the legal issue, I am a lawyer, and have been for 40 years. When I read that statute, I take it to mean that the prosecutor would have to prove that you had an intent to defraud someone. Defrauding someone is more than just tricking them. You have to be tricking them into giving you money or some other advantage that they wouldn't otherwise have given. A magician performs illusions for entertainment. The audience pays for the entertainment, and thus gets what it intended to pay for.

Paul

thanks for the link

Paul & Entropy

thanks for the conceptual rundown of the process

I don't know if I'll make one - seems like a lot of work and specialized tools that would have to be made, especially the "stretcher". For the little price they charge its way easier to just buy one. Mostly I just wanted to know how it could be done as I had no idea how one could/would expand a coin.

I've had lots of magic coins in my hands, and can say with certainty most of them are made from real coins.

Tho deform the coins is pretty easy, I have been done that with my children like a way to start learning jewelry.... They learn how to use the saw, the torch, annealing, dies and the stretcher.

Example: the rings are done cutting an inside circle .... you keep the letters and numbers, then you start to deform them with this tool if it is done carefully the letters and number still clear.
You will finish it with the rings stretcher, every step annealing and quenching. is a great way to teach to the children and them get something cool.

Other "cool " thing with coins is to do a little jewelry box, two coins (quarters) become half spheres with the first tool, with a piece of tube you do the hinge and a smaller coin (dime) made also half sphere welded under the other two up side down for a foot. Then you can get crazy... an eagle for a coin, a head for other.....

I got started on coins by making "dished nickel" drawer pulls for a toolbox. Dish some Indian head nickels ( I used a steel ball and a die I made on the lathe, and dished them with a single hammer blow) then cut and thread a stem from nickel silver rod, and silver solder it to the back of the dished nickel to make a drawer pull. Can be done with silver quarters for a larger pull, or a cabinet door knob.

Entropy455 said:

Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 17, section 331 of the US Code states:


"Whoever fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates, impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales, or lightens any of the coins coined at the mints of the United States, or any foreign coins which are by law made current or are in actual use or circulation as money within the United States; or
Whoever fraudulently possesses, passes, utters, publishes, or sells, or attempts to pass, utter, publish, or sell, or brings into the United States, any such coin, knowing the same to be altered, defaced, mutilated, impaired, diminished, falsified, scaled, or lightened— Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both."


I'm not a lawyer. That being said, I see two ways to read this.

(1) you cannot fraudulently mutilate a coin
or
(2) you cannot mutilate a coin.

Either way, you can bet I'd be seeking legal advise prior to modifying any US coin for profit. . . .

Click to expand...

It seams to me that you cannot do any of the above wether fraudulent or not. The second part does not state anything about fraudulentcy and it implies that you will get fined, jail time or both for basically messing up a coin. The penny smashers that I have seen don't use real pennies but copper blanks the size of pennies for you souvenirs.

Just my two cents,
John.

Here in the USA, if one would go to a State park,they might find a machine that squeezes a penny down into an oval shape(for a quarter). If it was illegal to do I don't think the machine would show up there.

John Rus said:

It seams to me that you cannot do any of the above wether fraudulent or not. The second part does not state anything about fraudulentcy and it implies that you will get fined, jail time or both for basically messing up a coin. The penny smashers that I have seen don't use real pennies but copper blanks the size of pennies for you souvenirs.

Just my two cents,
John.

Click to expand...

This has been hashed over many times in the jewelry and coin forums - as long as there is no intent to alter a coin to make it worth less than face value and pass it off... or to make it appear worth more than face value ( ie, altering date or mint marks), it is legal to alter coins to make something in the way of jewelry or other "decorations".

"Whoever fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates, impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales, or lightens any of the coins coined at the mints of the United States, or any foreign coins which are by law made current or are in actual use or circulation as money within the United States; or

Whoever fraudulently possesses, passes, utters, publishes, or sells, or attempts to pass, utter, publish, or sell, or brings into the United States, any such coin, knowing the same to be altered, defaced, mutilated, impaired, diminished, falsified, scaled, or lightened—

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both."


It's pretty clear. The statute describes the people who can be fined or imprisoned as "Whoever fraudulently" engages in certain actions. If you do not fraudulently do those things, you can't be fined or imprisoned.

Guys,

I wasn't aware that there are so many who are concerned about the legality of this endeavor. Surely none of those posting paragraphs of legal gibberish have ever gone over the speed limit or, god forbid, operated a vehicle after having a glass of beer or wine after dinner. Or worst taken some creative deductions on their tax return.

While I appreciate all your concerns about my pending incarceration I just want to know how it is made and not how legit it is. Purely for educational/machining purposes.

Can we please put the legal aspects to rest.

So far we only have "hypothetical" approaches how to accomplish the expanding coin. Has anybody actually made one and can share his methods?

First, it is NOT illegal to manufacture coins for magic purposes. This has been going on since the 18th century until present. You must possess some sort of engineering skills, a precision lathe, and for the stretching I created and machined my own tool to expand the coin in 3 easy moves.

Scotch and Sodas generally don't use an expanded shell, but an easier process that enables a locking method. Nesting coins are even easier to make.

Mad Jake Jr.
MJJ Magic Mfg.
www.airshipmagic.com

Here you go