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Old 08-20-2008, 11:09 PM   #41
Kludge
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Default Re: Hardware Store Boiler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogstandard
BTW, I don't class myself as an expert in anything, just a layman with a bit of experience. So if I use layman's language, it gets the info over so that almost anyone can understand.
And? Clear, concise, easy to understand and relaxed. I really do think we need to encourage you to write a book - an assemblage of things like that as they come up for ... well, just about anyone interested in model machining.

Of course, all the folks here get autographed copies.

Best regards,

kludge


 
 
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Old 08-21-2008, 03:00 AM   #42
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Default Re: Hardware Store Boiler

Kludge,

Been there, got the t-shirt. In fact you have posted on the back end of the resurrection of the old post.

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist....hp?topic=615.0

John


 
 
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Old 08-21-2008, 04:04 AM   #43
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Default Re: Hardware Store Boiler

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Originally Posted by Bogstandard
Been there, got the t-shirt.
Whoa! We have t-shirts here too?

Quote:
In fact you have posted on the back end of the resurrection of the old post.
I've downloaded those pages and marveled at the language. The design too but the language meant a lot. Both in school learning how to be an aircraft mechanic and later a ME, then spending part of my career working at a college (I did a little teaching but mostly I was one of those evil & much hated admin critters), I learned that language meant a lot. That you're a lay person with experience seems to be a magic combination because you do have the experience to make things and the language skills to make it a lot easier for complete morons like me understand how to do the same thing. Thankfully, the vast majority of folks here are significantly more intelligent so if I understand what you're saying/doing, anyone can.

So, a compromise? No book but make the explanations like the one how you did the flanges available as a download in some form or another? They're already written so there's no real extra effort and collecting them will be a lot easier that doing a copy/paste/convert to PDF. (Er, wait. Can I admit to doing that?)

BEst regards,

Kludge
 
 
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Old 08-21-2008, 02:14 PM   #44
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Default Re: Hardware Store Boiler

Sorry for no reaction on the flange question Kludge, nothing wrong with them providing the mating faces don't resemble a plowed field, or better still they do but with a suitable gasket material between them. Have also seen flared ends on pipes of model steam fittings, like car brake pipe ends, the instructions for the HSB state this on the leader to the heater coil. You could use straight tubes for the water tubes, but what the designer has done it to try to get as much heat extraction from the blowlamp flame - Flash steam boilers are coiled tube - normally, if you can call flash steam normal.
Just a thought John and Marv. If you both set small bank accounts on opposite sides of the pond, you could send each other "" Presents "" An oppo of mine in a "Far eastern" country does this. A matter of mutual trust, but Hey, can't see a problem with you two, OH buns, ANYBODY on this site, although SOMEONES reference to Yorkshiremen has created an entry "In Zee Book" (Think his name begins with D )
You learn something new every day, never heard of the taper taps and dies for ME sizes before, seems a contradiction in our sizes for the problem of locking a taper. Seen the NPTF threads in proper engineering, but they can be machine cut, just never come across them in our sizes.
Regards Ian.
 
 
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Old 08-21-2008, 03:46 PM   #45
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Default Re: Hardware Store Boiler

Ian,

Really, as far as I am aware, MTP are only used by the die hards who require perfection in authenticity, replicating tapered pipe fittings, I suppose if they were made more available here, like ME taps and dies, people would start to use them. But as it is, most people are like yourself, and have never heard of them. I only knew about them because I was nosey one time at a model engineering display, and asked how the chap had made such nice, compact fittings (as usual, once you get these chaps going, they tell you their life history, but I did learn a bit about tapered taps and dies in the modelling world).
I would also suspect they produce a much better seal over a shorter screw in distance because of the taper.

Maybe Marv can enlighten us a little more.

John
 
 
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Old 08-21-2008, 04:12 PM   #46
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Default Re: Hardware Store Boiler

I don't think I can provide much in the way of enlightenment.

One almost never sees them called out on this side of the pond except in the case of plans derived from British sources or model designers who cut their teeth on back issues of "Model Engineer".

As Bogs indicated, their main application is to provide good sealing, just as in full-size practice. The engine I'm working on right now calls out MTP for removable oiling bungs in the top cylinder covers. If I had the tap and die, I'd make them as per plan. Lacking the tackle I will probably do something different or ignore them completely since the boiler already has a displacement oiler.

Another application is for commercially supplied accessories, e.g., safety valves, gauges, etc.. Some of the older vendors used to supply these with preformed MTP threads. However, this practice seems to be waning.

With the advent of modern sealants, the need for MTP is reduced although in an application where the part must be oft removed and replaced they still make sense, I suppose.
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Old 08-21-2008, 11:50 PM   #47
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Default Re: Hardware Store Boiler

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Originally Posted by Circlip
Sorry for no reaction on the flange question Kludge, nothing wrong with them providing the mating faces don't resemble a plowed field, or better still they do but with a suitable gasket material between them.
I like gaskets anyway. I winder if cutting very shallow concentric rings on the mating surfaces so they kind of mesh together might not help them seal. Hmmm ... something to consider ...

Quote:
You could use straight tubes for the water tubes, but what the designer has done it to try to get as much heat extraction from the blowlamp flame - Flash steam boilers are coiled tube - normally, if you can call flash steam normal.
They're kind of like the flash water heaters we used on boats - well, some used. There was no tank but taking a shower burned a lot more propane than it was worth.

I'm looking at something like an alcohol burner under the length of the tubing which might not heat as fast but I think would be a lot more efficient. The tubing would be made so it's always climbing cold end to hot end which would make it look almost like a road with a bunch of switchbacks on it and it should be enough to raise the 15 pounds or so pressure I want.

Thanks for your thoughts, Ian. I appreciate them.

Best regards,

Kludge
 
 
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Old 08-22-2008, 02:38 AM   #48
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Default Re: Hardware Store Boiler

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Originally Posted by mklotz
I don't think I can provide much in the way of enlightenment.
So much for Zen.

Quote:
As Bogs indicated, their main application is to provide good sealing, just as in full-size practice.
But then, in addition to that, there is the occasional fool like me who thinks they just look good. The taps and dies are expensive but what price aesthetics?

Quote:
Another application is for commercially supplied accessories, e.g., safety valves, gauges, etc..
Ummm ... who might still have these?

My steam engines may be somewhat fanciful (and a few totally implausable) but I like how these look. Yes, it's purely aesthetics rather than practicality or being a purist who is looking for that last bit of autheticity, but they're purty and bright and shiny and like that there. Besides, where would neo-Victorian engines be without proper plumbing?

BEst regards,

Kludge

 
 
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Old 08-22-2008, 03:23 PM   #49
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Default Re: Hardware Store Boiler

Kludge, you're a man after my own heart.

"I like gaskets anyway. I winder if cutting very shallow concentric rings on the mating surfaces so they kind of mesh together might not help them seal. Hmmm ... something to consider .."

Call em gramophone flanges here. At least in the industrial environment in which I were dragged up.
Twas my thought to make some kind of form tool for the folly upon which I have embarked, in order to seal the flanges with oiled paper gaskets.

A true gramophone flange actually has concentric grooves rather than a single spiral.
Then again, perhaps at scale, a spiral would do?
I'm looking at 3 cyl, 54 stroke, 36 bore.
Just another reason to finish the power crossfeed on the 9x20.

Slainte, Lin


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Old 08-22-2008, 03:47 PM   #50
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Default Re: Hardware Store Boiler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kludge
My steam engines may be somewhat fanciful (and a few totally implausable) but I like how these look. ...
So, when are we going to see some pictures of these engines?


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