Stanley Style Steamer

[Bill Lawson]

Back to water, I had to use filtered and deionized water in an industrial application to avoid contamination. I believe that we could have used distilled water. When I will need water for steam applications I will use distilled water. Most grocery stores sell distilled water for about a dollar a gallon.

 

[William May]

The largest supplier of aluminum to the German aircraft factories in World War II was the Boeing Airplane Co. of Seattle, Washington. They delivered 400,000 lbs of aluminum to Germany every month during the peak of the war. You could make a lot of bratwurst cookers out of that!

 

[Richard Hed]

The largest supplier of aluminum to the German aircraft factories in World War II was the Boeing Airplane Co. of Seattle, Washington. They delivered 400,000 lbs of aluminum to Germany every month during the peak of the war. You could make a lot of bratwurst cookers out of that!

I know that Boeing did illegal things like pretend they had a lack of engines which in reality they were hiding. When they got busted for that, I heard, the army came in to the factories. They probably did sell aluminum to Germany up to the day that the US got into the war. After that, they woul;d have had an impossible way to ship it. They certainly would have had they had the chance. Like any corporation, they care more about profits than people's lives. Their main production facilities were in Everett, WA

 

[L98fiero]

They probably did sell aluminum to Germany up to the day that the US got into the war. After that, they woul;d have had an impossible way to ship it.

I'm guessing that the suggestion was that the aluminum was shipped to Germany by air, courtesy of the Allied Bomber Commands

 

[goldstar31]

Thanks Dan but the kids would view such things with a large mount of dismay--- despite one being rather good at centrifugally casting a mixture of gold and platinum

 

[William May]

I was referring to was the bomber losses. At the height of the war, the Germans were recycling 400,000 lbs. of aircraft aluminum each month. This was mostly shot down bombers and fighters. Boeing never actually SOLD any aluminum to the Germans, even before the war.
It was imported and delivered to them by the U.S. Air Force, as an intermediary.

 

[Richard Hed]

I was referring to was the bomber losses. At the height of the war, the Germans were recycling 400,000 lbs. of aircraft aluminum each month. This was mostly shot down bombers and fighters. Boeing never actually SOLD any aluminum to the Germans, even before the war.
It was imported and delivered to them by the U.S. Air Force, as an intermediary.

Ah, ya got me. How silly of me not understanding such a simple thing. Boeing DID, however, get caught hiding engines trying to force up the price and the army marched in. Well kept secret--
Boeing certainly doesn't want the public to know that type of info.

 

[William May]

Back to water, I had to use filtered and deionized water in an industrial application to avoid contamination. I believe that we could have used distilled water. When I will need water for steam applications I will use distilled water. Most grocery stores sell distilled water for about a dollar a gallon.

I absolutely cannot understand why people would use anything but distilled water or filtered rain water in a boiler. I have seen several boilers from "club" locomotives in "Model Engineer" that they had cut open, and they were completely packed with minerals. All I could think of was "Who is the IDIOT who let them abuse that locomotive in that way?" Boilers are so hard to make, and so expensive. that the ONLY thing I use in my boilers is distilled water, and usually with a boiler water treatment liquid, which helps keep any impurities in suspensions for blowdown.
If I ever loaned out a locomotive, and caught the user putting in regular water, I would never let him operate the locomotive again.

 

[Richard Hed]

I absolutely cannot understand why people would use anything but distilled water or filtered rain water in a boiler. I have seen several boilers from "club" locomotives in "Model Engineer" that they had cut open, and they were completely packed with minerals. All I could think of was "Who is the IDIOT who let them abuse that locomotive in that way?" Boilers are so hard to make, and so expensive. that the ONLY thing I use in my boilers is distilled water, and usually with a boiler water treatment liquid, which helps keep any impurities in suspensions for blowdown.
If I ever loaned out a locomotive, and caught the user putting in regular water, I would never let him operate the locomotive again.

virtually identical to the food we eat and eventually clogging our arteries.

 

[William May]

virtually identical to the food we eat and eventually clogging our arteries.

Yes, It's the equivalent of feeding your locomotive "Big Macs" until they have a "steam seizure" and roll over, wheels up.

 

[xtal_01]

So if I do go with a flash boiler, other than using "clean" (distilled or ??) water so the tubes don't scale up inside, is there any other major pitfalls or drawbacks I need to know about?

