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Old 08-02-2016, 11:30 PM   #21
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John
I'm fully aware of where the poster is situated. Years and years ago I posted in Model Engineer how I had done up a worn out Myford ML7 with nothing initially more than Blancharding the top. The cost, I believe was minimal.

Our poster claims that he has read much in the MEWs and I did exactly the same- this evening. Restoring a flat bed lathe is a pretty straight forward business and perhaps getting feed screws and whatever are available through RDG.

Myford used to claim that a Myford could be reconditioned 6 times before scrapping. My ancient Super 7B is running on Turcite which is internationally available. It was with this background that I reflected my experiences( plural)

What our individual choices in machine tools is immaterial. All that I expressed here and in the past may well be mine but it has been essentially practical and possible for a beginner to emulate. I did my homework before writing and bore in mind that two guys living 'Down under' had Myford lathes. One was Neville Shute Norway aka Neville Shute in Oz and the other was Jack Radford in Timaru, New Zealand.

I hope that this clears a bit of the matter

Regards


Norman


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Old 08-03-2016, 01:13 AM   #22
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Default Setting up Shop Questions - from an NZ learner

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Originally Posted by joco-nz View Post
Thanks Wizard69. Good points confirming some of my research and some new stuff i hadnt been aware of or thought of.



This "zeroing in" on the right sized lathe is tricky. :-)
This is certainly the hardest part of the buying decision. You need to figure out what is right for you. Like I said I've seen some guys to some amazing work at the model engineering shows using Sherline or Tiag sized machines. This of course wouldn't suit everybody.

What you will want to avoid is doing what I did and buy a lathe because it was easy to get into the shop. In retrospect it is just a bad way to decide upon machinery size.
Quote:



I keep starting out at an SC4 then next thing i know i'm lusting after an AL-960B. I probably need to stand beside some of this stuff to really appreciate siE and the amount of space they will take.


Shop space is a legitimate issue when buying a machine. Some times it makes more sense to buy a bigger lathe and put off a mill until more room can be had. Remember for years, probably decades, model engineers often only had a lathe to work with, maybe a drill press
Quote:

On the second hand front I still have a number of automatic alerts on TradeMe (NZs version of eBay or Craigs Lists). But my issue there is i wouldnt know a reasonable deal v's a lemon. At least if i get new i have a retailer to hold to account.



Cheers,

J.

There are some awfully good deals to be had on used machinery though! I've missed out on more than one, being late to a sale or whatever. The real problem here isn't the condition of the lathe but rather being in position so to speak. It can be very frustrating to mis these opportunities.

The classic example here is me working the night shift and planning on hitting an estate sale early in the morning after leaving work. The estate wasn't far from the plant so I drove over and knew immediately upon arrival that I had missed out on something good. I knew this based in the number of pickup trucks at the sale. In any event looked the house over and it turns out the guy that died was a tool and die maker and had a rather densely packed cellar full of tools. Almost all of them sold before I arrived at very good prices. One of those items was a very nicely equipped Southbend lathe. The moral of the story is the early bird gets the worm.

The bargains are out there!


As for the risk of a lemon that exists with used as well as Chinese imports. In the used realm it might help to get my n contact with a local that knows machinery to give the machine Once over. Not every defect will be caught but a real lemon will stand out.


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Old 08-03-2016, 03:41 AM   #23
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What utter rubbish. Sorry, Sir- but it is.

In January I saw local advert for a little Myford ML10- when I was about to go to buy something 'Far Eastern' at the London Show.

What I got was rather surprising- for 550. I got the classic machine which used to be supplied with a faceplate and a hard and soft centre plus the 'cogs'. None of this usually useless 3 jaw chuck thing that is a tempter sold by people who have never used a lathe anyway. So this little thing had one. Quite decent one and it also had a 4 jaw independent chuck and a catchplate too. There was a several drill chucks and a rotating centre and a number of centres and 1 and 2MT blanks. To add to the interest, I got a vice, an angle plate and a fixed vertical slide. Then came the 'goodies'. There was a Potts milling spindle which few understand but the usual going price is about 400 to the average watch and clock guy. Again, I got a Cleeve swing tool. The earlier one- not the retracting one advertised by Hemingwaykits today. In addition was a rear parting tool. Not exactly my idea of an answer to a Maiden's Prayer but OK. There was a huge assortment of hss and carbide tooling. I've enough but so what?
What fooled me was a quick change tool holder and bits. Unfortunately, it seemed that it had been a bad buy because the tool height was 1/8th out
but heigh ho!

Then I got lost. The Bradley book and the official manual came. There were alterations. The dials had been changed from the rather miserable zinc ones to being able to adjust. Then the leadscrew had a dog clutch which doesn't come with the lathe from the factory. Nice though.
Then came a broken but possibly repairable change gear mechanism. It was made- I've just found out by a bloke called Dave Noble. Oh, I forgot the fixed and running steadies. Silly me.

