I.C., steam, air poll, please participate!!

Well from a semi beginner's point who is curious about jumping onto the casting band wagon, I think an aluminum casting would be better. The experts can still build it and enjoy it and someone just jumping into it can also build them since aluminum is a little more forgiving. You could always sell iron inserts for the cylinders with the casting kit. That would present less problems for us rookies in honing it. Several kits I've been looking into also have the option of buying an ignition system and flywheel from them as well. Note that I've never actually built a casting kit yet so take my advice with a grain of salt. Just figured I'd throw you a pitch from my side of the market! Good luck!

Wagon, I can see where some would have a preference to aluminum. I'm getting a lot of good insight on what people like.
Tin, good point, what size engine to build.

aonemarine,

I deal with castings day in and day out for a large scale diesel manufacturer. Everything from 13l blocks to heads for a v8 diesel to exhaust manifolds for a 4 cylinder. Aluminum to CGI. Casting "issues" come in so many forms. If I may suggest one thing, establish a cast datum or two for initial location to fixturing. Most of our issues relate to cast datums or alloy content.

May I also suggest a raw/scrap material trade in value since this is going to be a hobby business? It will encourage purchase and help keep cost down.

I'll be glad to machine some of your castings but I'll pay you for them. Give me a month or so and I'll finally have a build thread up so you can see my work.

Jw, the scrap idea would not work out for me. Reason being is I have to start with a good quality grey iron scrap that most would not be able to identify themselves and would essentially bring me junk that would take me time to try and figure out how to blend it into the melt and come out with nice machineable iron. Not impossible, but i get tired of pouring chill wedges..
Datum references, yes that will be incorporated when I can.

My Main Interest is IC engines,Hot air Engines and Vacuum Engines.
It would be nice to see castings/ kits available that are straightforward to build and within the skill levels of beginners or those that have limited tooling .
IE most of us have lathes but not all of us posses a milling machines with all the accessories and sometimes the requirement for gear cutting and cam forming etc can be daunting. ( In an Ideal world it would be nice if these type of components can be supplied with kits )

Goldflash said:

My Main Interest is IC engines,Hot air Engines and Vacuum Engines.
It would be nice to see castings/ kits available that are straightforward to build and within the skill levels of beginners or those that have limited tooling .
IE most of us have lathes but not all of us posses a milling machines with all the accessories and sometimes the requirement for gear cutting and cam forming etc can be daunting. ( In an Ideal world it would be nice if these type of components can be supplied with kits )

Click to expand...

This is something that I will have to put some thought into. For the longest time all i had was a lathe and felt very limited with it at first. In time I realised its potential and did alot of different machining operations on it, but its size was limited.
I am uncertain about building something that is too terribly small, but could come up with a nice engine that could be built entirely on a 9" lathe if there is enough interest. Maybe something along the lines of a Westinghouse twin??

something like this?

I am assuming that by the looks of it that its a steam engine. Looks great. I have an aversion to building boilers. what I like about the Hot air engines I have made is that I can run them on the coffee table. At the moment I am designing a half breed 2 stroke engine ( open crankcase ) ( inspired by Chuck Fellows post ) that would be relatively easy to make and I think would be able to run on either glow plug or spark ignition . My tools are limited to a Myford Super 7 with all the accessories and a very good but old pillar drill.

Hallo Aonemarine If I was in your shoes i would
cast Harley or Indian engine replicas .
V twins are perfect looking and easy to build.
Regards Kadora

Well cant make them all happy LOL

aonemarine,

I hope the huge variation of requests shows that people respect your work and prove you already have a customer base. Anything you go with will have takers and leavers. Focus on the takers and don't worry about the leavers.

You asked, so I will chime in.

1. Offer something unique... A "signature engine"...something no one else is offering. For example: a 1/2 HP vertical, air-cooled....(no water-jackets, no radiators, no extra cooling fans)...propane engine. Hit and Miss, no timing gears, ratchet indexer for exhaust valve. Like the Olds, Vertical Gearless....but far less expensive!

2. Keep the casting to a minimum....only cast the essential components. The rest of the fabrication should be from bar-stock, and odd pieces, common fasteners, standard spark-plugs, wires, points, etc.

3. Perhaps develop a "convertible" engine. Same bottom end: crank, frame, and swap on different cyllinders for steam/compressed-air, gas, vacuum, etc. Sell component, add-on, parts, for the conversions in packages. Offer the engine in a basic configuration, but sell it as a 'convertible' engine. There once was a company who sold castings for this kind of convertible engine, but I don't know if they are still in business. They sold a horizontal engine.

4. Develop castings for a 1/2 - 1 HP two stroke, vertical, air-cooled, one, or, two cylinder, piston-ported, engine. Transfer porting can be external, (essentially a cast iron/brass plate with passages for transfer) and mounted to the cylinder- like vintage, airplane engines, and so could the carb. set-up. So you will cast the crankcase... cooling fins...maybe, the crank.... transfer port, exhaust manifold, carb. mountings and timer mechanism. Cylinder: common steel tube, or cast iron. Everything else bar-stock.

This is just MY wish list, my fantasy in a perfect world. Consider nothing listed here, that is unrealistic. Money is hard to come by these days, and it's gonna get worse. I look for the most bang for the buck.

Good luck, and may you be prosperous.

Frank

aonemarine said:

This is something that I will have to put some thought into. For the longest time all i had was a lathe and felt very limited with it at first. In time I realised its potential and did alot of different machining operations on it, but its size was limited.
I am uncertain about building something that is too terribly small, but could come up with a nice engine that could be built entirely on a 9" lathe if there is enough interest. Maybe something along the lines of a Westinghouse twin??

Click to expand...

Just a thought, there are a LOT of us out here that have 6" (and smaller) lathes.

