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Old 08-23-2017, 09:25 AM   #1
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Default ML4 setup

Been a while since I visited this forum.

I've been busy with the kids, but I've also been hard at work

Having got the lathe in the shed I then went to see how far out the tail stock was, it needs some fine tuning. *

So a shopping list. - belt for drive, a spanner to fit the bolts on the gibs, and x8 M8 nuts bolts washers

Time to set it up properly


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Old 08-23-2017, 09:44 AM   #2
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How do I embed photos to the page??

Managed to load from my mobile, sorry about the top three photos


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Old 08-23-2017, 12:26 PM   #3
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Done a little more in between looking after the kids.*

This is my first attempt at setting up a tool in the tool post and shimming it to the correct height, sorry poor lighting so pics aren't great, need to shed some light on the situation. **

This was one method to check, using the jaws of the 4 jaw to check it's alignment as the cross slide was fed across it's face. I think it's either spot on or just above centre. Will find out when the chuck starts spinning. *(The jaws are not clamped tight against one another, not even touching).*

Everything has been given an oil over too. And is a lot smoother now.*
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Old 08-24-2017, 07:56 PM   #4
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Hi, just found a few issues with the lathe. First one that there appeared to be a tight spot on the top slide. This was just over around 1/2" of travel. I slackened the gibs off and it was still there until the gibs were so loose that top slide rocked back and forth. Ive traced it to the bolt that secures the top slide to the cross slide. When I slackened this off the binding disappeared completely. And felt the movement whilst I retightened it. Should I be worried about this as surely that means that the casting for the top slide is been bent, thus the cross slide cannot be level Or am I just been a brute when I tighten the bolts up
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Old 08-26-2017, 09:06 AM   #5
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Perhaps you continue to be wandering from the accepted norms of machine tool practice.

Do you actually know if your lathe will cut metal? I am putting the next question of accuracy into a pigeon hole for another time.

Have the wheels turned? Again, your earlier post suggests that you have oiled it( and yourself) but as one excellent poster has suggested, do you now know where every nut and bolt is- and secondly, what does it do?

Returning to lathes, it is necessary to follow Baz's column and he know PRECISELY what his lathe will do. Regarding the present question, might I ask you whether this point where the top slide sticks of whether you determined this by cranking the handle or did you removed the feed nut and feed screw assembly? Did you remove ALL the gunge and oil and adjust the gibs for smooth operation using the feel of your hands pushing the slide up and down and feeling for an even tightness ?Continuing the quest for answers, if the slide fails to provide an even slide, have you blued the non gibbed side and looked for 'something which is high or worn convex or concave?
If there is a problem, what remedial steps have you done or propose? Again, once you are sure that the working face of the gib is OK, Is the gib itself beyond reproach? If it is not flat or worn, what steps have you or what do you propose to correct the error?

Once you have got things right, you can blue one face and offer it to some essentially flat 'reference' like a piece of thick plate glass or granite headstone or whatever. Again, you scrape and blue and scrape and blue till the whole thing is flattish- and then you start to either blow your brains out or determine the spots of contact per square inch . Then you tackle the next part and you don't forget the arris raised by the tool holding bot- or dare I say it- tee bolt?

My old battered lathe with the paint missing off or not on? Oh, yes, it's flat.

Something to think about- which applies to all old lathes regardless of cost and size.

Cheers


Norm
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Old 08-26-2017, 11:27 AM   #6
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Thanks for your reply Norm. When I bought the lathe it all turned freely and no binding. Though there was a lot of gunge and old oil on the bed and slides. I sprayed the whole machine with WD40, and wiped it down with a rag. Making sure not to spray the pulleys. I took the top slide and gib out again wiping these down. And wiped the top slide casting that bolts to the cross slide. I wiped the top surface of the cross slide bed down and removed this by fully unscrewing. Then pulling off the last 1/4", looking at both the threads they looked in good condition and also looked at the nuts they screw into cleaning these out with a tooth brush and more wD40. I didn't go as far as the saddle but I checked the half nuts engage and also traverse the saddle, using the dial indicator to make sure the thread was in the right place. I reassembled in reverse order using slide oil given to me by stilldrilling (david) adjusting the gibs so as they moved easily with as little sideways movement as possible. Oiling and using slide oil on the mating surfaces. The motor was also tested to ensure it runs. I cleaned over the chuck and spindle the same removing the jaws in order and cleaning out the gunk and metal chips that were in there before replacing in the correct seqence.