In another box is a set of die holders and sweep face cutters The latter little goodies are like hen's teeth.

Not bad for half a grand?

Norman

Ok , there is a serious difference in exchange rate between the pound and Aussie dollar the NZ dollar is even worse 500 is around $900 au . Good Myford lathes are not exactly thick on the ground in Australia let alone in New Zealand and usually any you find are either flogged out or the owner knows the unit is good so wants top dollar .
I have seen ml10 lathes on eBay fetch $1500 au , most of the stuff that turns up is junk or has been sitting in a shed or barn and rusted to a point it is near unrecognisable.Second hand retailers of machinery pretty much disappeared long ago in Australia , Hare and forbes used to be one . We don't have model exhibitions of the caliber that the UK enjoy unfortunately.
I would love a good Myford ,Boxford or Hercus but i got sick of looking and when i did find something i thought could be repairable with minimal work it was either interstate and freight was a killer or was it bidded beyond what i thought a reasonable price.
Last year a few Hercus 260 lathes appeared on eBay all three of them from a school or college . all 415 v three ph they went for over a grand each and one bidder bought all three , they were not exactly immaculate ,none had change gears and various parts were missing or broken .
Then there is the issue of parts ,if they have to come from overseas there is the cost of freight etc if you can find them that is and as the Australian made lathes stop being made long ago if you're very very lucky you may find NOS but it will cost $$$ .
Please understand Sir the used machinery scene out here in the Colonies is vastly different to the UK and USA especially for machines that are of a size that a model engineer would use .
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Old 08-03-2016, 05:16 AM   #24
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Clears aged throat

A few days ago, I was having dinner in Hong Kong with friends before going out to Fiji. I'm pretty well 'au fait' with prices.

Again, I still have Oz and Kiwi connections. Whatever is said, it is only a day's flying away. Knackering, jet lag and whatever and probably only the price of a lathe - for us poor Pommie bastards.

However, despite the fact that I 'retired' some 31 years ago, I'm still 'with it'- or so people say.

What has to be said is that using old worn out machines comes as no surprise and if there is financial difficulties- a worn out machine can be reconditioned.

Rust can be cleaned whilst dimensional in -accuracy can be compensated for. If the maximum length that needs to be machined is a mere 2" or 5mm, that is all that is needed. to be reasonably used.

Am I right? The usual worn part of many so called worn out lathes is- 6" from the chuck. Now that decent filled epoxies are available, that problem- which beset us old timers- is no longer present.

Cheers

Norman
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Old 08-03-2016, 06:16 AM   #25
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Gents. I can confirm there have been and continue to be a good trickle of Myfords and the odd Colchester appearing second hand on NZ's TradeMe. For anything not a nice red colour all over the non painted parts they typically go for a healthy NZD2,000 odd. I have seen a good number of the nice examples going for around the NZD 2,500. Some of the larger stuff climbs into the NZD 4,000+ mark. You can get things cheaper and of course those items are usually a healthy reddy rusty colour, or have bits missing etc etc. Can they be brought up to spec? In most cases I suspect almost certainly. Do I have the skills, experience and confidence to do so? Ummm No. Not yet. Maybe in time I will feel confident enough to tackle such a project. Heck in time I HOPE to be looking to take on something like that. I think restoring a classic or vintage lathe could be a heap of fun. (says he ignoring the health of his bank balance).

As is often the case there are other challenges in this second hand market game. Many are in locations that are a minimum 3hr drive (6hr round trip) or worse 7hrs one way, which becomes a bit of a challenge with work and family commitments. And I struggle with catching a plane to see a lathe that I might not like, or even miss out on the bidding. The few that I would have liked to see were at the other end of the country or sold before a weekend came by or I just plain missed seeing them advertised until too late.
As has been noted, the early bird does in indeed get the worm. But I'm okay with that. I'm working within my constraints.

Cheers,
J.
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Old 08-03-2016, 06:57 AM   #26
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Do yourself a favor and try and get a lathe with at least a 38mm spindle bore (AL320), believe me you will kick yourself if you don't.

Give your local High School and tech colleges a call, sometimes they sell of surplus lathes and equipment.
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Old 08-03-2016, 08:59 AM   #27
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Personally, I am in the Buy new gear camp. I started with a used lathe which helped me understand that I wanted. Advice to buy used old iron isn't relevant in this country and probably for our NZ neighbours. Every time I buy something used, I end up spending more getting it up to speed the way I want. We have good trade connections with Asia which is a lot closer to us than our US and UK friends so the odds favour new chinese gear.

