Australia and New Zealand team build anyone?

hi speed scrap · Oct 9, 2012

next question, where you gonna put it in??

haha

Need some holes to get the air/fuel (dust, etc!) in,
and also to let the flames out!

ausdier · Oct 9, 2012

Hi Herbie,
Sorry for the delay but I was flying yesterday.
Anyway here is what I came up with I hope it is what you are looking for.

With the push rod support info, from what I can see all the required info is there?

About the only info that isn't there is how to attach it so I presume it was ment tto be soldered on.
As for Mikes post #77, this is the reason why I made the offer back on post #30.
I find that about 90% of the older plans (pre CAD ) tend to have errors in them and even some of those done in 2D CAD can have errors.
After all computers are only as good as what we punch into them.;D

View attachment BASE.pdf

hi speed scrap · Oct 9, 2012

Hi Ausdier
did you resize the valve to get it to fit into the transfer port?

ausdier · Oct 9, 2012

Hi Dave.
Short answer is no, this is one of the areas where things didn't workout properly (valve 6.5 dia port 6 dia

) So if people wanted to sort out the plans I would have asked how people wanted to go in this area.
The same as the inlet side as there is no info about carby or anything.
This is where I was going to rely on everyones experiance and if some one couls supply information on what might work I would scale it if nessesary and then do workshop drawings for all.
This can still happen if people want as it would be a shame if this project stopped and parts that had been made were either scrapped (shelved) or had to be remade.

hi speed scrap · Oct 9, 2012

Hi Ausdier,
Thats ok, I will draw up something feasible for discussion in the next day or
so and put it on here.
Should we also look at the compression ratio, that is rather low in my opinion
other team members probably know better than me if it will be enough.
My calcs show less than 4 to 1.

Now that we are redesigning the engine should we watermark/copywrite
drawings etc? (redesigned for Australian conditions

)

As you say, would be a shame to drop the project.

Dave

tel · Oct 10, 2012

meanwhile, experimental plug #1, teflon insulator and stainless electrode. Might be next week before I can test it and move forward, town day tomorrow and heading down to Batemans for the weekend Fri.

Bastelmike · Oct 10, 2012

ausdier said:
Hi Herbie,
As for Mikes post #77, this is the reason why I made the offer back on post #30.
I find that about 90% of the older plans (pre CAD ) tend to have errors in them and even some of those done in 2D CAD can have errors.
After all computers are only as good as what we punch into them.;D

Hi Ausdier,

that's what I found out too. And even 3D models can have errors, they are easier to find in 3D, but only took a closer look.

During last weekend I've tried to draw the David Kerzel Engine in 3D as preparation for a metrification.
I'll make a separate thread on the problems I found in the first blueprints of the plan set.

Mike

Herbiev · Oct 10, 2012

Thanks Ausdier. The info on the pushrod support is there as you say. Just a bit hidden for a newbie. This CAD stuff seems great. Where is a good starting point to learn ?

ausdier · Oct 10, 2012

Hi Herbie,
Starting in CAD, you can go many ways.
You need to decide if you want to use a more mainstream CAD package like Soliddworks or if you want to try one of the many freebe versions out on the web.
If you pick a freeby you will have to learn what everything does through trial and error or by reading the help files and asking a lot of questions on line.
If you know someone close who already knows and uses CAD they may be able to help you in a few ways.

Or you can go to TAFE or TECH whatever it is called and learn Inventor, which is another more main stream CAD.
However whichever way you eventually go you will find it so helpfull in every aspect.
I use either Inventor Pro 2012 or Solidworks Pro 2012 myself, as well as Mastercam X5, for my CAM work and Mach 3 for when I eventually get one of my mills converted to CNC.
I know this may not be all that much help but there are a million different views and everyone has their own opinion.

AussieJimG · Oct 10, 2012

FWIW Herbie, I went to Tech and did AutoCAD which is way too expensive for home use. So I used TurboCAD to do 2D drawings. I didn't try 3D because I thought it was too hard.

Then John Stevenson from NZ introduced me to Alibre 3D as the simplest way to make 2D drawings. It is really easy to make the 3D parts and then you just tell the program to draw it in 2D - and you choose any or all of front, back, right, left, top, bottom and four isometrics. The dimensions are all there. And if you change the 3D model, the 2D drawing changes automatically.