1) I like the easy to machine alloys of aluminum (I think the 4000 series - I just recognize them when I make my own castings) becasue they machine nicely, look good and don't scratch like the other aluminum alloys. 1% leaded steel is nice to work with for things like pistons and cylinder inserts.
2) I think there will be a demand for good casting kits with clear instructions. I think there is especially a market for a few very simple kits that would give a rank beginner a good experience and encouragement to continue with enthusiasm. I hve seen too many kits partially finished by people who are not lazy.
3) One thing that seems to be missing from a lot of kit suppliers are replacements. One of the reasons I think some of those kits (note 2) go unfinished is because the home machinist made a mistake and doesn't want to buy another kit just to try again on the part that was messed up.
4) I might be the only person interested, but I wonder if there might be a market for patterns as well as castings. Then an amateur foundryman can make a bunch of a good engines or make castings for young people to learn on, etc. Alternatively, lost foam patterns for the guy who wants to cast his own.

aonemarine said:

Tin, this is more a hobby thing than a full blown business. Id be making patterns and casting the parts tor an engine I want to build. Since the patterns are made it just makes sense to cast a few extra sets for others that are interested in building the same. I'll all ways have the patterns, and could cast up a set at any time they are wanted. I did the business thing for 5 years, worked my butt off, and decided to get a job. I make the same amount of money with less work.

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Here's my 2cents worth:
Since this is a hobby for you I'd say use your creative talents to make unique and unusual engines YOU are interested in. There will always be a few who are interested in picking up a casting kit like that. Don't go for the high volume crowd, it's too hard to hit and it's way too much work for a hobbiest. From reading this thread and lots of others, and input from folks at shows, it seems most of the folks who were interested in building authentic scale model engines have have essentially left the hobby. The old machinery nestalgia is disappearing. It is being replaced by hobbiests who want easy small and cheap. Not much of a challenge for those who want to create upscale value. If you can make models and sell enough extra to pay for a percentage of your hobby costs you are doing very well, in the mean time you will be contributing something of value to the hobby.

maury
www.lonestarengineworks.com

BronxFigs said:

You asked, so I will chime in.

1. Offer something unique... A "signature engine"...something no one else is offering. For example: a 1/2 HP vertical, air-cooled....(no water-jackets, no radiators, no extra cooling fans)...propane engine. Hit and Miss, no timing gears, ratchet indexer for exhaust valve. Like the Olds, Vertical Gearless....but far less expensive!

2. Keep the casting to a minimum....only cast the essential components. The rest of the fabrication should be from bar-stock, and odd pieces, common fasteners, standard spark-plugs, wires, points, etc.

3. Perhaps develop a "convertible" engine. Same bottom end: crank, frame, and swap on different cyllinders for steam/compressed-air, gas, vacuum, etc. Sell component, add-on, parts, for the conversions in packages. Offer the engine in a basic configuration, but sell it as a 'convertible' engine. There once was a company who sold castings for this kind of convertible engine, but I don't know if they are still in business. They sold a horizontal engine.

4. Develop castings for a 1/2 - 1 HP two stroke, vertical, air-cooled, one, or, two cylinder, piston-ported, engine. Transfer porting can be external, (essentially a cast iron/brass plate with passages for transfer) and mounted to the cylinder- like vintage, airplane engines, and so could the carb. set-up. So you will cast the crankcase... cooling fins...maybe, the crank.... transfer port, exhaust manifold, carb. mountings and timer mechanism. Cylinder: common steel tube, or cast iron. Everything else bar-stock.

This is just MY wish list, my fantasy in a perfect world. Consider nothing listed here, that is unrealistic. Money is hard to come by these days, and it's gonna get worse. I look for the most bang for the buck.

Good luck, and may you be prosperous.

Frank

Click to expand...

Keeping the kit to a minimum and supplying just the castings (for what needs to be cast) and letting the builder make the items that can be easily machined from bar stock is probably a really good idea. after all most that are into the hobby have a supply of bar stock on hand, or wouldnt mind buying thier own bar stock so they would have extra on hand. I have purchased a couple of casting kits that have included some bar stock with them. The thing i dont like is that, say something in the plans calls for a 1/2" thick disc 1" in diameter, in the kit the cut you a piece of bar stock 1.050 X .550 and now your supposed to figure out how to hold it. Much easier having a piece several inches long.
If the kit called for gears, I would probably just supply them. I have one engine I'm designing (steam) now that calls for miter gears and can get a good deal on the gears so it just makes sense to supply them. I think this engine could be built on a 6" lathe, be nice to have a little sherline on hand to try it out...

LSEW said:

Here's my 2cents worth:
Since this is a hobby for you I'd say use your creative talents to make unique and unusual engines YOU are interested in. There will always be a few who are interested in picking up a casting kit like that. Don't go for the high volume crowd, it's too hard to hit and it's way too much work for a hobbiest. From reading this thread and lots of others, and input from folks at shows, it seems most of the folks who were interested in building authentic scale model engines have have essentially left the hobby. The old machinery nestalgia is disappearing. It is being replaced by hobbiests who want easy small and cheap. Not much of a challenge for those who want to create upscale value. If you can make models and sell enough extra to pay for a percentage of your hobby costs you are doing very well, in the mean time you will be contributing something of value to the hobby.

maury
www.lonestarengineworks.com

Click to expand...

Maury, thanks for the reply. what you say is true and brings a tear to my eye. Hopefully with time more will start showing an interest in building model engines. I have managed to get a couple young bucks interested and they now have thier lathes and are restoreing them with patience and dedication. So far they have only managed to make a nice pile of chips, but thier interest will keep and in time will learn the skills and build thier first engine.....now if they only stop borrowing my tools.....:wall:

This would be an interesting IC engine..