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Old 10-11-2008, 06:59 PM   #1
firebird
 
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Default Small gas torch

Hi

I've seen some small gas torches advertised, they are re-filled with cigarette lighter gas. Has anybody had any experience with them. Can they be used for silver soldering small parts together? I have a propane bottle and torch and oxy acet but both are a bit cumbersome when working on small parts

Cheers

Rich



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Old 10-11-2008, 07:21 PM   #2
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Default Re: Small gas torch

It depends on how how big the flame is and how big the piece is that needs to be silver soldered. I bought one that is just a throwaway lighter in a case with an adjustable flame. I haven't taken it apart to see how it is constructed.

The flame is about 3/8" long and 1/8" wide at the widest part of the cone. It burns at the flame temperature of the butane and will melt .031" silver solder on a very small part. For the size of part it can heat to soldering temperature, it would probably be better to use .015" silver solder.

It is more of a tool for jewelery work than model engines but for those who make jewelery size model engines it would be great. Moving up in size, there is one that attaches to the top of the disposable butane tank (about 1" x 4") that would be of more use.



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Old 10-11-2008, 07:37 PM   #3
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Default Re: Small gas torch

Quote:
Originally Posted by firebird
Hi
Hi, Rich,

Quote:
Can they be used for silver soldering small parts together? I have a propane bottle and torch and oxy acet but both are a bit cumbersome when working on small parts
Define "small".

Also, what kind of silver solder do you mean?

My heat sources at present are a Smith mini-torch (currently Oxy/Acetylene but will be Oxy/Propane when I can get to the welding supply house) and a Weller Butane torch. Sometime in the near future, I'll be adding a Propane/Air mini-torch from Micro-Mark. (This doesn't include the alcohol lamp & blow tube for really small work.)

All of them will get up to the required temperature required for most common silver solders (roughly 1400o) and, for very small items, can handle the much higher temperatures (around 2300o)required by jeweler's silver solder. Where the difference comes in is in how much is needed to heat the parts being soldered. My Weller can handle the really small pieces while the Propane/Air one should be able to manage the vast majority of the remainder which will leave the Smith for the "heavy lifting" (which, as you might tell, isn't all that heavy.)

So, building a boiler - ain't gonna hack it. Doing fitting makeups for the tubing et al required - an excellent choice. Anything else ... give it a shot.

Oh, and if you smoke, they make great windproof lighters.

Best regards,

Kludge (waiting for the coffee to brew)
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Old 10-11-2008, 07:45 PM   #4
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Default Re: Small gas torch

Hi Kludge

Small = silver soldering the nipples into 1/8 copper pipe, attaching parts less than 1/4 square, that kind of small.

Cheers

Rich

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Old 10-11-2008, 07:58 PM   #5
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Default Re: Small gas torch

The lighter torches are really only for very small jobs. I most frequently use a standard DIY shop butane torch and if I need a lot of heat a standard gas and forced air torch.

Silver soldering works well with propane and air from a small compressor. I have used a 12 volt car tire compressor in the past with a standard propane tank - The torch came from a jewellery supply house and provided a fine hot flame.

Making an enclosed oven from fire bricks also helps keep the heat where it is needed.

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Old 10-11-2008, 09:51 PM   #6
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Default Re: Small gas torch

Quote:
Originally Posted by firebird
Small = silver soldering the nipples into 1/8 copper pipe, attaching parts less than 1/4 square, that kind of small.
Okay, this works. Not a lot of mass to carry the heat away (the major problem in this situation in most parts of the galaxy) and plenty of heat for the sort of solder you'll be using. Otherwise, it's Plan 9 a la Rick.

BEst regards,

Kludge
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Old 10-11-2008, 10:52 PM   #7
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Default Re: Small gas torch

G'day Firbird

i have one that refills from a butane lighter refill

i use it a lot it has a good output if it is a bit heavy on the butane but i can get steel rod red hot in minutes
( 1/4" and 1/2 ") i use it for silver solder and light brazing even

it will put out a blue flame 3" long for about 15 minutes before needing a refill and a 1" flame i have not used so long it needs a refill but guess 30 minutes.

hope this helps



cheers

jack

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Old 10-11-2008, 11:41 PM   #8
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Default Re: Small gas torch

Depending on the type and and job at hand some of the smaller newer torches can do a great job and be flexible enough that they can be used for other things to.

The old standard prest-o-lite torch rig air /acetylene with assorted tips below



a newer style developed propane tank torch comes in two versions one for the small tanks and the fat boy tanks as they are calling them now and one set up for what they call the bulk or BBQ type tanks in the US.


Here is a good source for assorted brands and styles of torches for modeling and jewelry/silersmithing work.
http://www.kingsleynorth.com/skshop/search_results2.php?action=search&keys=&catID=214& Submit=+Search+ 10 pages of torches and lots of other stuff you never knew you needed till you saw it.
The EZ torch is also sold as the shark brand torch.http://www.ottofrei.com/store/home.php?cat=1238

The problem I have with the butane refillable torch I have. Is it seems to run out at the worst moment in the job no matter when you refill it.

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Old 10-12-2008, 12:04 AM   #9
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Default Re: Small gas torch

A photo, or even a link to what you are referring too, would be extremely helpfull, then you get a definite answer if it will do the job or not.


regards greenie

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Old 10-12-2008, 12:48 AM   #10
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Default Re: Small gas torch

Quote:
Hi Kludge

Small = silver soldering the nipples into 1/8 copper pipe, attaching parts less than 1/4 square, that kind of small.

Cheers
Hi Rich
1/4 " Part but how long is the 1/8' pipe? That matters also
Hilmar


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