My issue has come around 2 months after all this, I adjusted the clamp for the top slide turning it so it sits at a slight angle into the lathe. The tight spot was at 90 degrees to an imaginary centre line between the two top bolt once past this point it turned freely again. Once I slackened the Larger of the two clamp bolts the tight spot had disappeared. (It was only about 3 degrees of movement on the bolt)

I haven't done any scraping of surfaces as I want to be able to bolt the lathe down and take measurements to make sure what I do makes improvements.
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Old 08-26-2017, 09:22 PM   #7
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Here's some pics of the cross slide and top slide. I decided i would use Norms suggestion for setting the gibs up by hand feel first.

Any suggestions on removing these two screws for the apron? They've been chewed up before, and putting a screwdriver (of the right size) to them doesnt do nothing. But I'd like to get them off to inspect the half nuts and give them a good clean too.

I know that very soon I will have to sort the surfaces out, but I haven't the means to do that currently. So I'll persevere with the shoddy set up, trying to set everything up nice and neat.

Out of interest what is the thread on the grub screws as they are missing any locking nuts, both top and cross slide.
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Old 08-26-2017, 10:55 PM   #8
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Ok engage red face!

After stopping the top slide and cross slide assembly off the top of the lathe, I took it apart tonight to see what was binding. After reassembly the same thing happened again. So backed off the Larger of the two nuts securing the top slide. And it turned freely. I nipped it up again and binding. I happened to look over to the other side where the nut was. Funny how a hex shaped nut can make all the difference. It also explains why the top slide suddenly went slack, the day after adjusting the gibs. The edge of the nut was making contact with the top slide casting. When I had adjusted the gibs I must have adjusted them against the corner if the nut. I had moved the top slide to a different angle to play with set up. The edge of the nut must not have made any contact. So the top slide suddenly was very slack.

Funny how it's always the simple things! And new part to make on the list. A bolt with a smaller head so it doesn't make contact with the top slide. At least I may get some practice at screw cutting lol.
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Old 08-27-2017, 12:09 AM   #9
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I was going to say that if it only happened in one spot check for
outside interference such as that nut,before stripping down
No need to be red faced it happens to us all.My comment would
be that from the photos the cross slide seems in bad condition
Try cleaning up with a smooth file,emery and maybe a scraper
Polish up the mating parts of the dovetail and gibbs with wet/dry
and wd40 in the direction of travel.I think we appreciate you are a newcomer
with little tooling or facilities so simple /inexpensive things are the way to go
for now.As Norm says,a good clean and check free movement before getting
the lathe running.The sooner the better,then the problems start to surface
If you can turn a piece of mild steel then your halfway there.First job might be to skim your dead centres if their soft and machine a little clearance on that nut.Keep posting your
problems and we will help you sort them out.Remember that photos speak
a thousand words.Dont worry about a red face.I cringe when i remember
to the first time i tried top up the oil in a car,thru the dipstick hole
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Old 08-27-2017, 02:52 AM   #10
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After our phone discussion last night, I've also had a look at your photos and extra questions.
Guessing about the grub screws, I would hazard a guess that they will be 2BA. These don't come cheap to replace. The rest of small threads will probably be in BSF sizes. Mine are!

Looking at the top slide suggests that the ways were 'fine milled' rather than fine milled and then hand scraped. Following Baz's comments, I often use a 600g diamond sharpening 'stone' to remove Arris's where threads and nuts have ragged. I've been cutting tee nuts for the Sieg and these come off the 6 x4 saw rather raggy. I should change the blade but-BUT?

As to removing the saddle etc, you can use these extractors which are on sale today at either Aldi or Lidl but remember that you must have new bolts to replace them.

Thanks for the 'natter'

Norm


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