The only reason I am looking at a flash boiler is cost. I would love to have a standard boiler for my engine but a 7 - 10 hp boil costs $$$$$$$$'s

I am thinking that because there is no certification required .... and really it is just a coil of tubes .... it will cost (just estimating after reading many posts) from %15 - %25 of the cost.

Am I correct?

I am also thinking it is safer ????

I know you can still rupture a tube and have scalding steam but at least you are not building a pressure vessel that can explode.

Am I on the right track or ??????

I am only planning to run this engine say once a month ( few more times in the summer ... a few less in the winter ) .... just to demonstrate how a steam engine works and to drive one or two machines (maybe a drill press and lathe).

I live in Vermont so I will need to drain or put anti freeze in the tubes when finished for the winter months ... a few years ago we had a week in which almost every night hit -30 deg F.

 

[William May]

So if I do go with a flash boiler, other than using "clean" (distilled or ??) water so the tubes don't scale up inside, is there any other major pitfalls or drawbacks I need to know about?

The only reason I am looking at a flash boiler is cost. I would love to have a standard boiler for my engine but a 7 - 10 hp boil costs $$$$$$$$'s

I am thinking that because there is no certification required .... and really it is just a coil of tubes .... it will cost (just estimating after reading many posts) from %15 - %25 of the cost.

Am I correct?

I am also thinking it is safer ????

I know you can still rupture a tube and have scalding steam but at least you are not building a pressure vessel that can explode.

Am I on the right track or ??????

I am only planning to run this engine say once a month ( few more times in the summer ... a few less in the winter ) .... just to demonstrate how a steam engine works and to drive one or two machines (maybe a drill press and lathe).

I live in Vermont so I will need to drain or put anti freeze in the tubes when finished for the winter months ... a few years ago we had a week in which almost every night hit -30 deg F.

Well, the Stanley boilers NEVER had an explosive failure. When they do come to the end of their service life, they typically leak so badly that pressure can't be maintained, and people had to get a new one or pull the current one for repair.
What you might want to do is join the "Steam Automobile Club of America" and buy a set of plans for a Stanley boiler. They came in different horsepower ratings (steam generating capacity) for 10 hp, 20 hp, 30 hp, and 40 hp. Stanley engines, mostly having to do with the diameter of the drum and the length of the tubes. It would be fairly easy to tailor one to your requirements.

 

[xtal_01]

Well, the Stanley boilers NEVER had an explosive failure. When they do come to the end of their service life, they typically leak so badly that pressure can't be maintained, and people had to get a new one or pull the current one for repair.
What you might want to do is join the "Steam Automobile Club of America" and buy a set of plans for a Stanley boiler. They came in different horsepower ratings (steam generating capacity) for 10 hp, 20 hp, 30 hp, and 40 hp. Stanley engines, mostly having to do with the diameter of the drum and the length of the tubes. It would be fairly easy to tailor one to your requirements.

Fantastic! I definitely will get a set of plans ... didn't even know they were available.

I am not sure what I will use for fuel yet. I have a 2" unrestricted natural gas line run into the new shop .. but it is only at normal house pressure (7" WC) ... not sure if I can get enough btu's off that ... might need to run it on fuel oil or ???. I really don't like the idea of running a burner off gasoline ... scares me a bit.

Thanks!

Mike

 

[William May]

Fantastic! I definitely will get a set of plans ... didn't even know they were available.

I am not sure what I will use for fuel yet. I have a 2" unrestricted natural gas line run into the new shop .. but it is only at normal house pressure (7" WC) ... not sure if I can get enough btu's off that ... might need to run it on fuel oil or ???. I really don't like the idea of running a burner off gasoline ... scares me a bit.

Thanks!

Mike

They have MANY sets of plans related to steam automobiles. They also have the drawings for the Stanley Steam Automatics, and the Stanley Fuel Automatics, which are used to control the boilers. These are strictly mechanical, but they worked very well for all the Stanley cars ever built. You could always make them electronic, like they would be today. But, why bother?. They worked fine for over 30 years of Stanley production.

 

[xtal_01]

They have MANY sets of plans related to steam automobiles. They also have the drawings for the Stanley Steam Automatics, and the Stanley Fuel Automatics, which are used to control the boilers. These are strictly mechanical, but they worked very well for all the Stanley cars ever built. You could always make them electronic, like they would be today. But, why bother?. They worked fine for over 30 years of Stanley production.

