Why does saliva produce a better looking finish than oil when machining steel?

This is the problem with modern day machinists, they want everything 'just so' and if it can't be bought, they don't want to know about it.

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It depends on your definitions of a machinist. Is a lathe operator or a mill operator a machinist they do machining.
There are production machinists that make a single part over and over or maybe an operation or two on that part before it goes to another machine to get finished. Then there are job shop machinists.and CNC machinists. Last but not least hobby machinists.
In the industrial world time is money . If shop time is worth $120 per hour the boss would much rather pay 6 bucks for a insert cutter with three edged than use 10 minutes( $20) worth of time to sharpen a bit. the same goes for home made recipes. In the home shop learn and do as you see fit it is your shop. And if folks do not learn and use the old ways to some extent they will be lost forever.

Everyone here has his or her goals in the home shop.And in the home shop money may be time. Most of us work and are lucky to get 8-16 hours a week in the shop . and if someone wants to learn to build an engine they may not want to use valuable time to make tools. time making tools is not wasted if you like it and enjoy the time doing it, It builds skills and the money that could have been spent on a tool can be used on materials.
It is a personal choice. What is right for a retired guy with a well equipped shop may not be the best choice for a working guy just starting out.
Yes learning eye hand coordination is valuable . Learning to draw free hand and on the computer is also valuable.
There is nothing wrong with learning bench work or learning CNC.

Bogs I respect you and you opinion. what you do and how you operate your shop is likely the best way for you.
Each one here has to learn his or her own path in this hobby. Many people, many counties many perspectives based on life experience and choices.
And yes i need to admit any tool whether a file or a cnc machine is ony as good as the operator behind it.
The most important tool in this hobby is the human brain.

We are all here to share our experience and show options. Only the guy or gal at the other end of the monitor can choose what tools and technologies books etc go into the shop. Also what projects come out.

Happy and safe machining to all.
Tin

Siddly,

Glad you enjoyed the read, I was attempting to show even a beginner, that complex looking parts are not that difficult to make if a little thought is put into the process, and the more experienced you became, the more complex parts could be tackled with just basic machining facilities.

I lost count of the number of downloads that book has had, plus also the number of running engines that have been made, it runs into many thousands for the 'book', and all for free!!!


Tin,

I don't think anywhere ever have I said that CNC and all of it's related sidelines is wrong, that is a personal choice on how people do things.

I was trying to get across that in many situations, problems CAN be solved by 'old time' methods without going to the expense of purchasing more and more tooling. Am I to be decried for doing that?

But please, just one more point, can you please stop using the phrase 'hobby machinists' or such terms.

I for one class that as an insult, and I am sure a lot of others do as well. I would prefer to be called a model engineer, which as far as I can make out, covers what we attempt to do here. It has a better 'ring' to it.


John

I don't think anyone is decrieing anything John. I for one agree with your position that many things can be done with simple methods. Often times that is not what people try first....but that's OK too. If you get where you want to be with some wiz bang piece of "kit" or a simple hand made reamer...but you had fun and learned something doing it either way.....I don't see the down side.......and agreed "Model Engineer" does have a better ring to it doesn't it?

Now what is it about Saliva that makes for a better finish....inquireing minds want to know! ;D....anybody?


Dave



PS I've read that cow's milk does wonders too....though I'm not trying that either! I can only imagine what my shop would smell like on a hot summer's day! :big:

Dave, your next task is to try it with beer. If it don't work, you can always just drink the rest ;D

-Ryan

John : I think we are both trying to remind folks to keep an open mind.

I don't think anywhere ever have I said that CNC and all of it's related sidelines is wrong, that is a personal choice on how people do things

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All methods are valuable to lean old and new another point we agree on. .

But please, just one more point, can you please stop using the phrase 'hobby machinists' or such terms.

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In no way did I intend to imply that one type of machinist is more or less skilled or valuable than another.
A hobby or maybe a better term Amateur is simply one that typicality has his or her own shop and machines for there own goals .Model engineer does indeed cover what we do . But not all folks that machine for a hobby that do not build models. yes most of us here, that is the focus and goal of the forum.