You create each part and then put them together in the assembly. For engines, you can then turn the crankshaft and watch the piston move and even see where it goes (measure clearances etc). And change the colour of the parts to see what it will look like (if that's your bag).

You can print the drawings as .pdf if you wish and you can include .jpegs in the drawings as well.

It took no time at all to learn to use it and there are heaps of really good tutorials. You can even Google something you want to do and usually find the answer.

You can download the full version for 30 day trial for FREE and the Personal Edition (which is what I use) is only about $200.

Why not give it a go. You have nothing to lose (and I have nothing to gain, I am just a satisfied user).

Jim

Herbiev · Oct 11, 2012

Thanks Ausdier and Jim. Alibre sounds promising. 30 day free trial and the misus can get me the full version for xmas. Just gotta be a good boy for a few weeks

Herbiev · Oct 11, 2012

Got a small problem with threading the base plates. The tapping drill I resharpened halfway through proceedings drilled hole sizes varying from 2.7 to 3mm. Too big for a 3mm tap Would it be ok to get a new 3mm drill and tap the holes 3.5mm instead of 3mm. The only other option I can think of would be to fill the holes with "Liquid Steel" or similar and drill new holes or totally remake the whole base plates. Please advise.
Tia Herbie

ausdier · Oct 11, 2012

What if you just drilled 3mm through and then counter bored the bottom of the base and put a nut under there ?

tel · Oct 11, 2012

4BA might be a better choice - easier, I think, than M3.5 for most of us to get hold of.

Herbiev · Oct 11, 2012

Thanks for the replies. I'll take the 4BA route if thats ok with everyone. Just pm me if you want the counter bore method.

Bastelmike · Oct 12, 2012

M3.5 is probably no good solution if You guys want to buy bolts and nuts.
M3.5 is no standardized size in metric for bolts. Dunno the supply situation in Australia, but no local hardware store in Europe sells them. Just looked for two larger online-supplier for bolts and they don't list them either.

I know You can buy taps M3.5, but bolts might be difficult to get.
My advice don't go with M3.5

Mike

ausdier · Oct 12, 2012

Going 4BA might be fine but for me, and remember I am not building anything for this engine, is that I hate to mix differant styles eg metric and imperial in the same project. Just my 2c worth.

tel · Oct 14, 2012

It is better to avoid mixed marriages, yes, BUT in this instance 4BA works out just right, and they they are easily available.

Besides which, BA (British Association) are a metric based bolt in any case.

hi speed scrap · Oct 21, 2012

Sorry guys, been down the South Island for nearly a week, (Tassie, that is!)
Anyway, havent done much except the rough sketch link below.

http://i1356.photobucket.com/albums/q729/dieselfx1/TeamBuildPB3.jpg

Changes,
A 1 spigoted valve cage into Cyl head ports
A 2 Reduced valve dia to 5.7 mm
B Altered retainer to include in/ex ports and mounting capscrews
D Head includes transfer ports

I will post related blurb later tonight.

Dave

hi speed scrap · Oct 23, 2012

Well, tonight has arrived 4 days later!!

Mmm,, and I thought the above post might have drawn some comments

Anyway my main objective was to show my thoughts on an
inlet/exhaust port design as in sketch F, ( intake port 1 and
exhaust port 2), by altering the retainer as in sketch B,
showing the port 1. and the mounting bolts 2.
Cage would be pressed into retainer and drilled thru for
gas passage.
Most overall dimensions remain as original.
Looks a bit ugly! I really hope someones got a better idea!

what do you guys think?
Is it worth getting ausdier to draw it up properly?

The rest I was just fiddling with, thought I could make the
transfer port as part of the Cyl head as in sketch D and E,
with a blanking plate in the end as D 1.
my thought was of all that weight of carby, exhaust, valve gear
etc hanging off those two tiny bolts.
The other thing I was fiddling with was the dead volume of the
transfer port, ie, its affect on compression and inability to completely
expel exhaust gases.

typing finger has blister now, and brain hqas faded, good night!

Dave

Australia and New Zealand team build anyone?

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