We were talking about this the other day at work. There are any number of lathes languishing in workshops around the country that are bigger than we need at home. But the point is you can buy them for $500 to $1000. People buy them and think they have a bargain until they realise there is no tooling and then find out how much it costs to get them set up. They probably need 20mm tools so it adds up quickly. The workshop accross the road from us bought one home exactly like this. It came with one QCTP adapter so they probably are up for another $1k for tool holders alone. I felt sorry for them and sold them a spare chuck I had at home for $50... their first tool.

As said by others grab the AL320G if you can afford it and start making some parts. Don't get the matching stand, make your own and you'll be fine. Why do I say that?...
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Old 08-03-2016, 09:26 AM   #28
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Personally, I am in the Buy new gear camp. I started with a used lathe which helped me understand that I wanted. Advice to buy used old iron isn't relevant in this country and probably for our NZ neighbours. Every time I buy something used, I end up spending more getting it up to speed the way I want. We have good trade connections with Asia which is a lot closer to us than our US and UK friends so the odds favour new chinese gear.

We were talking about this the other day at work. There are any number of lathes languishing in workshops around the country that are bigger than we need at home. But the point is you can buy them for $500 to $1000. People buy them and think they have a bargain until they realise there is no tooling and then find out how much it costs to get them set up. They probably need 20mm tools so it adds up quickly. The workshop accross the road from us bought one home exactly like this. It came with one QCTP adapter so they probably are up for another $1k for tool holders alone. I felt sorry for them and sold them a spare chuck I had at home for $50... their first tool.

As said by others grab the AL320G if you can afford it and start making some parts. Don't get the matching stand, make your own and you'll be fine. Why do I say that?...
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Old 08-03-2016, 06:28 PM   #29
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Rod - i'm definately heading the AL-320G way. I believe i have the space and it fits within budget with a healthy tools allowance after that. Although I do want to make as much tooling as I can. My self imposed apprenticeship if you will. Plus i just like making stuff. No matter what "stuff" is.

Heh - custom stand, wonder where that came from.

Plan is to create this style stand (per your Shed thread).

Looks like Machinery House have the 3 draw units with a solid weight rating: https://www.machineryhouse.co.nz/T701

I can get slightly cheaper units with more draws from bunnings, just not sure how robust they are. Plan to have a look in the weekend.

Do you happen to have key dimensions on the AL-320G? The manual is crap and does not give any info on (that I can find) length, width, mounting hole layout or size. Want to start modeling this table in CAD but cant be bothered starting with limited ro poor data.

Cheers,
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Old 08-03-2016, 06:40 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by goldstar31 View Post
Clears aged throat

A few days ago, I was having dinner in Hong Kong with friends before going out to Fiji. I'm pretty well 'au fait' with prices.

Again, I still have Oz and Kiwi connections. Whatever is said, it is only a day's flying away. Knackering, jet lag and whatever and probably only the price of a lathe - for us poor Pommie bastards.

However, despite the fact that I 'retired' some 31 years ago, I'm still 'with it'- or so people say.

What has to be said is that using old worn out machines comes as no surprise and if there is financial difficulties- a worn out machine can be reconditioned.

Rust can be cleaned whilst dimensional in -accuracy can be compensated for. If the maximum length that needs to be machined is a mere 2" or 5mm, that is all that is needed. to be reasonably used.

Am I right? The usual worn part of many so called worn out lathes is- 6" from the chuck. Now that decent filled epoxies are available, that problem- which beset us old timers- is no longer present.

Cheers

Norman

Yes machines can be reconditioned but once again there are issues :
Cost of regrinding the bed /saddle and fitting turcite strips , this would cost more than the machine would ever be worth and it is not something that can be done at home so you are at the mercy of the shop that does this type of work.
Spindle bearings wear and can be difficult to fix especially for someone with little or no experience , once again you can get a machine reconditioning shop to do it but that cost thing keeps popping up .
About 15 years ago i was offered a cincinatti lathe to play with , i knew the bed had some wear so i inquired about a regrind for the bed .
From memory it was more than my AL50 lathe cost new - around a grand and that depended on how much they had to grind off the bed and saddle then there was the refitting etc , it doesn't take much to drain a couple of grand out of ones bank account doing this as the labour costs here are pretty scary !
Unless the person gets a kick out of fixing old machines and knows exactly what to look for i would generally point the person towards a new unit or next best thing one from a school or training institute as they generally get little use. They usually have some sort of damage to the bed under the chuck from dropped chucks or chuck keys or the end of the compound slide As they tend to get driven into a revolving chuck by some kid .
If you can live with some scars sometimes they can be a good buy , as can be lathes from tool rooms where a toolmaker has looked after it , sometimes these sit idle for long periods and have little wear .


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