I agree also in the fact that learning simple basic tools and methods is valuable and arguably foundational. there are times when a file is a more suited tool to a job than a mill
It is all good bogs this is a hobby and we are all here for fun.
tin

steamer said:

Saliva John...

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Sounds like one of the Delta Blues singers I like to listen to in the workshop ;D

Rof}

That was worth the karma!

Looking back on this thread...there's a song there somewhere!

Dah Den da den...

steamer said:

Looking back on this thread...there's a song there somewhere!
Dah Den da den...

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One day I was workin' in da shop
My drills making that horrible sound
Took a look 'round da shelves...
...but spit was all I found!

Dah Den da den...

(Someone else take it from here )

Rof}

As much as I would love to! It's supposed to be my job to keep this thread on topic...... ;D

Dave

I expect if you dug deep enough (if the records aren't lost in some government archive) you'll find that our tax money funded a study on the use of saliva as a cutting fluid.

(Mostly) kidding. I suppose there are some enzymes or something in spit that somehow help lube/cool the cutting action in some way that is different than just oil but not being a chemist and/or biologist I wouldn't know what they are.

Reminds me of a tip I got from somewhere about driving nails in tough woods. Rubbing the nail across one's forehead or other oily/sweaty body part can make it drive much easier.

Paul

Rubbing the nail across one's forehead or other oily/sweaty body part can make it drive much easier.

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When joining the parts of a multi-segment fishing rod, it's common practice to first rub the male part of the connector along the side of the nose before inserting it into the ferrule/socket.

My dad, an avid fly fisherman, always referred to it as "face fat".

It used to be common practice to use "Nose grease" from the same location to cover up scratches on negatives when working in a darkroom.

Gross, but it does work fairly well.

My only concern with the use a saliva would be the controls to manufacture it. How could one assure the quality from one batch to the next? Certainly G.I.G.O. (garbage in, garbage out) applies. The range the properties of the saliva after a glass of water vs a glass of milk would be rather large. :

I seriously doubt that anyone who buys a jar of spit to use as a lubricant is going to worry much about quality control.

OTOH, the kinky sex market may have much more restrictive requirements. Can spit be pasteurized? Inquiring minds want to know.

It would very interesting in a CNC production environment with through the spindle tooling (coolant is passed through tool) running in conjunction with flood cooling. :

OK.....I give up... ;D


To the OP some 3 pages back.....I think this is going to be as good as it gets!......

My conscience is clear.......

Now how did that song go........? :

Dave

Dave-

Did you give up due to "dry mouth" from all the spitting? :big:

-Bob

Wow! When I started this topic with what I thought was a simple innocent question, I thought that I would get a straight answer from one or more old timers and that that would be that. I surely didn't imagine that the theme would seed so many and so varied developments.
In particular I followed with interest the debate on purchased special tools versus use of older and simpler methods. I recognized in these positions situations in which I have often found myself when, as far as I know from my experience, my present machines wouldn't do the job. Should I invest the time and effort (and sometimes cash) in order to have a new tool which will help me to do a better job? Or should I just get out the the hand tools and do my best at the bench?
- Almost always what I'm really after is quality of the product. I don't really care whether the job was done by hand or by machine. When buying shirts or souvenirs or whatever I`m not impressed by "Hand Made" labels.
- After all is there really a big difference between "Handmade with the help of a saw and a file" and "Handmade with the help of a lathe"? Both can come out well or come out badly - it depends on the skill of the builder in the use of his tools.
- If I decide to make a tool then it's usually because I'm pretty sure it will be useful and effective more that once.
- I have a very small workshop and part of deciding to make or buy a new tool is deciding where the heck to keep it.
Ian

Ian-

This has been a great thread. I learned something and got a few chuckles. I think this thread took the turns it did because it was your first. If it had been posted by one of the regulars, it would have taken a different path.

-Bob

Glad we all learned something...and I'm glad I can still type....throats a bit dry at the moment.... ;D


Dave