Agree! I am an old time tech .... I have no problems with a mechanical system.

Thanks so much again for pointing me it he right direction!

Mike

 

[xtal_01]

Having never seen a flash boiler in person ... and after reading a number of posts and reading a few web pages ... I am just a bit confused.

I understand the principle of a flash boiler .... it is the water feed that has me wondering.

Does the feed pressure need to be above the output pressure of the steam?

If not, I assume the steam would prevent the water from feeding into the tube ... am I right or ???

I know the volume of water is very little compared to steam (if I remember steam increases by something like 1700 times the volume of water).

I was just going over a few diagrams on the web and didn't see any details on the pump.

Thanks!

 

[William May]

Having never seen a flash boiler in person ... and after reading a number of posts and reading a few web pages ... I am just a bit confused.

I understand the principle of a flash boiler .... it is the water feed that has me wondering.

Does the feed pressure need to be above the output pressure of the steam?

If not, I assume the steam would prevent the water from feeding into the tube ... am I right or ???

I know the volume of water is very little compared to steam (if I remember steam increases by something like 1700 times the volume of water).

I was just going over a few diagrams on the web and didn't see any details on the pump.

Thanks!

Stanley's had both power driven pumps (some off the rear axle, some off the engine crosshead, so whenever the engine or axle was moving, water was being pumped.) They also had hand pumps. All the pumps were easily capable of pushing water into the boiler coils at full steam pressure with no problems. If you "google" Stanley Steam Car Water Pumps, you can get an excellent presentation on how they worked. Stanley used duplex pumps, which meant they pumped on both the forward and aft stroke, as the plumbing was paralleled in the system.

 

[xtal_01]

Stanley's had both power driven pumps (some off the rear axle, some off the engine crosshead, so whenever the engine or axle was moving, water was being pumped.) They also had hand pumps. All the pumps were easily capable of pushing water into the boiler coils at full steam pressure with no problems. If you "google" Stanley Steam Car Water Pumps, you can get an excellent presentation on how they worked. Stanley used duplex pumps, which meant they pumped on both the forward and aft stroke, as the plumbing was paralleled in the system.

Thanks! Did not think anyone would put up a page just on the pump (or at least I missed it on my searches ... just kept seeing pages on boilers).

Found an awesome page on the pumps .... just want I figured ... capable of 600 PSIG! More than enough to force water into the tubes when at full pressure.

The page gave a good description of how the automatic water feed feature works.

Thanks again so much !!!!!!

Mike

 

[Steamchick]

Posted on "monotube boiler" message board for Taterfarmer:
For best efficiency, cold water injected at the cold end should maximise heat exchange. But what burner and hot-end temperature do you expect?
What pressure will you have as NWP? Normal Working Pressure equals the point at which you will reduce fire and NOT EXCEED during normal useage. Even though you may run at a lower pressure, NWP is the pressure for designing and rating the boiler, safety valves, control system, etc. For safety, you must follow the regulations. (ASME). I'm sure it is law in USA and affects (possibly negates) your insurance.

Stanleyhopeful. The same message applies to you. You need to decide How much Power you want from the boiler - to calculate the size of burner (after guessing at how efficient it will be!) and when you know the steam pressure and volume demand (max) for the main engine plus auxilliaries - like water injectors, steam engine powered alternator for powering electric fuel pumps, etc. - or whatever.... then you can study various designs of boiler to decide what is most suitable for your application. Probably a water drum water-tube vertical design of boiler will be most powerful for your application with continuously fed pre-heated water. What is the Bore and Stroke of your engine? What max pressure is it designed to run at? - That's a good starting point. What thickness is the copper tube you have? - Domestic water pipe probably doesn't have adequate wall thickness to meet regulations/pressure you will want if you go for a flash boiler.

Ignoring Regulations will likely end up with a highly dangerous steam leak, and possible legal problems. So do the decent thing and contact the local club and get copies of the regs for your country, then do the calculations before deciding what design of boiler you need. - You know it makes sense. A gas, oil or steam leak is very likely to cook the occupants of the steam car if anything should happen. If it all complies to the regs and has been certified, then those risks are so small you will get insurance, which is cheaper than your life or suffering from severe burns.
Sorry if this sounds dramatic, but we all want you to enjoy the hobby and not have an "accident". That would be the wrong story to post here.
K2

 

[Noitoen]

Check this out. The boiler is at the end